List of Those Owed Funds for Jacket Orders Placed With Mark Moye - Aero USA

[Atticus Finch]

I hope this turns out well, but this is why I generally won't pay more for internet purchases than I would feel comfortable flushing down the toilet.

The good side of ordering stuff over the internet is that you can purchase great merchandise that you might not ever find in a local “brick a mortar” store...especially if you live in a rural area.

The bad side is...at least right now...there is no practical way to enforce most contractual obligations entered into via the internet. State civil courts generally lack personal jurisdiction over the defendant and Federal District Court lacks subject matter jurisdiction over such small contested amounts.

AF

 

[trob09]

Lucky bum.

Sorry dude. I'm hoping it all works out for you.

 

[jlanderson]

I hope this turns out well, but this is why I generally won't pay more for internet purchases than I would feel comfortable flushing down the toilet.

The good side of ordering stuff over the internet is that you can purchase great merchandise that you might not ever find in a local “brick a mortar” store...especially if you live in a rural area.

The bad side is...at least right now...there is no practical way to enforce most contractual obligations entered into via the internet. State civil courts generally lack personal jurisdiction over the defendant and Federal District Court lacks subject matter jurisdiction over such small contested amounts.

AF

I totally understand that reasoning, but it was through the Internet that I "met" two of the greatest heritage retailers in the world: Peter and Michele King of Bookster Tweed in Ross on Wye in Herefordshire, England. He's a businessman I trust implicitly, and I get the same vibe from Ken Calder and his daughter, Holly.

 

[Atticus Finch]

I totally understand that reasoning, but it was through the Internet that I "met" two of the greatest heritage retailers in the world: Peter and Michele King of Bookster Tweed in Ross on Wye in Herefordshire, England. He's a businessman I trust implicitly, and I get the same vibe from Ken Calder and his daughter, Holly.

Yeah...I spent some decent money on my Goodwear A-1, but that was not typical for me. Although I trusted John Chapman then, and I still do, the truth is he could have simply converted my money and I would have been left with little legal recourse.

People sometimes come to me asking that I open prosecutions based on fraudulent e-bay transactions. It’s tough to explain to them that, even though we have jurisdiction, there is no cost-effective way to prosecute misdemeanors and lower class felonies across state or national boundaries. Sadly, they generally just end up writing off their losses.

AF

 

[derleicaman]

Paid in full $900 end of February, 2012. Paid through ebay and paypal, so I should be covered under ebay buyer protection. Paid with my paypal balance, so no recourse on my credit card. Any idea how long a refund like this should take?
I did get an email from Mark beginning of last week how I wanted my refund, but have not heard from him since. I have gotten several nice emails from Holly.

 

[Grayland]

Paid in full $900 end of February, 2012. Paid through ebay and paypal, so I should be covered under ebay buyer protection. Paid with my paypal balance, so no recourse on my credit card. Any idea how long a refund like this should take?
I did get an email from Mark beginning of last week how I wanted my refund, but have not heard from him since. I have gotten several nice emails from Holly.

I think many of us are in the same boat. The question is: was he staying in touch to let us know we would be refunded or giving us peace of mind to allow him sweep his own finances?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Would have been nice if this thread had stayed as only a 'list' of those owed funds ...and discussion of wondering 'what happened'...and 'recourse' for these ills could have been discussed on the 'Announcement from AeroUSA thread with the rest. An uncluttered tally of those owed would have been much clearer. That's why I also suggested a 'Poll'.
Oh well
HD

 

[ButteMT61]

Would have been nice if this thread had stayed as only a 'list' of those owed funds ...and discussion of wondering 'what happened'...and 'recourse' for these ills could have been discussed on the 'Announcement from AeroUSA thread with the rest. An uncluttered tally of those owed would have been much clearer. That's why I also suggested a 'Poll'. Oh well HD

I reported the thread asking they do just that, HD. It was a good idea, and I think non-affected should keep it clean by not posting. Yeah, I know I just did...

 

[Lungomare]

FWIW, I emailed Mark last week as a friend to see if things were "OK". I did not get any reply so I guess things must be pretty bad there. Never thought I was in any way being "utilized" for promotional purposes, but it wouldn't be the first time in my life that's happened. At this point I'm pretty much done with the hobby for a while. At least the online part of it. Between this and the USPS losing a jacket I sold last month I wonder if it's not a sign to get a life...
Good luck all. I hope you get things worked out.

Hi!

I am not concerned in this affair, which in my opinion has nothing to do with Aero Scotland (the folks there do their jobs in a perfect way and I am convinced that one will hardly find so scrupulous persons anywhere in Europe - best materials, perfect maker, the best service I've ever experienced). Mark was a reseller, and he took money without the intention to order / buy the jacket at Aero's who couldn't scent this, of course). Doing this he was cheating his customers and was besmirching Aero Leather. So far we all are conforming.

But: If I pay money to a reseller and find out that he had never placed the order, I'd involve a lawyer! I don't know the laws in the USA, but in Europe I would get back my money for sure! Here in Europe legal protection insurances are quite common, otherwise the costs for a lawer might exceed the amount I am trying to get back.

And I wouldn't list my bad luck right here in a forum, neither beg paypal to help me, but get help by the law. Someone who takes money for reselling goods and even doesn't place the orders seems to engage in criminal activities, doesn't he?

Kind regards,

Johannes

 

[derleicaman]

Sorry for messing up the thread. A poll would be great! I'd be interested to know how many people are in the same boat. I'd also like to know how many folks have gotten a refund. I've heard numbers of anywhere between 60 and 80 orders on an average of $500 to over $1,000 each. That is serious money and beyond the excuse of just neglecting to place orders.

 

[jimmer_5]

January 2010, paid in full for a Cafe Racer.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Would have been nice if this thread had stayed as only a 'list' of those owed funds ...and discussion of wondering 'what happened'...and 'recourse' for these ills could have been discussed on the 'Announcement from AeroUSA thread with the rest. An uncluttered tally of those owed would have been much clearer. That's why I also suggested a 'Poll'.
Oh well
HD

Sorry..you're right.

AF

 

[Fardad]

I never want to read the word "Aero" again.

$954.10...

...placed Sept'2011 for a custom, 1-piece back Highwayman with 3" leather strap running along the bottom and a removable fur collar.

... no word or update.


*barf*.

 

[dr.velociraptor]

$954.10...

...for a custom, 1-piece back Highwayman with 3" leather strap running along the bottom and a removable fur collar.

... no word or update.


*barf*.

In all fairness you got ripped off by an independent reseller who ran his business through eBay not Aero. When you gave him money Aero gets the order from "Mark Moye" they have no idea who you are or what your order was. From what I've read Aero looks to be a real solid company making a top notch product and it would be a shame if something like this damaged them long term.

It would be like someone opening a brick and mortar store, taking deposits on custom order Wesco boots for example, and then simply one day putting a lock on the door and taking off, you would blame the store owner not Wesco Boot Company.

 

[Fardad]

In all fairness you got ripped off by an independent reseller who ran his business through eBay not Aero. When you gave him money Aero gets the order from "Mark Moye" they have no idea who you are or what your order was. From what I've read Aero looks to be a real solid company making a top notch product and it would be a shame if something like this damaged them long term.

It would be like someone opening a brick and mortar store, taking deposits on custom order Wesco boots for example, and then simply one day putting a lock on the door and taking off, you would blame the store owner not Wesco Boot Company.

The guy had Aero's bloody name for crying out loud. Aero even posted his name on their own site. Give me a break...

 

[dr.velociraptor]

The guy had Aero's bloody name for crying out loud. Aero even posted his name on their own site. Give me a break...

Agreed it was a bad idea for Aero to let him use that name, but he hoodwinked a lot of people here including you, I think Aero was also suckered on this one and caught being too trustworthy and not looking after their good name enough. You're out $800 of so, Aero has to deal with irreparable damage to their reputation which will prove much more costly to them.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Aero even posted his name on their own site. Give me a break...

We posted this to alert his customers to the situation, as it was becoming clear he wasn't contacting everyone himself, and we had no contact details for some customers, such as yourself, which is why you hadn't heard from us until we received your email this morning.

I've now replied, and hopefully we can do something to help you.

 

[cloudylemonade]

OUR OFFER TO THOSE WHO HAVE PAID IN FULL FOR A JACKET FROM MARK MOYE

Although we have no legal responsibility to help, we have no intention to leave any customer to deal with this their your own.
We will offer you a 20% discount off any Aero purchases that you might make in the future, jacket, denim jeans, footwear, tweed or knitwear, books… in fact anything on our site, new or used until we both agree that any perceived obligation had been more than fulfilled. From then on the customer will go back to regular prices but would always get preferential treatment whenever this was possible. That said everyone dealing with the factory gets the very best service we can offer.

This offer is made without prejudice and should in no way be considered as any form of admission that we have any legal responsibility, in any way, to clear up the mess made by Mark Moye trading as AeroLeatherUSA.
This is a ‘one of a kind’ offer made to customers of Mark Moye's who have paid in full for a jacket they've not received.

Some other customers may have already been made the same, similar or amended offers. The offer cannot or will not have any bearing on any offer we may make, or have already made, to any other customers of Mark Moye.

Meanwhile I urge every one of you to make every effort through any means at your disposal to get a refund from Mark Moye....his firm took your money, not our firm, he's got all of your money, and we never received a penny of it.
If you do get a part or full refund this will not affect the offer above, you deserve to keep any money you might manage to claw back and even if you get it all back we'll honour the offer made above

We will need proof of payment for our records showing the early correspondence with Mark Moye and payment record, for example Paypal receipt, credit card statement or similar.


FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PAID A DEPOSIT TO MARK MOYE

Again, we have no intention to leave you to deal with this on your own. As every situation is different, if there is anyone out there who has paid a deposit, but not discussed this with us, we’d like you to contact us. There are various ways we can help in these circumstances, but we’d like to discuss them with you directly.

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PAID MARK MOYE IN FULL FOR MORE THAN ONE JACKET

Once more, we have no intention to leave you to deal with this on your own. As every situation is different, if there is anyone out there who has paid in full for more than one jacket, but not discussed this with us, we’d like you to contact us. There are various ways we can help in these circumstances, but we’d like to discuss them with you directly.

holly@aeroleatherclothing.com

 

[Lungomare]

The guy had Aero's bloody name for crying out loud. Aero even posted his name on their own site. Give me a break...

Take a break ...

... and you'll see how great Aero is! They have absolutely nothing to do with the "trading" of M.M. in the USA.

If you buy a Porsche and the trader / retailer goes bankrupt before you get the car, would you blame the factory having produced the Porsche or the bankruptcy-dealer?

The folks at Aero's Scotland do their jobs in a perfect way, and I am convinced that one will hardly find so scrupulous persons anywhere in Europe - best materials, perfect maker, the best service I've ever experienced.

I'll never buy another leather jacket than an Aero!

Kind regards,

Johannes

 

[jlanderson]

OUR OFFER TO THOSE WHO HAVE PAID IN FULL FOR A JACKET FROM MARK MOYE ... holly@aeroleatherclothing.com

Wow. Thank you, Aero/Scotland.