Libya - Deja Vu

[dhermann1]

Maybe the bartenders may want to close this down, I don't know. But the fighting in North Africa is making me really think about the back and forth battle between the Allies and Axis forces in the 1941 -43 period. The same places, and somewhat similar pattern of battle. Spooky. I guess certain places on this earth are doomed to have the same battles fought over them over and over again.

 

[Edward]

I can't see this ending well!

All I'll say is that it will certainly be interesting to see where it goes. It was not lost on me that the political upheavals and in some cases dreadful bloodshed in parts of Eastern Europe in the 90s resulted in much of the map of that part of the world returning to something much closer to the pre-Versailles arrangement to some degree. We live in interesting times.

 

[RP McMurphy]

Interesting times, yes, but I'm cautious whenever people claim that the popular revolutions currently going on in the Middle East will result in "bottom up" democratic change. History has shown that time and time again such movements have been co-opted by the individual or party with the most political or military power. While I do hope such revolutions will result in better lives for the people of those nations (ie, no more rigged elections, multi-party states, better access to government institutions and aid), the difficulties of managing a nation often result in social and economic inequality. Without going into the deeper root causes of such turmoil (the oil economy, foreign aid and investment, class divide, and militarism), let me just say that I hope for a better future for the people of the Near East. I think that's something everyone, no matter what creed or faith they follow, can agree upon.

In terms of history, I'm actually reminded of the Spanish Civil War of the 1930's. Much like in Spain, there's apparently been an influx of foreign nationals into Libya to fight for one side or the other (though I believe it's mostly for the Loyalist side). This is interesting, however, because many of these nationals come from Sub-Saharan Africa. Kind of puts a different spin on the narrative of "Saharan divide" or "Popular Middle East Revolution."

I realize political discussion is something of a taboo subject here on the lounge, so if this post has offended anyone, I am sorry. My one real concern is for the safety and protection of non-combatants, whatever their political or social leanings. I think it's safe to say that we all wish to see the civilians of Libya kept safe during this time of upheaval.

Best wishes for everyone here on the lounge,

RP

 

[Lincsong]

It will get shut down, so I better post quick. From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli.

 

[Smithy]

Maybe the bartenders may want to close this down, I don't know. But the fighting in North Africa is making me really think about the back and forth battle between the Allies and Axis forces in the 1941 -43 period. The same places, and somewhat similar pattern of battle. Spooky. I guess certain places on this earth are doomed to have the same battles fought over them over and over again.

A LOT of that has to do with geography. Population centres, strategic strong points and fields of influence, trade routes, natural resources, etc do not really change over time. It's one of the reasons why conflicts are often fought in the same areas and even the same battlefields.

 

[John in Covina]

Maybe the bartenders may want to close this down, I don't know. But the fighting in North Africa is making me really think about the back and forth battle between the Allies and Axis forces in the 1941 -43 period. The same places, and somewhat similar pattern of battle. Spooky. I guess certain places on this earth are doomed to have the same battles fought over them over and over again.

It may be that the terrain tends to define the battle style more than the technology does for conventional warfare.

 

[John in Covina]

Interesting times, yes, but I'm cautious whenever people claim that the popular revolutions currently going on in the Middle East will result in "bottom up" democratic change. History has shown that time and time again such movements have been co-opted by the individual or party with the most political or military power. RP

That is one of my greatest concerns for the Middle East today.

 

[Pompidou]

One small difference between the revolutions of then and the revolutions of now is the smallness of the interconnected social media world. The wool of, "This is the best there is," can't be pulled over the eyes of the people. They know what the whole world has to offer, and need not settle for what's been done before. Cherry pick the world's best ideas and rewrite the slate. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but optimism isn't my strong suit, nor is it my general policy. I'll remain pessimistic and cynical till something good happens.

 

[SGT Rocket]

conflagration

What an interesting thread. It will probably get closed soon. I just hope and pray that as few people get killed or wounded as possible in this latest conflagration. Other than that, I must keep my opinions to myself (what ever they may be [huh]).

 

[Harp]

AOL featured a photo of Libyan rebels standing atop a captured
109m SP; however, even with restricted fly zones, G still has armor.
And now Syrians are taking to the street against live ammo.
Those people have guts. :eusa_clap

 

[Widebrim]

Interesting, as I was just today at a "vintage" shop, looking at a huge book produced by the Italian government (1939) for the United States, extolling the accomplishments of the Fascists. Several pages were devoted to the African colonies, and included the building and farming projects that the Italians initiated/completed in "Libia." Is Italy contributing militarily as part of the Allied force? I doubt it, but...May Libya soon be free.

 

[Widebrim]

It may be that the terrain tends to define the battle style more than the technology does for conventional warfare.

Who would have expected mounted U.S. Army Special Ops in Afghanistan? But as you wrote, the terrain does often define methodology.

 

[Tomasso]

In his prime the Colonel actually looked somewhat sane....

.As opposed to .......

 

[PADDY]

With the greatest respect I beg to differ! WHAT on Earth is wrong with this 'FASHION STATEMENT?' If it's good enough for an esteemed FL Bartender, then it's certainly fine for a Head of State - mais non??

[/QUOTE]

 

[Tomasso]

lollollollol

 

[Derek WC]

But, Paddy. He is in a desert, while you are in northern Ireland. The temperature difference!

 

[Yeps]

It will get shut down, so I better post quick. From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli.

That was my first thought too. This will probably confuse future generations. "No, no, this is not about that time, we went there before."

 

[HoosierDaddy]

With the greatest respect I beg to differ! WHAT on Earth is wrong with this 'FASHION STATEMENT?' If it's good enough for an esteemed FL Bartender, then it's certainly fine for a Head of State - mais non??

[/QUOTE]

Huh?....which one is the Bartender..?

 

[PADDY]

Mmmmm - I'm not sure myself now ...50/50 chance of getting it right though!

But the similarities are uncanny Gentlemen!

 

[Feraud]

Fred Armisen from SNL gets my vote as Quaddai look alike.