Is chivalry dead?

[LizzieMaine]

Granted. But in both cases, the "entertainment" is gawking and gaping at someone else who is considered to be in some way inferior to the audience -- generally today it's class or culturally-based rather than physically-based, but the end result is the same -- an appeal to a sense of false superiority on the part of the audience.

That being so, I think that to claim we've progressed because nobody pays a farmhand fifty cents a day anymore to dress up as the Wild Man of Borneo is to strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel. All modern culture has done is sanitize the process in such a way that it doesn't have to feel guilty about exploiting the misfortunes of others for cheap laughs.

 

[Justin B]

I rather think this thread has gone a bit off topic. Just the same, I'll add my thoughts to the mix.

Chivalry is not dead, nor can it die really. So long as there are men in the world that hold themselves to a code of conduct that shows respect for others. Men of honor have always been a minority, and always will be. Chivalry isn't about a strict set of rules. It's about doing the right thing...because it's the right thing. Chivalry is about taking responsiblity for yourself, so that you can serve others. A man cannot be forced to do this. It's something a man has to choose. I think that's the biggest problem of today. No one wants to be responsible for themselves. They'd much rather blaim someone, something else.

 

[John in Covina]

Chivalry is not dead, nor can it die really. So long as there are men in the world that hold themselves to a code of conduct that shows respect for others. Men of honor have always been a minority, and always will be. Chivalry isn't about a strict set of rules. It's about doing the right thing...because it's the right thing. Chivalry is about taking responsiblity for yourself, so that you can serve others. A man cannot be forced to do this. It's something a man has to choose. I think that's the biggest problem of today. No one wants to be responsible for themselves. They'd much rather blaim someone, something else.

Justin your comments are pretty much spot on but one point that is missing is: that the ideas of chivalry, doing the right thing and responsibility are not being taught or passed down by parents and family. As values, they have a hard time competing with the hedonism and center on self values. If you are not raised with the old polite and chivalry ideals then they are not seen as a viable or valuable system to emulate later on. In the competition of ideas they seem foolish to those that don't see them as good, meet, right and salutary.

If you were raised with them you can choose to leave them behind but if you were raised without these values chances are you are very unlikely to choose them as your guide later on. It can happen but I think it is rare.

Raise your kids up the way you want them to live, and keep in mind they are the ones that will be choosing what home for the elderly you'll spend your last days in.

 

[John in Covina]

Granted. But in both cases, the "entertainment" is gawking and gaping at someone else who is considered to be in some way inferior to the audience -- generally today it's class or culturally-based rather than physically-based, but the end result is the same -- an appeal to a sense of false superiority on the part of the audience. All modern culture has done is sanitize the process in such a way that it doesn't have to feel guilty about exploiting the misfortunes of others for cheap laughs.

Considering the aspects of laws on the books that focus on equality, the fight against racism and the education of the kids in school for tolerance you have to ask why does so much of what they learn on this seem to go in one ear and out the other. I think that there is a culture being raised today of paying lip service to great ideals and allowing ones self to not be bound by the spirit of these ideals. One can be thought of as a great humanitarian because one wrote socially conscious poetry about it but in real life one treats everyone around themselves like crap. (Good) Character is defined as doing the right thing even when no one is looking.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Civilization is merely a veneer covering the essential barbarism of humanity. The thinner the veneer, the more barbaric the culture.

 

[sheeplady]

I don't see chivalry as dead. I think it's changed, somewhat. Some of it is good, some of it is bad. Personally, if I am wearing a skirt, I can expect some male to open a door for me on the campus where I am a student. (If I am wearing pants or jeans, jeans especially, I rarely have a door opened for me). So I would assume most of the people I am encountering when this happens are below 25, most likely below 22. Somehow skirt/dress=open door. I always say thank you, and in the case where they open multiple doors for me (or the individual rushes to get the door for me) I say thank you and say "You are such a gentleman." Normally gets a big smile from the guys, because most guys are not complimented or respected for that type of behavior. I hold doors open for other women, individuals who have large loads, or people who would find it difficult to open the door themselves for whatever reason.

My father (who raised me to expect and exhibit this kind of behavior) always opened doors for ladies. One of his former female bosses yelled at him for essentially thinking women were too weak to open doors. My father raised me to believe that it was a sign of respect to do this, not a sign of ownership or weakness.

 

[Justin B]

Civilization is merely a veneer covering the essential barbarism of humanity. The thinner the veneer, the more barbaric the culture.

Oddly I read that and immediately wondered, what sort of hat I might wear with a broadsword? Because honestly, even if we fall into the dark ages I must have a proper hat.

I think most here, being like-minded all have the same mildly mysanthropic view of current society. Doesn't mean that it's right though. To paraphrase a well known movie, what we hold to be right and true is, but only from a certain point of view.

I don't look down on others because I don't wish to be looked down on. You're music isn't my style, but am I going to condem it simply because it doesn't suit my taste? Or decry your clothing because it's not something I'd wear or how I'd wear it? I don't have to like what you do, nor do you have to subscribe to my tastes. All I can do is choose to do as I decide, and set an example for others to follow or not.

I choose to do what I hold to be right and honest.

I choose to dress in a manner I think shows the sort of man I am.

I choose to speak and act in a manner that I think shows respect for myself and those around me.

That's what I believe anyway.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Civilization is merely a veneer covering the essential barbarism of humanity. The thinner the veneer, the more barbaric the culture.

Thank you, M'am. I will work these words into every jury argument I make...from this day until the day that I can no longer stand, upright, in a courtroom!

AF

 

[John in Covina]

Civilization is merely a veneer covering the essential barbarism of humanity. The thinner the veneer, the more barbaric the culture.

Human nature does not change much. All the emotions, drives and ambitions that were around during the first hunter gather groups to the Egyptians, the Romans and so on, are still in play. It is the dark side of human nature we are called to rise above. Ethics, duty and responsibility are always at war with our own selfish interests.

 

[Doublegun]

Interesting discussion. As the father of a 17-year old daughter, this is something I have become very aware of. My conclusion so far: it's a direct reflection on the attitude of the young man's parents, something I notice right away and I can tell immediately if a suitor is genuine or playing to the crowd (i.e. me). To me, personally, I believe being chivalrous is not something does, consciously. It's a part of one's character, something that one does without even thinking about it. It was the way I was raised by my parents and was expected of me by teachers K-12. It is part of who I am. As a result, we have raised our daughter to be respectful of and courteous and it has not gone un-noticed by others. In today's society, being chivalrous, courteous and respectful is not dead - more than ever it distinguishes individuals in a timeless manner.

 

[John in Covina]

Virtue is its own reward. What is gained cannot be measured in the physical.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Yet another sign of the decline of civilization is the rise of the cynical view that anyone who "does good" must have an ulterior motive. To those who hold such a view, it's impossible for anyone to do anything out of genuine concern for others -- there's just got to be an angle somewhere. And that attitude, in turn, becomes a justification for their own anti-social behavior -- "at least I'm not a fraud and a hypocrite like those guys." And it's that attitude, the attitude of swaggering self-absorbed jackasses, that has, if not killed chivalry, has at least put it in the ICU.

 

[Feraud]

And that attitude, in turn, becomes a justification for their own anti-social behavior -- "at least I'm not a fraud and a hypocrite like those guys."

In urban areas there is a high premium put on "keeping it real", which is a thin excuse for being rude, crude, and an all around boor.

 

[John in Covina]

In urban areas there is a high premium put on "keeping it real", which is a thin excuse for being rude, crude, and an all around boor.

Chris Rock has part of one of his stand up routines that it is also an excuse for ignorance.

 

[Feraud]

Yes, I think Rock also mentions the guys who would put rims on a toaster if they could.

 

[Justin B]

Chris Rock is also one of the most racist people I have ever had the misfortune of running across.

 

[John in Covina]

Chris Rock is also one of the most racist people I have ever had the misfortune of running across.

Can you expound on that?

 

[Justin B]

I could, but honestly I'd rather not. I'll leave it with that on numerous occations both public and privite he has made it clear that he dislikes any race not his own....except of course when he's "Gettin' paid".

 

[John in Covina]

I could, but honestly I'd rather not. I'll leave it with that on numerous occations both public and privite he has made it clear that he dislikes any race not his own....except of course when he's "Gettin' paid".

I hadn't heard that.

 

[Feraud]

Perhaps then it is best to not libel the guy..