Is chivalry dead?

[Otis]

It's been many years ago now but I still remember taking out a teenager who made it clear she didn't like the normal courtesies. Each time I opened a car door, restaurant door etc. she grumbled something like "I can do it" or "I'm not helpless".
Later in phone conversation, she explained that I had embarrassed her by my actions, by implying she wasn't capable.

Experiences like this cemented my resolve to look for a girl down South, where their Mommas grown 'em sweet and kind....a refreshing difference compared to those hard, cold girls from elsewhere.

 

[HudsonHawk]

It's been many years ago now but I still remember taking out a teenager who made it clear she didn't like the normal courtesies. Each time I opened a car door, restaurant door etc. she grumbled something like "I can do it" or "I'm not helpless".
Later in phone conversation, she explained that I had embarrassed her by my actions, by implying she wasn't capable.

Experiences like this cemented my resolve to look for a girl down South, where their Mommas grown 'em sweet and kind....a refreshing difference compared to those hard, cold girls from elsewhere.

I've known women (girls) like that, but they are few and far between. There will ways be people, of both sexes, who act like jerks in public. Life is too short to let it bother me.

On a side note, I made a waitress cry once when I stood up when my wife returned to the table. The waitress thought it was really sweet. For me it was just common table manners. I've noticed that standing up when a ladies arrives or leaves an area where people are sitting is one thing you don't see much of anymore. Many guys, even those who are otherwise well versed in manners, are often guilty of this.

 

[esteban68]

It's a very difficult area of discussion as it will often involve 'taboo' subjects and inflame personal and closely held beliefs.
As a 44 year old 'working class' male I have worked in many fields from engineering/construction to mental health/learning disability/forensic to fire-fighter and currently health professional in health promotion, I like to think I have a fully rounded view on life having worked with all age groups, ethnic and minority groups, classes all over the country and mainland Europe.
I was brought up mainly by my grandparents and thus have whether I accept it or not a sometimes old fashioned view on things.
I accept we should all be equal in terms of rights and opportunities but also in responsibilities.
I believe everyone should have good manners, be courteous chivalrous call it what you will the important thing is to be polite, if someone holds a door open for you just say thanks whether you are male, female or whatever you class yourself as.

When I worked in the Fire Service I saw ridiculous things happening into the realms of fantasy at times as female firefighters were given hugely unfair advantages in training and recruitment over male colleagues things that were downright dangerous for colleagues and the public alike.

In my current job around 70%+ of the workforce is female and many of the rules and regulations are developed around that workforce, in my department alone over the last 4 years all but one of the 16 female staff under 35 has been off at least once if not twice on maternity leave, this leave is not transferable to the males/fathers.
I always offer to carry heavy items bags for my colleagues male or female it's up to them if they take up the offer, it's how I was brought up and having worked in engineering for many years I am stronger than probably all of them sadly my back has suffered over the years but I still offer.

However there can be problems as recently some male colleagues in a different department are now refusing to lift heavy items stating quite honestly that they are expected to do all of the lifting simply because they are men, knowing their manager I can believe it as she was once quoted as having said she " would have no men working on her ward"!

It's no wonder we need online dating services as many people no longer know how or feel secure talking to the opposite sex for fear of accusations of sexual harassment charges.

 

[Otis]

I've known women (girls) like that, but they are few and far between. There will ways be people, of both sexes, who act like jerks in public. Life is too short to let it bother me.

Good point HH, but looking back from the standpoint of mature reflection, I'm convinced the girl in my story was a fundamentally decent person, she just had a chip on her shoulder. I hope she's happier now.

On a side note, I made a waitress cry once when I stood up when my wife returned to the table. The waitress thought it was really sweet. For me it was just common table manners. I've noticed that standing up when a ladies arrives or leaves an area where people are sitting is one thing you don't see much of anymore. Many guys, even those who are otherwise well versed in manners, are often guilty of this.

Great story! I normally think of waitresses as kind of tough but this one must have been tender-hearted. In any case you demonstrated class and made her day.
As for the 'standing' thing, you're right, it ought to be more common. To be honest, I'm surprised that women notice when a man does that. I didn't think they did. Let's keep the practice going, shall we?

 

[MikeBravo]

It's been many years ago now but I still remember taking out a teenager who made it clear she didn't like the normal courtesies. Each time I opened a car door, restaurant door etc. she grumbled something like "I can do it" or "I'm not helpless".
Later in phone conversation, she explained that I had embarrassed her by my actions, by implying she wasn't capable.

Experiences like this cemented my resolve to look for a girl down South, where their Mommas grown 'em sweet and kind....a refreshing difference compared to those hard, cold girls from elsewhere.

Please forgive me if I've read this incorrectly. It seems that she told you numerous times that she was uncomfortable with you opening doors for her etc., yet you continued to do so, even to the point of causing her embarrassment?

To me that doesn't sound very chivalrous or polite. Just one person's point of view, no offense meant.

 

[Metatron]

I think unisex courtesy is the way to go, and I'll add that it's obviously good to be 'chivalrous' to people you feel real affection for and who have earned it.
I find old fashioned chivalry towards people just because of their sex a bit sickly sweet, and many people I've met who practice it are out of touch with modern women and think themselves knights in shining armour when really it can be a bit patronising, and most women see through it.

 

[fashion frank]

It's been many years ago now but I still remember taking out a teenager who made it clear she didn't like the normal courtesies. Each time I opened a car door, restaurant door etc. she grumbled something like "I can do it" or "I'm not helpless".
Later in phone conversation, she explained that I had embarrassed her by my actions, by implying she wasn't capable.

Experiences like this cemented my resolve to look for a girl down South, where their Mommas grown 'em sweet and kind....a refreshing difference compared to those hard, cold girls from elsewhere.

I can relate to this .

I work at an ivy league institution and every year when the students return I will sooner or later see a young lady struggling to carry a heavy suitcase up three flights of stair and I will ask "do you need any help with that" ,and almost every time I will hear something like "no it's ok I got it " when in fact they don't as you see them just trying to get up one flight of stairs and not making it.

I always open the door be it house, car ,church, for my wife or any female and actually I always will hold or open the door for anyone just as a matter of good manners.

The old ways are and were around for good reason . People used to treat each other with civility but not now a days .

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Good point HH, but looking back from the standpoint of mature reflection, I'm convinced the girl in my story was a fundamentally decent person, she just had a chip on her shoulder. I hope she's happier now.

Absolutely. If a woman was being kind and courteous to me..and perhaps even going out of her way to do so...I would be the jerk to complain..even if mostly under my breath. It should be something appreciated rather than mocked..I don't care who you are.
HD

 

[AtomicEraTom]

In these parts, I'd say that most women seem to find it charming for a fella to display some sort of chivalry.

On holding doors, I will hold the door on a building (Not a vehicle) for any person, regardless of gender. It's just polite, and very commonplace here. You see men holding the door for men and women and vise versa on a regular basis.

 

[Stray Cat]

However there can be problems as recently some male colleagues in a different department are now refusing to lift heavy items stating quite honestly that they are expected to do all of the lifting simply because they are men

Hence "Men are the STRONGER sex", no?
I'm all up for letting men be.. well, men!

To be honest, I'm surprised that women notice when a man does that. I didn't think they did. Let's keep the practice going, shall we?

Oh, we notice.
We notice it MORE than many of the fellas think we do. :nod:

I work at an ivy league institution and every year when the students return I will sooner or later see a young lady struggling to carry a heavy suitcase up three flights of stair and I will ask "do you need any help with that" ,and almost every time I will hear something like "no it's ok I got it " when in fact they don't as you see them just trying to get up one flight of stairs and not making it.

I've been that girl.
Let me tell you one thing: dragging super-heavy bag 3 floors up the stairs does not make woman feel empowered.. no, no.. it makes her sweaty and tired, it makes her shoulders sore, her hands blister..
Not a Lady-like image. :nono:
So, I've given up on the "Oh, I don't need your help, sir, I can do it ON MY OWN". I can do Feminism - in moderation. But, when it comes to letting men be.. men (heavy lifting, door opening and thing-fixing included), I say with a smile: "Please do, sir". :yo:

 

[fashion frank]

Hence "Men are the STRONGER sex", no?
I'm all up for letting men be.. well, men!


Oh, we notice.
We notice it MORE than many of the fellas think we do. :nod:


I've been that girl.
Let me tell you one thing: dragging super-heavy bag 3 floors up the stairs does not make woman feel empowered.. no, no.. it makes her sweaty and tired, it makes her shoulders sore, her hands blister..
Not a Lady-like image. :nono:
So, I've given up on the "Oh, I don't need your help, sir, I can do it ON MY OWN". I can do Feminism - in moderation. But, when it comes to letting men be.. men (heavy lifting, door opening and thing-fixing included), I say with a smile: "Please do, sir". :yo:

Yea , see you totally understand I felt bad for the young lady and was just trying to be a gentleman and help her but women's lib. has taken care of that ??

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[Stray Cat]

Yea , see you totally understand I felt bad for the young lady and was just trying to be a gentleman and help her but women's lib. has taken care of that ??

Neo-feminism.. something went wrong there. Me, I prefer letting a man be the gentleman (because, that is why it’s being done). Not that my muscles are not strong enough to pull the weight, but because it’s a matter of common curtesy - a man offers to assist (in a gentleman-like manner), so it is on me to behave acordingly and LET HIM HELP.
This neo-feminism found a way to make women rude, when they declain politeness, isn’t it so?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Neo-feminism.. something went wrong there. Me, I prefer letting a man be the gentleman (because, that is why it’s being done). Not that my muscles are not strong enough to pull the weight, but because it’s a matter of common curtesy - a man offers to assist (in a gentleman-like manner), so it is on me to behave acordingly and LET HIM HELP.
This neo-feminism found a way to make women rude, when they declain politeness, isn’t it so?

Yes

 

[Stray Cat]

Yes

:nod:

One thing:
"A true gentleman will always help a lady with her coat."
Why is it that they mostly don't do it any more?! [huh]
(I do need help with my coat...)

 

[Stanley Doble]

If you say "chivalry is dead" today most people will think you mean your Chevrolet broke down.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Well, when my car broke down last week a couple of biker-type guys who happened to be passing by helped me push it most of the way home. If there's any such things as knights in the modern era, they'd be bikers. They might not know which fork to use or how to sniff the cork of a wine bottle, but I'll take their kind of chivalry any day of the week.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Bikers are some of the nicest and most helpful people I've ever met.

Well, when my car broke down last week a couple of biker-type guys who happened to be passing by helped me push it most of the way home. If there's any such things as knights in the modern era, they'd be bikers. They might not know which fork to use or how to sniff the cork of a wine bottle, but I'll take their kind of chivalry any day of the week.

 

[GHT]

It does bug me though, when people (men and women) do not even acknowledge a courtesy - such as holding a door open. That happens all too often. Plus if women are going to be as obnoxious and agressive as men they largely forgo any extra consideration IMHO. That said, I try to be gentlemanly towards women whereever possible

You are right on the button Sir. A while ago, whilst out shopping, I saw a lady, laden down with her purchases, trying to open the door to an indoor shopping mall, with her backside. I could almost hear my mother's voice. "******, are you going to open that door for the lady? Yes Mum. "Allow me, Ma'am," I said, with a smile, only to get the sternest rebuke. "I'm not incompetent you know, I can manage." said the woman for whom, my late mother's voice, in my head, prompted me to offer help. I felt that sharp sting of rejection, perhaps it was presumptious of me to expect a smile and a breathless, "Thank you very much." But in my moment of rejection, my late mother's voice came back. "My mother taught me," I said, rather curtly, "that in my life, many people would enter and leave, at very short notice. I had but a split second to make an impression." "As a small boy, her philosophy went right over my head, I just wanted to go out and play." "It wasn't because you were female, nor was it for any other reason, other than you were having a difficult time opening that door." I explained. We stood there in locked eye contact for what seemed an age, but it was probably less than a couple of seconds, when she finally said: "Wise woman, your Mum." Turned on her heel, and walked away. No thank you, no apology. But I have to say, as I went on my way, I felt like I was nine years old again, as I whispered a quiet: "Thanks Mum."

 

[cpdv]

You are right on the button Sir. A while ago, whilst out shopping, I saw a lady, laden down with her purchases, trying to open the door to an indoor shopping mall, with her backside. I could almost hear my mother's voice. "******, are you going to open that door for the lady? Yes Mum. "Allow me, Ma'am," I said, with a smile, only to get the sternest rebuke. "I'm not incompetent you know, I can manage." said the woman for whom, my late mother's voice, in my head, prompted me to offer help. I felt that sharp sting of rejection, perhaps it was presumptious of me to expect a smile and a breathless, "Thank you very much." But in my moment of rejection, my late mother's voice came back. "My mother taught me," I said, rather curtly, "that in my life, many people would enter and leave, at very short notice. I had but a split second to make an impression." "As a small boy, her philosophy went right over my head, I just wanted to go out and play." "It wasn't because you were female, nor was it for any other reason, other than you were having a difficult time opening that door." I explained. We stood there in locked eye contact for what seemed an age, but it was probably less than a couple of seconds, when she finally said: "Wise woman, your Mum." Turned on her heel, and walked away. No thank you, no apology. But I have to say, as I went on my way, I felt like I was nine years old again, as I whispered a quiet: "Thanks Mum."

Maybe it's just me but it sounds like she was being sarcastic and could care less about your mother. Thats just me though. I've had plenty of people not say a word while I hold the door for them. Usually i'll just say your welcome and continue on my way. Perhaps it's because i'm a Pisces and I live in a reality of my choosing I just refuse to acknowledge that its not the 20s-30s anymore and true to form I try and play my character as best I can and doors are held open, I stand when women stand up or enter the room I even tip my hat to cars when they wait for me in at the crosswalk. I wear dinner jackets after 6pm if I am going out. (if you knew me It would I make it seem like the most natural thing to wear to a small club.) I once ran into a friend of mine from work while out at lunch and she has daughters my age more or less and apparently I shocked the hell out of them when the man in the brown 30s pinstripe suit holding a strawboater stood up when they left. I wont hold anyone to what I think is appropriate but I just do my own thing and it almost always gets a positive reaction.

 

[lewisskimonster]

I echo your sentiments. All too often, I have held a door open for a woman, and they just walk by like it was expected, without a courteous thank you. More than once I've then said "your welcome".