Is chivalry dead?

[HoosierDaddy]

Well possibly rather than worrying so much about what may now be so offensive to some women..us men should go with what we deem as respectful regardless of the possible negative reaction. I'm not too keen about trying to tiptoe around these extreme sensitivities and keep up to date figuring it all out. It's either worth the effort being polite with some appreciation...or letting chivalry go ahead and die because you just can't please everyone..and now maybe only the very few. [huh]
HD

 

[Feraud]

I had a good friend in high school (the early '80s) who believed in treating every female like a lady. On dates he insisted on opening every door (including car doors), pulling their chair out for them, ordering for them in restaurants, and generally tending to their every need. Most of the girls he went out with him seemed genuinely creeped out by his behavior and he rarely got a second date. That is till he eventually found one who like it, and married her.

It sounds like your friend got the one good one in the bunch!
I'll bet all those girls who were "creeped out" by a guy treating them with respect wonder at some point why they cannot find a man to treat them kindly... :eusa_doh:

 

[Matt Crunk]

It sounds like your friend got the one good one in the bunch!
I'll bet all those girls who were "creeped out" by a guy treating them with respect wonder at some point why they cannot find a man to treat them kindly... :eusa_doh:

She's a bit stuffy for my tastes, but I guess they were a good fit, as I believe they are still married to this day (almost 30 years later). He's now a Methodist minister.

 

[HudsonHawk]

The only problem with "Miss" is that it can very easily come across as condescending -- there are a lot of people, especially upper-middle-class people, who'll use "Miss" in a patronizing way to refer to any woman in a "service" position, in the same manner as calling an adult male "Boy." I've had people years younger than me give me "Miss" in a manner that made it sound like they were addressing a cocker spaniel, and I don't like it one bit.

A few years ago, my group at work got a new general manager...a woman in her mid-40's, well qualified with 25-years experience, but looked much younger...could probably pass for 30 in certain circles. I took her out to the oilfield one day for a tour, and the old roughnecks and roustabouts weren't quite sure what to make of her. I tried explaining that she was my boss, ergo their boss's boss's boss, but they seemed to look like, well cocker spaniels contemplating nuclear physics. One of them called her "little lady". She was far more tolerant than she had to be, and I just shook my head.

 

[Otis]

Just for the sake of clarity -

For you ladies who prefer to be called "Miss", does this apply regardless of age or marital status?

I can't easily see addressing one of my peers (+/-50) as "Miss" when she's probably a happily married grandmother.

 

[Stray Cat]

I'm not too keen about trying to tiptoe around these extreme sensitivities and keep up to date figuring it all out. It's either worth the effort being polite with some appreciation...or letting chivalry go ahead and die because you just can't please everyone..and now maybe only the very few.

And they used to say "do it effortlessly" :doh:
That one no longer stands, because:
1. you have to mind no to be offensive on the "madam" vs "miss" matter
2. you have to guess does the lady in question play Feminist now
3. you have to put up with "what's his problem" from the young(er) generations who are yet to (hopefully) merge into the world of Being Polite

I tried explaining that she was my boss, ergo their boss's boss's boss, but they seemed to look like, well cocker spaniels contemplating nuclear physics. One of them called her "little lady".

Oh, the infamous name calling.
How I love that one - "Here, this GIRLY will show you the way"
Who?
Me?
Girly?! Nice one, boss.. that'll help me get respect. eace:

Just for the sake of clarity -

For you ladies who prefer to be called "Miss", does this apply regardless of age or marital status?

See above:
You can call me Madam, or Miss, or just by my name.. as long as you stay away from calling me "girly" when I'm clearly pass THAT age.

 

[LizzieMaine]

"Miss" or "Madam" or "Ma'am" is all the same to me, as long as it's preceded by "Right away."

 

[angeljenny]

The only problem with "Miss" is that it can very easily come across as condescending -- there are a lot of people, especially upper-middle-class people, who'll use "Miss" in a patronizing way to refer to any woman in a "service" position, in the same manner as calling an adult male "Boy." I've had people years younger than me give me "Miss" in a manner that made it sound like they were addressing a cocker spaniel, and I don't like it one bit.

I get called "Miss" and it doesn't bother me.

Ma'am isn't really common over here. At least I don't hear it at all frequently. If you aren't addressed as "Miss" generally you will be addressed as "Love" which I like less.
It is easier with men! "Sir" tends to suit most situations.

 

[sheeplady]

The only problem with "Miss" is that it can very easily come across as condescending -- there are a lot of people, especially upper-middle-class people, who'll use "Miss" in a patronizing way to refer to any woman in a "service" position, in the same manner as calling an adult male "Boy." I've had people years younger than me give me "Miss" in a manner that made it sound like they were addressing a cocker spaniel, and I don't like it one bit.

Anything can be made condescending based upon tone. Using the term "boy" to address a grown man is not only disrespectful no matter the instance (especially to a stranger), it also can be very very racist.

 

[MikeBravo]

And they used to say "do it effortlessly"
That one no longer stands, because:
1. you have to mind no to be offensive on the "madam" vs "miss" matter
2. you have to guess does the lady in question play Feminist now
3. you have to put up with "what's his problem" from the young(er) generations who are yet to (hopefully) merge into the world of Being Polite

My point in my earlier post (page 31) is that is does still stand. It should be done without being announced, with a minimum of fuss and without expectation of thanks or even acknowledgement.

If this basic kindness (indeed, one of these "random acts of kindness" we hear so much about) is met with rudeness then a gentleman will simply say "My apologies, I meant no offence" and be on his way.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I've always thought that using Ma'am was a safe term, being respectful and polite.

I reserve miss (always followed by their first name) for whatever gal I'm dating and a few close female friends. I've called my friend Sara 'Miss Sara' for many years, now.

 

[Stray Cat]

My point in my earlier post (page 31) is that is does still stand. It should be done without being announced, with a minimum of fuss and without expectation of thanks or even acknowledgement.

I too, believe that is the only way to do, Mike.

a gentleman will simply say "My apologies, I meant no offence" and be on his way.

Yes.
I my wolrd, that IS how it's done.
Now, let us remember that we are (Alas!) in the 21st century. [huh]

I've always thought that using Ma'am was a safe term, being respectful and polite.

"Madam" truly is safe and respectable thing to say. All those women who disagree should think again - it they are NOT in "madam"department, what are they? lol

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I think it carries a stigma, here. Some folks hear the word madam and think of a woman running a house of ill repute.

"Madam" truly is safe and respectable thing to say. All those women who disagree should think again - it they are NOT in "madam"department, what are they? lol

 

[Stray Cat]

I think it carries a stigma, here. Some folks hear the word madam and think of a woman running a house of ill repute.

Well now, Tom.. you can’t please everyone.
"Madam" is still better than being called "Girly" any day. :nod:

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Girly is reserved for my baby sister lol

Well now, Tom.. you can’t please everyone.
"Madam" is still better than being called "Girly" any day. :nod:

 

[VintageBee]

May I ask a rather serious question please?
What do you call an elderly lady whose husband has recently committed suicide?
Our dearest neighbor who Ive called Mrs. B for almost 40 years (and taught my children and grandson to call her this) has recently become a widow, her husband commuting suicide a few months ago. Mr. Gene was much loved in our house and let us gather in his orchard as if it were our own. We watched out for poachers and trespassers for him and took care of the property like our own. Is it still proper to call her Mrs. B...I was thinking maybe I should call her Miss Jeannie instead? She really hasn't full terms with his suicide and goes about pretty much like nothing's changed. While it may seem a mute point to concern myself with this, your discussion gave me pause to ask your opinions on the matter
Thank you

 

[sheeplady]

It should be Mrs. B. Most widows I've met still use Mrs. She's used that title for a long long time.

Her husband's death didn't change her name or your relationship with her.

 

[Stray Cat]

Her husband's death didn't change her name or your relationship with her.

I agree. :nod:
Unless she, herself, informs you to call her otherwise, I'd stick to calling her Mrs. B.

 

[VintageBee]

Thank you sheeplady and Stray Cat...
That's what I thought but I guess I'm still feeling the oddness of not seeing Mr. Gene each day

 

[MikeBravo]

When I was young my uncle was killed in a workplace accident. He was hardly spoken of after that, I suppose to spare my aunt's feelings. It was really sad as my cousins (aged 12, 10 and 18 months old at the time) needed to hear about him and know how loved he was by all the extended family.

My advise? Don't change how you relate to her or what you call her. Don't worry about talking about her husband, though maybe let her start the conversation at first. Suicide has a stigma about it which can be devastating for the family on top of losing a loved one.