I need a pair of Breeks/Plus Twos/Plus Fours/Knickers?

[Abraham]

I need a pair of Breeks/Plus Twos/PlusFours/Knickers. I know they're not all the same thing but varying sources call such trousers different things when the actual differences are variable and quite trivial.

In simpler terms as an adult male I need some short trousers to wear at my gun/hunt club where shorts/trunks are no longer allowed. I have three questions.

First, which color/pattern/material is the most traditional/conservative for such trousers? I will be pairing them with non-traditional tops and hats but I would like the trousers to be very traditional/conservative. The sort that would be allowed and appreciated at the Holland and Holland Shooting Grounds.

Second, what color socks/stockings are the most traditional/conservative?

Finally while not traditional, can I wear hiking boots with breeks and stockings without looking like a yahoo? Thanks!

 

[Stanley Doble]

For hunting, tweeds in grays, browns, and greens would be appropriate. Hiking boots with breeks and plain wool stockings would be very traditional, the stockings should be chosen to go with the breeks. For example if the trousers were gray or brown with some green in them you could wear dark green stockings to pick up the green. Avoid matching the trousers to the stockings too closely.

Plus fours in loud colors and patterns with Argyle stockings would be for golfing in a P G Wodehouse novel.

 

[Two Types]

I wouldn't describe the differences as trivial. The volume of a pair of plus-4s is significantly different to the cut of a pair of breeks (which have little or no over-hang beneath the knees and are traditionally narrower on the leg).
In terms of colour, one should take into consideration the terrain they are being used in. I believe that traditionally the colour choice was a form of camoflage. Thus, if hunting in a dusty dry area, lighter brown might be more appropriate - whilst darker greens and browns might be more suited to the highlands of Scotland.
I agree that hiking boots are appropriate and some contrast between socks and trousers would be ideal.

 

[Abraham]

For hunting, tweeds in grays, browns, and greens would be appropriate. Hiking boots with breeks and plain wool stockings would be very traditional, the stockings should be chosen to go with the breeks. For example if the trousers were gray or brown with some green in them you could wear dark green stockings to pick up the green. Avoid matching the trousers to the stockings too closely.

Plus fours in loud colors and patterns with Argyle stockings would be for golfing in a P G Wodehouse novel.

Thanks for the input. I'm not much for browns so I would have to go with a grey or dark green. Any idea which is more traditional?

 

[Abraham]

I forgot to ask...

Are garter ties (I would never wear loud ones as shown below) considered to be in good taste or are they ostentatious/silly?

​

Also are sgian-dubhs (small knives) ever tucked into one's hosiery in good taste or are they limited to those wearing kilts? Thanks again!

 

[Edward]

Two Types is quite right about the tweed traditionally being chosen for the terrain in which one is to be hunting (much the same principle as the original great kilt, pre-Highland Clearances, not the tartan smaller kilts invented by Victorian Anglo-Scots) - see the descriptions of the tweeds on offer at Bob Parratt, for example:

http://www.bobparratt.co.uk/breeks-c2x13001710

http://www.bobparratt.co.uk/plus-fours-c2x13002277

You'd have to figure out if it's worth it to import from these guys, but I know a lot of folks who rave about them. The cut is very traditional (it has something of the 'Provincial School Headmaster circa 1952' about it to my eye), and they are reported to be very hard wearing (mind you, at that price, it's worth a punt...). FWIW, if you decided to do it "right", you could have the jacket and waistcoat to go with your breeks or plus fours for USD320-350 the lot, before shipping. Once I've lost a little weight, I'm going to buy myself the full four pieces (plus a spare pair of trews), and see how I get on. If it works for me, I could see picking up a set of each of the tweeds they offer.

To my eye, breeks, being shorter and neater-fitting, have a much more modern look to them, which is in part why I prefer plus fours.

I forgot to ask...

Are garter ties (I would never wear loud ones as shown below) considered to be in good taste or are they ostentatious/silly?

View attachment 18516​

I am given to understand through a friend in the shooting business that these are still very much common practice on English shoots, though I suspect some of the very loudest options are a bit 'city boy playing dress up'.

Also are sgian-dubhs (small knives) ever tucked into one's hosiery in good taste or are they limited to those wearing kilts? Thanks again!

Never with tweeds. They're traditional as part of what we now know, post-Victoriana, as Highland Dress, but they've never been part of any other dress code. Frankly, the average sgian dubhs would be worse than useless on a hunt anyhow; purely an item of dress-wear these days, they serve better as a letter opener than an actual knife.

 

[Abraham]

Two Types is quite right about the tweed traditionally being chosen for the terrain in which one is to be hunting (much the same principle as the original great kilt, pre-Highland Clearances, not the tartan smaller kilts invented by Victorian Anglo-Scots) - see the descriptions of the tweeds on offer at Bob Parratt, for example:

http://www.bobparratt.co.uk/plus-fours-c2x13002277

You'd have to figure out if it's worth it to import from these guys, but I know a lot of folks who rave about them. The cut is very traditional (it has something of the 'Provincial School Headmaster circa 1952' about it to my eye), and they are reported to be very hard wearing (mind you, at that price, it's worth a punt...). FWIW, if you decided to do it "right", you could have the jacket and waistcoat to go with your breeks or plus fours for USD320-350 the lot, before shipping. Once I've lost a little weight, I'm going to buy myself the full four pieces (plus a spare pair of trews), and see how I get on. If it works for me, I could see picking up a set of each of the tweeds they offer.

To my eye, breeks, being shorter and neater-fitting, have a much more modern look to them, which is in part why I prefer plus fours.




I am given to understand through a friend in the shooting business that these are still very much common practice on English shoots, though I suspect some of the very loudest options are a bit 'city boy playing dress up'.



Never with tweeds. They're traditional as part of what we now know, post-Victoriana, as Highland Dress, but they've never been part of any other dress code. Frankly, the average sgian dubhs would be worse than useless on a hunt anyhow; purely an item of dress-wear these days, they serve better as a letter opener than an actual knife.

Thanks for your very thoughtful reply. I might go with some plus fours too if they indeed look more traditional. The jacket and waistcoat are very cool, but I'll be pushing the "social limits" with just the trousers/hose/garter ties where I will be using them.

I'm curious about something. When a proper old school British hunter outfits in matching trousers/waistcoat/jacket, do they also choose a hat made of matching fabric? Thanks again for your help.

 

[Stanley Doble]

I think you are talking about the Norfolk jacket or similar. A matching cap would be too much, if you mean have one made of the same fabric as the suit.

 

[Edward]

It can be done - indeed, most of the high-end tweed tailors (both m2m and bespoke) do offer this as an option. It's a matter of personal taste whether it's overkill or not, though. For me, it would depend on the tweed... and possibly also the cut of the cap. I wouldn't bother if it was a small, close-fitting modern style flat cap, but something like a Cordova in a wide, twenties or early thirties style, why not? My inclination would be that if it's not too much of an outlay, I'd go for it, then you've got the set and can mix and match as appropriate. I usually prefer complementary over matching, but matching would be great with something like a Donegal tweed with the less bold patterns, imo.

 

[Hothir]

I wear plus fours almost every day. I made my own and I used a few tweeds and corduroys. The garter ties are great, they aren't overkill and are pretty much necessary. I wear kilts as well so I have a collection of hose and garters. I get mine from New House Highland which is the NA distributor for House of Cheviot.

http://www.newhousehighland.com/

 

[Abraham]

I wear plus fours almost every day. I made my own and I used a few tweeds and corduroys. The garter ties are great, they aren't overkill and are pretty much necessary. I wear kilts as well so I have a collection of hose and garters. I get mine from New House Highland which is the NA distributor for House of Cheviot.

http://www.newhousehighland.com/

Thanks very much for the information.

 

[Abraham]

Are "moleskin" (what we Americanos would call "heavy khaki") fabric breeks fairly traditional?

 

[Stanley Doble]

Very traditional, worn by manual labourers in the 19th century. Leather was popular too. Leather was said to wear forever, and look elegant after that.

 

[galopede]

Wish I could find a pair of moleskin breeks in black for my morris kit! I have had a pair of cut down black jeans for years made by a seamstress friend that are getting a bit tatty these days! They seem to have shrunk a little since I got them years ago too...

I love moleskin but they only seem to come in greens.

Gareth

 

[Two Types]

Spencers will make black moleskin breeks.

 

[galopede]

Spencers will make black moleskin breeks.

So they do! A bit pricy though. Have to start saving before my current cut down jeans shrink any more!

Gareth

 

[Two Types]

Pricey maybe, but they'll be hardwearing and last you forever.

 

[BR Gordon]

I'm getting a pair of plus two trousers made and I need information. Can someone give me an idea of the trousers leg circumference, at the knee, to get the proper drape for plus twos? Would you need the knee diameter plus 2" each side, or something less?