How to be a Hepburn in a Hilton World

[cherry lips]

Life is not a dress rehearsal and to stay in a loveless (or perhaps even violent) marriage just so you can say you are still married and stuck it out makes no sense whatsoever.

:eusa_clap I'd rather seek the pleasure of my heart than keep up appearances.

 

[Heather]

I don't think, whatever it's worth, that the point of the book under discussion is necessarily to hold up any particular celebrity as a specific role model, so is there really any need to dissect every action, positive or negative, that either of the Hepburns may have committed? To do so misses the real point, I think - - that whatever one may think of Kate or Audrey personally, one would have to agree that they lived their lives with *adult dignity*, which is something sadly lacking in the current crop of party-hearty carousers you see in the tabloids.

As far as I can see, that's the whole point of the "Hepburn vs. Hilton" comparison, not should-you-or-shouldn't-you-have-premarital-sex. People are entitled to their own views on that question, and are entitled to make whatever decision on that subject that they feel is right, without being personally attacked or mocked from either side.

exactly!!

 

[Cody Pendant]

I don't think, whatever it's worth, that the point of the book under discussion is necessarily to hold up any particular celebrity as a specific role model, so is there really any need to dissect every action, positive or negative, that either of the Hepburns may have committed? To do so misses the real point, I think - - that whatever one may think of Kate or Audrey personally, one would have to agree that they lived their lives with *adult dignity*, which is something sadly lacking in the current crop of party-hearty carousers you see in the tabloids.

As far as I can see, that's the whole point of the "Hepburn vs. Hilton" comparison, not should-you-or-shouldn't-you-have-premarital-sex. People are entitled to their own views on that question, and are entitled to make whatever decision on that subject that they feel is right, without being personally attacked or mocked from either side.

Actually that is the point, holding up the particular Celebrity as role model.
No, I do not think that they lived their lives with *adult dignity* as you say.
Can't see much difference between her / them or Paris.
Both were the object of scandal and in the tabloids in their respective days.
The book is about the moral behavior of girls today.

Heres a review by Michell Van Loon:

" ...is the kind of advice book most every generation needs. Unfortunately, the people who most need Jordan Christy's advice - the skanky girls who use Paris/Britney/Kardashians as role models - would probably never pick up this breezy book. But for young women trying to figure out how to navigate a world where immodesty and aggressive sexual behavior rules, Christy's smart, sweet book of advice is like pep talk from someone who is channeling a combo of Miss Manners, your wise grandmother, and yes, Audrey Hepburn."

Does one not consider Miss Hepburn's actual behavior off screen any different than the behavior of the above mentioned "skanky girls" today. Odd to me you many think that way.

Your second statement is also odd to me. No one seems to have a issue with the adultery part of my observation, but the pre-marital part. Humm.
No attacks or mocks were issued by me dear, however it looks to be that I am "MOCKED" as you say and my views made fun of and you have no comment for them. Humm.

I am simply commenting on the books in question. I feel that I am directly on target with the subject at hand presented by the book. I did not negate anyones views at all. Why does it bother you that others (me) have a different view than you.

That's what discussion is, if we all agreed, all conversations would be very short and uninteresting indeed.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Actually that is the point, holding up the particular Celebrity as role model.
No, I do not think that they lived their lives with *adult dignity* as you say.
Can't see much difference between her / them or Paris.
Both were the object of scandal and in the tabloids in their respective days.

Ah. I must've missed those issues where Kate was blind-staggering out of the Trocadero with no underpants on. Or where Audrey got hammered every night while trawling nightclubs, shaved her head for the Pathe News cameras, and had her children taken away from her.

Clearly, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

Your second statement is also odd to me. No one seems to have a issue with the adultery part of my observation, but the pre-marital part. Humm. No attacks or mocks were issued by me dear, however it looks to be that I am "MOCKED" as you say and my views made fun of and you have no comment for them. Humm.

Actually, I was trying to protect people who might *agree* with you and who might be afraid to speak up for fear of being shouted down. We welcome all views in the PR, but we don't welcome trolling. Any more combative posts from you, dear, and you'll be carrying your backside out the door.

 

[Paisley]

The book sounds like it should have been two (or more) books. As others on the FL have noted, style and behavior don't have much to do with one another.

 

[C-dot]

Thanks for answering.

Second (and I find halliarious)....YOU are the one fixated, you commented twice and asked what I meant. I simply answered. Doesn't bother me a bit.
Thanks for your time.
nuf said

Welcome to the Powder Room, a place where the ladies have discussions. Allow me to introduce you to the title of the book, A Hepburn in a Hilton World, which is directed toward women.

Both Kate and Audrey were classy women, especially when compared to Paris Hilton - 'nuff said.

 

[cecil]

And Hadley H. and Cecil: As this is a thread about books about the morals of “STARS” as role models with guidelines for young ladies, as recommended reading for the pubescent child, consider the following:
Your personal convictions aside, so please don’t take this as an affront to you personally;
Are you stating or indicating that you would recommend to your daughter or others daughters that she / they should read these books and do you recommend that she / they engage in adultery, fornication, pre-marital sex or what ever euphemisms you would choose? As a means to stardom and success? Personal fulfillment? For what reason do you recommend the above choices? And yes the word and the deed are still around.

Break served!

Sure, if she wanted! I'm a practising fan of premarital sex myself so it would be a mite hypocritical to tell her not to. As for this Hepburns (both of them ) on the casting couch, I've read a fair bit about Katharine and have not come up against any evidence that supports this. I know that she did have personal affairs/flings with co-stars, but she was also a great actress and a very driven woman. I think we would be doing Kate Hep a grave disservice if we assumed that she only engaged in sexual relationships with people to serve her own ends. It is my belief that she, like alot of fornicators, did it for fun.

I would not recommend said choices per se, I would recommend said hypothetical daughter to make her own, with parental guidance and support.

 

[cecil]

Oh, Christy, that's the one! I'm so grateful you were able to decipher my mumblings - I had the book years ago and have lost my copy and couldn't remember the right name.

Yes, light-hearted, that's why I like it. As guides go I like that style more than the very dourly prim ones that talk down.

Ah, excellent! This sounds like the one for me. I really did enjoy the Kate Hep one I mentioned though, everyone should read it!

Amazon link for "Bombshell manual of style"

http://www.amazon.com/Bombshell-Manual-Style-Laren-Stover/dp/0786866942

 

[miss_elise]

given my druthers, i'druther have my hypothetical teenage daughter acting like either of the Hepburns, than acting like Paris Hilton.

 

[cecil]

given my druthers, i'druther have my hypothetical teenage daughter acting like either of the Hepburns, than acting like Paris Hilton.

Amen!


Oh and I found this book on amazon too. Has anyone here read it? The reviews sound great!

http://www.amazon.com/Better-than-Beauty-Guide-Charm/dp/0811834514/ref=pd_sim_b_1

 

[LizzieMaine]

Ok, everyone's had their fun with Mr. Cody, and everyone's made their point, so that's going to be the end of it. Stay on topic -- the topic is the book cited in the original post and how it relates to young women today, not Cody Pendant's pronouncements or one's personal sex life. Don't make me start washing peoples' mouths out with soap, now -- I use Fels-Naptha for that, too, not that sissy Lifebuoy stuff.

 

[C-dot]

Ok, everyone's had their fun with Mr. Cody, and everyone's made their point, so that's going to be the end of it. Stay on topic, and don't make me start washing peoples' mouths out with soap. I use Fels-Naptha for that, too, not that sissy Lifebuoy stuff.

Oh dear! Lifebuoy made little Ralphie go blind in A Christmas Story... I wonder what Fels-Naptha would do!

Back on topic, Amazon.ca recommended The Gospel According to Coco Chanel to me when I looked up our book in question. I definitely want to buy this!

 

[Heather]

Is that the soap in Christmas story? I'll have to pay closer attention the next time I watch it(which just happens to be this weekend hehe)!

I saw the coco book too. I want!

 

[cecil]

Interesting article

Found this article today. It's a few years old but it's interesting and relevant. I think the second page is riddled with rhetoric and I don't necessarily agree with the article (or even the title), but it makes some interesting and different points.

http://www.nerve.com/personalessays/calhoun/newprudishness/index.asp?page=1

 

[LizzieMaine]

Found this article today. It's a few years old but it's interesting and relevant. I think the second page is riddled with rhetoric and I don't necessarily agree with the article (or even the title), but it makes some interesting and different points.

Interesting peek into a mindset that's always been hard for me to grasp -- I guess I'm just a product of a very different culture. What the author seems to think is just fine comes across to me as nothing more than a very genericized, mass-produced, marketing-driven, beer-commercial frat-boy idea of what's "sexy." If I had a daughter I think I'd want encourage her to aim a bit higher than that -- which seems to be the thrust of the various books under discussion in this thread.

(And I'm definitely not a "neo-prude." I was saying this stuff about 70s style mass-produced market-driven "sexiness" when I was in high school thirty years ago.)

 

[Paisley]

Found this article today. It's a few years old but it's interesting and relevant. I think the second page is riddled with rhetoric and I don't necessarily agree with the article (or even the title), but it makes some interesting and different points.

http://www.nerve.com/personalessays/calhoun/newprudishness/index.asp?page=1

Maybe the fact that the author and her friends see porn and raunchiness as part of the furniture is a sign that they're awash in both. Were they to shut it all off as much as possible for a month or two, they might have a different perspective.

It's like people who never turn down the volume on their music and think the neighbors are unreasonable to complain, and wonder why anyone still listens to classical music.

 

[cecil]

Yeah, to me it just sounded...wrong. I suppose she's right when she said that teenage girls have always "gone wild", but in my mother's generation (baby boomer) 'going wild' entailed teasing and spraying your hair into a bouffant on the train because mum wouldn't allow it, or throwing your jeans with a (gasp!) fly in the front over the neighbour's fence so that you could change into them on your way to the bus stop, because Dad would kill you if he knew you owned them let alone tried to leave the house in them. lol

I know that things were pretty raunchy pre-hays code but I don't recall any mention of Joan Crawford flashing the paps with no knickers on at the "Our Dancing Daughters" premiere after party. I think the authors view of the past being as oversexed as this generation is as skewed as saying that everyone back then was chaste and virtuous. Just thought it was worth reading.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think context is key in understanding how such things were viewed in the past -- there was plenty of salaciousness in the 20s, but it had a strong counterbalance in the popular culture of the time -- if you read the Saturday Evening Post or the Ladies Home Journal from, say, 1927, you'd be hard pressed to find any indication that such a thing as flapperism ever existed, except in the occasional cartoon or editorial tsk-tsking at it. The outrageous was outrageous then precisely because it *wasn't* mainstream -- the flappers *were* truly rebels seeking their own sort of liberation. But today, the outrageous *is* the mainstream, which, really, makes it less about being a rebel and finding one's own way than it is about doing what every other mall-crawling kid is doing.

That's the thing I admire about the so-called "modesty movement." Sure, there's people who try to turn it to religious/sanctimonious ends, but there's also a lot of thinking gals in it who see "going mild" as the ultimate act of rebellion against an oppressive culture.

 

[Fletch]

One thing all this reminds us of is that cheating used to be men's territory. Kate couldn't have done it without being blackballed - surely one reason she stayed unmarried. By Audrey's time the morés were a bit more continental, and her career survived.

Leslie Caron, OTOH, broke the rules a few years earlier (extramarital thing with Warren Beatty - even worse, a younger man!) and basically saw her reputation and career plowed under.

 

[MissAmelina]

Yeah, to me it just sounded...wrong. I suppose she's right when she said that teenage girls have always "gone wild", but in my mother's generation (baby boomer) 'going wild' entailed teasing and spraying your hair into a bouffant on the train because mum wouldn't allow it, or throwing your jeans with a (gasp!) fly in the front over the neighbour's fence so that you could change into them on your way to the bus stop, because Dad would kill you if he knew you owned them let alone tried to leave the house in them. lol

Exactly....HOWEVER, my mom told me that the night she and her sorority sisters went to see "The Graduate" they were so drunk, when they woke up in the morning their car was on the Alpha Chi Omega lawn with all the doors open and the keys still in the ignition. And this was major MAJOR scandal at the time. She still gets embarrassed talking about it.
And what's weird, is this story is really funny to me....even though drunk driving is nothing to laugh about. Perhaps it is because I know it was not the norm for her...or for alot of girls on campus back then. I suppose when it happens more frequently is loses the novelty and humor.
It seems like everything is just so darned serious now.