How do you date a hat?

[adamgottschalk]

Dating hats: Borsalino and Beaver Brand

I have two vintage fur-felt fedoras I'd like to put a date on. One is the brown Borsalino in my avatar. It has one of those elastic strings with grosgrain-covered button. Other than the Borsalino logo, on the size tag it looks like it says "Eulan Bayer". The brim is 1 7/8".

The other is a dead mint Beaver Brand, center crease, 1 3/4" brim, navy (see it at www.adamgottschalk.net/beaver.html ). Inside the band it says "Imported coney fur" and "premium" in addition to the logo. This one still had the original price tag of 5.99 attached to the band. Right now it has a cheesy band made of frilly material, which will be replaced pronto.

Any further info at all on placing an age on these hats would be appreciated.

 

[John in Covina]

Playing the numbers with a Borsalino

On the Borsalino, under the sweat band there may be paper lable with numbers on it. Supposedly these numbers relate the style and the year it was made as the firt two digits of a serial number. So take a peek under the sweat band and see if you have one. My dad's borsalino is a 1947 manufacture from this lable.

 

[adamgottschalk]

And the tag reads...

On the Borsalino, under the sweat band there may be paper lable with numbers on it. Supposedly these numbers relate the style and the year it was made as the firt two digits of a serial number. So take a peek under the sweat band and see if you have one. My dad's borsalino is a 1947 manufacture from this lable.

Thanks for the tip. The label underneath the sweat band reads

04485
FOLCO

on the left side, and

81-66877
7 3/8

on the right side.

Maybe I'll see if I can turn up something online using those numbers... No such tag on the Beaver hat.

 

[John in Covina]

04485 FOLCO on the left side, and 81-66877 7 3/8 on the right side.

I believe that the 81 is the style and 66 is the year with yours being the 877th one made that year. Can't swear to it but that I think is what the code is supposed to say!

 

[WEEGEE]

OFF TOPIC A BIT

"Eulan Bayer" is permethrin-based mothproofing agent from
the Bayer Corporation...that is on the size tag of my 60's Borsalinos

 

[adamgottschalk]

66 it is!

I believe that the 81 is the style and 66 is the year with yours being the 877th one made that year. Can't swear to it but that I think is what the code is supposed to say!

Thanks for the info. I'll stick with 66 unless/untill I hear otherwise. Making her 40 this year--I like the idea of wearing hats that are older than me. I don't know if a person can "feel" a hat enough to be able to tell how old it is with any accuarcy (I suppose there must be some long-time haberdashers out there...) but it's sort of odd: if someone said to me, "That hat is 50 years old," I'd probably be hesitant to think so; so too if they said, "That hat is 20 years old," I'd probably be not so sure.

Man, Cavanagh may have originated something (my local "consultant" was talking about Cavanagh), but the finsish on the brim of this Borsalino of mine is so fine, you'd be inclined to think it was a raw edge. Are they all like that?

 

[besdor]

The Borsalino hat is from 1981 . The hats had dates like that until 1983 when the factory moves to it's present location . I'll bet the lining was sewn in as well.:cheers1:

 

[adamgottschalk]

25 and no sew lining

The Borsalino hat is from 1981 . The hats had dates like that until 1983 when the factory moves to it's present location . I'll bet the lining was sewn in as well.:cheers1:

Well, 25 is a respectable age I guess. I know some perfectly nice 25 year olds The lining is not sewn in.

 

[John in Covina]

tHERE MANY VERY FINE sCOTCHES THAT ARE 25!

 

[D. Hats]

To add confusion

Seriously I would have thought the first set of numbers referenced the manufacturing date, i.e., 04485. Hence April 4th, 1985.

But whatta I know.... no, I don't need an answer on that....

 

[Fedora]

Seriously I would have thought the first set of numbers referenced the manufacturing date, i.e., 04485. Hence April 4th, 1985.

I would have thought the 04485 was julian calendar dating. The 44th day of 85(1985) Fedora

 

[Kaleponi Craig]

Dating my Borsalino

I have a Borsalino that has a paper label that says 13313 and 6 1/2 and Amiata c. Talpa. Any idea what this means? I guess the 6 1/2 is the size, but what does the 13313 mean?

Thanks, KC

 

[jpbales]

Hi everyone! I just started wearing hats and I've gotten a couple off of ebay. I like the hats I got, and I like wearing them, but I don't really know much about them other than who made them. I'd like to know when they were made, or at least a have a reasonable estimate.

I have three hats, but there's just one that I'm really concerned about right now. The sating liner says "Bond Executive Group," and the sweatband says "JWM" and "Bond" and "Executive Group." It has a ribbon on the inside, and under the sweatband there are some tags. One tag is on the felt and says "To Duplicate: 82351" and the size, and the other is on the liner and says the color, the style: "S 25838" and the price: "$10.00" and the size, along with space for name and address. "OLYMPIC" is also stamped on the headband too.The lining seems to be hand-sewn onto the felt and there doesn't seem to be anything sewn through it.

I did do some research about dating vintage hats, and this is what I found from "http://www.vintagefashionguild.org/content/view/659/107/#hats":
"Pre-1930s hats will normally have a hand sewn lining.
Hats with interior grosgrain ribbons started in the 1930s.
1930s-40s hats will often have a hat size tag.
A circular wire loop on the back of the hat to hold it to the head dates it to the late 1930s - early 1940s; while two 'V' shape wire clamps on the sides date it to the early - mid 1950s.
The last element of a pre-1930 hat to be completed is the lining. If there are threads sewn through the lining to anchor decorations, then those decorations are not original to the hat."

I know there's a lot of people out there with a lot of knowledge on this stuff, so I appreciate any help, tips, or advice I can get. So if you know anything about dating hats, please post it here. Thanks

Here are some pictures:

 

[YETI]

It looks like an early to mid 50s hat. The clear plastic in the liner would indicate that. I could be wrong though.

 

[scotrace]

Ask it out for dinner and drinks?

 

[thunderw21]

Ask it out for dinner and drinks?

He'll be here all week, folks!

 

[AlanC]

 

[johnnyphi]

Point him in the right direction!

Yes, yes... very funny, but now it's time to point him in the right direction.

I'm sure members of the Lounge have found more methods for determining the age of a vintage lid, right?

Can you post some links to some threads for the new kids on the block?

 

[MAB1]

I use the search funtion here. Google usually leads me here too. And I also watch the Old Hat Channel. And then I'm just guesing.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Welcome, J.P.

This is such a tricky area and one about which I have also been very curious. My knowledge in this area is still in its infancy compared to some of the more experienced Loungers who are likely to comment here, but until they do, I'll offer some general info I've gleaned. If there are mistakes in any of this, I invite others to point them out so we all learn.

First my term "older" could mean 30s through early 60s and my term "newer" could mean 60s through present. Not very precise, I know, but at least I am only commenting on fedoras or Homburgs, not top hats, etc.

Older hats seem to display brown or tan sweatbands. Occasionally you'll also see light grey tanned leather here. Also wider sweatbands, and in some cases "welded" together at the seam rather than sewn. Newer hats usually have black. Some very old hats have no reeding and the sweat is sewn directly to the felt which could be problematic. I don't know if unreeded sweats are the exclusive domain of hats from the 30s and I doubt it since I have some hats which are unreeded but do not seem that old to me. It is one of the murky clues though.

Older hats seem to have the satin liners sewn in rather than glued like newer ones.

Older hats sometimes have the "Cavanagh edge" which is discussed in a Sticky thread on each page of this forum.

Newer hats (as in obviously vintage but from 50s or 60s) favor a smaller brim as that became the fashion and then as time wore on and fedoras were made as basically replicas the brim sizes vary wildly, like modern hats.

There are probably myriad other tips like this but that's enough from me for now.

G'luck!