Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[GriffDeLaGriff]

The motive as I see it is to be able to say "we have bad ass thick horsehide".
Thats it.

I suspect this started with the IH collaboration. Im not saying they are to blame, Im just saying the nature of the products was - insanely thick and sturdy stuff.

I also love all of my jackets bought from Will and Amanda and they were great to me, so its sad. But Im actually more sad if many of the favourite machinists are gone like Vicky, Moira, Janet and Paula.

 

[rocketeer]

I also love all of my jackets bought from Will and Amanda and they were great to me, so its sad. But Im actually more sad if many of the favourite machinists are gone like Vicky, Moira, Janet and Paula.

I bought a Highwayman through Will and Amanda around 6 years ago, I'm not going to check it though as I am happy with it. What would I get out of it if it was exchanged? A new jacket that I had to break in again.

As to the machinists, that will depend on loyalty to their employer and also what kind of deal£££ they may get out of it.

 

[cloudylemonade]

That was always my understanding as well. Perhaps it's more of a cost per square foot that FQHH becomes more expensive? Holly can you comment on cost of CX horse versus CX steer?

You are right, the Steer does cost a few cents more than the FQHH, and because of the weigth it's also slightly more expensive to ship but this is more than offset by the ease and speed it can be cut. Steer offers bigger hides and less marks which results in less waste, therefore ulimately, less cost.

Horsehide "Quarters" are rather uneconomical in cutting terms because of their size. An average of around 11ft, while Steer offers a side of around 26ft. Unlike Steer, the edges of a front quarter are often too thin, also causing more waste and the bigger the size/panels of the jacket being cut, the greater the waste. On average 5 or 6 Steerhide jackets can be cut from the same footage as 4 or 5 horse jackets.

Wastage is the same reason that we offer our Goatskin in so few Aero styles and not at all in larger size jackets, the wasteage on an average 8ft goatskin would be so great that the price of the jacket would be beyond what we'd want to charge for it.

 

[Cooperson]

But Im actually more sad if many of the favourite machinists are gone like Vicky, Moira, Janet and Paula.

First I've heard about this Griff, is it really the case?

 

[Unwissender]

What exactly happened in Scotland, I do not know. There must have been a big bang.
I only know that I ordered last year, my first jacket at Aero. I was treated exemplary. All questions were answered very quickly by Amanda. Usually as fast as possible.
This is a good business relationship has developed. This makes me very sad when Amanda will not be with Aero!

My respect to aero that they go the right way! This decision certainly took a lot of courage!

I wish ALL participants that everything will be fine!

Have a good weekend all

Cheers Markus

 

[alex1976]

I suspect this all started with IH collaboration!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think my Aero Iron Heart collab is 100% horsehide!!!!

 

[Lungomare]

Hello!

I send you the weight of my two Aero Leather made of Heavy Horse (???) Hide. Could you please compare the weigth of your Highwayman / HFQHH.

Thanks in advance and kind regards,

Johannes

Wheight of my HWM is 3.3 kg (= 7.3 lbs) - size 38

Wheight of my 1950's is 2.4 kg (= 5.3 lbs) - size 38

Both jackets are labeled "Genuine Front Quarter Horse Hide".

Steer or Horse - this is the question:

I quote my own reply

Someone more that can tell the weight of his HWM in order to find out if mine is Steer, Horse (or even a mixture of it)?

I know weight is not the best criterion, but can someone see my pics to estimate what leather the brown HWM is?

Thanks and kind regards,

Johannes

 

[wdw]

Lungomare, interesting question. My 38" FQHH Stockman is 2.65kg, my 40" vintage FQHH Teamster is 2.35kg and my 40" steer HWM is 2.65kg. As steer is heavier, my results stack up.

I reckon your HWM is elephant hide. I heard one went missing from the Galashiels circus when your jacket was getting made.

 

[767fo]

I quote my own reply

Someone more that can tell the weight of his HWM in order to find out if mine is Steer, Horse (or even a mixture of it)?

I know weight is not the best criterion, but can someone see my pics to estimate what leather the brown HWM is?

Thanks and kind regards,

Johannes

The lable says HH

 

[wdw]

The lable says HH

The label on my first HWM said FQHH, but it turned out to be an infernal mixture of steer, horse and possibly any other passing quadruped.

The steer HWM I got as a replacement yesterday from the factory originally had 2 FQHH labels. When Aero discovered the problem, they replaced the main label with a steerhide one, but the small white label in the side seam still says FQHH.

 

[COLORADO]

I quote my own reply

Someone more that can tell the weight of his HWM in order to find out if mine is Steer, Horse (or even a mixture of it)?

I know weight is not the best criterion, but can someone see my pics to estimate what leather the brown HWM is?

Thanks and kind regards,

Johannes

Hi Johannes,
My Highwayman ordered in February 2011 and received in June is a size 42. His weigth is 3.7 kg (8.1lb)
I hope it's Horse, but what is sure is that the first days I got it, It was smelling horse in all my house.
Cheers
Manuel

 

[wdw]

Colorado, if I was a betting man, and using yours, Johannes's and my weights, I would put a few Euros on Johannes's 1950s being FQHH and both his and your HWM being something else.

I think that steer might work out at around 1.2 or 1.3 times the equivalent FQHH (based on Holly's weights on page 4), meaning that my 2.65kg 40" steer HWM would have a corresponding 2.1kg or so FQHH HWM.

We need more measurements from people with non black, brown or cordovan HWMs, as they're the suspect ones.

 

[handymike]

I recently weighed a FQHH halfbelt sz42- 10years old at 5.3 lbs. (cotton lining)

 

[wild_balls]

Hi there,

My FQHH HWM size 38 has the wheight of 2.3 kg! My new LHB has the wheight of 3.3 kg! Sent some pictures to Holly for them to decide if the LHB is steer or horse, unfortunately they sad it looked like steer. I decided to keep the jacket as I think it has the perfect fit for me. They offered me a new jacket, but I like the jacket! I got very nice offers that I will use the next time I order an AERO. Who knows how the replacement will fit! If I had not read this thread I possibly never would have wondered about the hide of the jacket!

Cheers Joakim

I quote my own reply

Someone more that can tell the weight of his HWM in order to find out if mine is Steer, Horse (or even a mixture of it)?

I know weight is not the best criterion, but can someone see my pics to estimate what leather the brown HWM is?

Thanks and kind regards,

Johannes

 

[jlanderson]

Colorado, if I was a betting man, and using yours, Johannes's and my weights, I would put a few Euros on Johannes's 1950s being FQHH and both his and your HWM being something else.

I think that steer might work out at around 1.2 or 1.3 times the equivalent FQHH (based on Holly's weights on page 4), meaning that my 2.65kg 40" steer HWM would have a corresponding 2.1kg or so FQHH HWM.

We need more measurements from people with non black, brown or cordovan HWMs, as they're the suspect ones.

In the "For What It's Worth" Department, I just checked the shipping label of the box my Long Half Belt, FQHH, arrived in back in July, and the Global Post weight was 3 kg even. And that was a box with nothing but a jacket and bubble wrap in it. Then, plugging that weight and Johannes' 3.3 kg weight for his LHB into a measurement converter app, I came up with 6.6 pounds for my LHB and 7.27 pounds for his LHB. They're both size 42, and the only mods I had to mine were the deletion of the storm cuffs and the addition of an extra inside pocket.

Oh, and Holly said that Ken is "reasonably certain" my LHB is FQHH, from the photos I sent her.

Hope it gives some point of comparison for folks.

 

[wdw]

I came up with 6.6 pounds for my LHB and 7.27 pounds for his LHB.

I'm afraid Johannes has a HWM, which should weigh significantly less than an LHB, probably less than his 2.4kg/5.3lbs 1950s HB.

jlanderson, just realised you probably meant Joakim (wild_balls). His 38" HWM looks fine for FQHH, at around 2.3kg/5lb, making Johannes's and Colorado's look very dodgy at 7 or 8lbs.

 

[jlanderson]

I'm afraid Johannes has a HWM, which should weigh significantly less than an LHB, probably less than his 2.4kg/5.3lbs 1950s HB.

Oops ... it was Wild_Balls' LHB at 3.3 kg I was getting my measurements from. Sorry about that.

 

[HungaryTom]

Revaluation of values. Issue of Denomination control

Till the jackets speak in tongues...

4+ oz chrome-tanned front-quarter steer hide jackets. Heaviest, thickest leathers, with their grain and patina. Labelled as such. Correct denomination.

3 oz chrome-tanned front quarter horsehide jackets with the traits of horsehide.

3 oz chrome-tanned front quarter steerhide. Labelled accordingly.

Pricing will remain anyhow the domain of Aero, the maker who even gave inside info on the production factors (raw material prices, workability to cut and sew the leather, wasteage rate, working hours, required skill levels etc. per jacket)

The decision lies with the customer, what traits s/he prefers: the heaviest possible, bulletproof leather or genuine horsehide?
What matters is the correct denomination.

Is this a correct understanding?

 

[ando.thun]

To add to the comparison chart:

HWM, cotton lining, no cuffs, FQHH, size 42, 2510g = 5.53lbs

Produced 3/2010

 

[hpalapdog]

The label on my first HWM said FQHH, but it turned out to be an infernal mixture of steer, horse and possibly any other passing quadruped.

Perhaps a bit of dog hide thrown in ?