Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[Tom 6]

Yes, Ken makes jackets a long time.
But where should be a motive for Will, to do this?
Money, no way!
With one million jackets per year, yes, but not with that small quantity, like Aero made.
Aero made about 2500-3000 jackets per year, that is nothing to other companies.
The easier way is to rise up prices, what we saw the last year.
And everybody accept the new prices, still buying jackets.
And again, you can make such statements much as you want, at the end it is a conjectur, till someone
is judging about this.
I was shocked about the way, people handle things here.
That looks for me like "the king is dead, long lives the king", business at usual, main thing to get good jackets and
no critical attitudes.
Mark Moyes was very bad for people, to charge money for nothing.
But also a judge has to tell him guilty, sorry guys, these are basics of the democratic systems.
If you like it, or not.
Same for you and me.
We are no judges, Holly is no judge.
What is 100% in your view, could be 10% in another view.
Facts an proves.
Any proves about that that statement?
At the end of a investigation, with a legal judgment, you can talk like this, not before.
Till this time, Will is consider as not guilty.
Everything else is prejudged.
And again, from my view, there are a lot of things, we do not know about.
From my view, it is a bad situation for both, because Wills new company, has a hard start here, too.
I wish, that they will find a way, to find an gentlemen agreement for the future and not to wash dirty washes in public.

 

[IXL]

Zero motive? Most MDs share in the profits of a corporation, so hows this:
the MD enlists the aid of a few key people and buys less costly cowhides, which are easier and faster to cut and assemble. These garments are sold as the more costly horsehide....more profit to be made by what is essentially the old "buy low, sell high" principle.
Also, an MD could have the orders written internally as cowhide (cheaper), then sold externally as horsehide (more costly). The accounts receivable is then internally adjusted to the lower amount, so the books balance. The difference in monies is then pocketed by those involved in the fraud. Some of the cutters would just be working from tickets that state "cowhide", make a garment from the cowhide, and remain completely unaware that the garment will at some point be written up as "horsehide" and invoiced accordingly.
"Time is money!" We all know this. For a company with a great backlog of orders, the faster processing of cowhide could, over a period of time, tip the scales upward in the amount of production, as opposed to the slower-to-work-with horsehide. More production can equal more bonus money for the MD.
I'm not saying that this is the situation with Aero, at all. I'm merely pointing out that there are many, many reasons a fraud of this type could enrich a criminal MD. I've only offered but a few.
I've had a few dealings with situations of this type. Also, I'm planning to order what I'm sure will be the first of several jackets from Aero.

EDIT: I was typing my reply and didn't realize there were posts made after #98 which already mentioned the content of my post.

 

[Tom 6]

It's a complex and unpleasant situation, and I don't think calling Aero out on the FL is really constructive at the moment, especially when they're doing their best to help make a bad situation better.

Yes, I agree, but I can not see a bad situation!
I can see only statements, no facts and proves.

 

[Tom 6]

Tom6, I was a victim of Mark Moye earlier this year, and Holly and Ken bent over backward to help make me whole. The deafening silence when I tried to contact Moye spoke volumes, as does the silence of Mr. Lauder. Ken, his daughter and Aero are stepping up and standing up for their customers.

That's all I need to know.

Yes, the communication from Will was not the best in that situation and Holly made it good.
But do not be unfair with them, it was a "two men" show at this time and Holly enough room to do this in that time,
because Will and Amanda were still in company and made the back work.
I was also shocked about the things.

 

[l0fielectronic]

New member signs up in order to name drop this new company?

 

[Sloan1874]

I refer you to my point about libel. In Scotland, as in most places in the world, if you make a false statement - in either broadcast or print - alleging that somebody has been involved in serious wrongdoing, then that is a criminal offence. In the event of a provable libel, particularly on the web, the first thing you would be forced to do is remove the offending statement. I doubt that Will is unaware of Aero's statement on the FL.

 

[Tom 6]

New member knows it, like a lot of people knows it.
It is a open secret and somebody said it before here, that Will is working on it.
Here:

Originally Posted by John Lever View Post
I would like to know more about where Will and Amanda have gone. It would be a shame to see them disappear after all the years I have known them.
As I mentioned t'other day, John, I think they might just appear under another name that we have all heard of - hopefully soon

 

[Sloan1874]

I don'y think there's been any lack of belief that Will was expected to pop elsewhere - Holly said as much - though it's interesting to see that you name his new company, something that's not been mentioned anywhere on this thread.

 

[Tom 6]

I don'y think there's been any lack of belief that Will was expected to pop elsewhere - Holly said as much - though it's interesting to see that you name his new company, something that's not been mentioned anywhere on this thread.

I put off the name, but a lot of members knows it anyway.

 

[Sloan1874]

Really? Given the nature of the Outdoor part of FL, I would've expected such a fact would've had a thread of its own.

 

[majormajor]

New member Tom 6 has posted 6 times on FL so far - all on this thread.

95% of what he has said so far pretty well constitutes what is generally referred to on forums as "trolling & flaming".

Or what many would simply call stirring the sh*t....

Are there no Admins or Moderators on this site??

 

[jlanderson]

Tom6, please reread the joint statement Horween and Aero released that started this thread. The president of one of the world's most respected tanneries and the owner of one of its premiere clients would not say what they did without consulting numerous lawyers, much less without the facts to back them up.

Were the statement false, libel lawyers for the aggrieved party would be all over them. They are not.

Truth is an absolute defense. And from everything we know, the truth of the matter lies with Horween and Aero.

And yes, under the law, he is not guilty until a jury of peers or a judge proclaims otherwise. But the court of public opinion is another thing, and often leads the other.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Let's not play a childish game of trying to pick motives or play at being cops or lawyers. Aero has made some disclosures and staffing choices based on what they know. Let's trust them to manage their own affairs and get on with being a great company.

 

[Sloan1874]

Let's not play a childish game of trying to pick motives or play at being cops or lawyers. Aero has made some disclosures and staffing choices based on what they know. Let's trust them to manage their own affairs and get on with being a great company.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Tom 6]

Let us wait till the end of story.
Yes, public court is different to legal court.
My view is clear now and hopefully at the end they will find
a fair and unemotional way.
Because Aero makes an top quality outstanding product with
a lot of emotions, hard to find anywhere else.
And it is better to save the energy for making new jackets than other things
around.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Seems to me that this is/was Aero's thread to make public annoucements in good faith. Why continue to clutter it with BS that may lead to another locked thread? (Unless someone's intent is to deny any future updates)...[huh]

HD

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

The puzzling thing is that the C/X steerhide in question actually costs more than the C/X horsehide so none of this really makes much sense to an outside observer.

 

[oldcrow82]

The puzzling thing is that the C/X steerhide in question actually costs more than the C/X horsehide so none of this really makes much sense to an outside observer.

That was always my understanding as well. Perhaps it's more of a cost per square foot that FQHH becomes more expensive? Holly can you comment on cost of CX horse versus CX steer?

 

[Unwissender]

Hello!

I send you the weight of my two Aero Leather made of Heavy Horse (???) Hide. Could you please compare the weigth of your Highwayman / HFQHH.

Thanks in advance and kind regards,


My LHB brown FQHH looks exactly the same as your HWM. Exactly the same folds on the shoulder. But the HWM is pretty heavy for UK-size 38 My custom-LHB UK size 50, weighs 3.5 kg

When the first storm is over, I will send photos to Holly. See what she says.

Amanda is not there? This is a shame!
Johannes

Wheight of my HWM is 3.3 kg (= 7.3 lbs) - size 38

Wheight of my 1950's is 2.4 kg (= 5.3 lbs) - size 38

Both jackets are labeled "Genuine Front Quarter Horse Hide".

Steer or Horse - this is the question:

My LHB brown FQHH looks exactly the same as your HWM. Exactly the same folds on the shoulder. But the HWM is pretty heavy for UK-size 38th My custom-LHB UK size 50, weighs 3.5 kg

When the first storm is over, I will send photos to Holly. See what she says.

Amanda is not more by Aero? I deplore this!

 

[Dav]

All I know is, that I have a jacket that has been confirmed as not being made of what I requested/paid for and Aero are sorting it out! Am I pissed? No not really, I'm getting a new jacket