Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[Sloan1874]

CRAP! My FQHH cordovan half belt has the exact same grain as the heavy steer shown in cloudylemonade's example. Assuming Aero confirms this is steerhide and not FQHH, do I have to mail the jacket back for returns? I must admit it is insanely heavy to wear, but I just assumed that was what FQHH was like.

I'd get some pictures of your jacket over to Holly asap and let Ken and her have a look at it before you start panicking.

 

[LaymanX]

What do you guys think?

 

[Unwissender]

Hi all
First of all thanks to Holly and Aero Leather for her honesty. Have great respect that they do it that way
My trust is in even bigger!
I wish Aero that the damage is small and the matter is soon forgotten!

Amanda is no longer the contact person for customers? My LHB is from December 2011. Can they be affected?

Best regards, Markus

 

[frussell]

This thread is killing my turkey high. I've got a Mark Moye LHB that is suspiciously heavy (it would crush a small child) and has many similarities to the steerhide grain photos. I guess I'll spend Black Friday taking photos outside and emailing Scotland. I do applaud the folks at Aero for their honesty, it certainly is refreshing. Frank

 

[Seb Lucas]

I'm happy that the hh turns out to be 3 oz. that's plenty heavy enough for any kind of action.

Steer hide has been sold as horse by others over the years - they can be almost impossible to tell apart. I wouldn't bother worrying. If you can't help yourself, buy or borrow a micrometer - if it's over 1.4 mm and it's Aero then it ain't horse.

 

[cloudylemonade]

CRAP! My FQHH cordovan half belt has the exact same grain as the heavy steer shown in cloudylemonade's example. Assuming Aero confirms this is steerhide and not FQHH, do I have to mail the jacket back for returns? I must admit it is insanely heavy to wear, but I just assumed that was what FQHH was like.

Send us detailed photos of the jacket and the grain and we'll try to identify. How we proceed from there is your choice, we can discuss over email.

 

[Edward]

What do you guys think?

Looks a lot like my FQHH jackets, which were both manufactured during 2010/11. TBH, though, I can't see much difference in the photos above. Neither of my jackets are inordinately heavy - not much more so than my mid-weight steer HWM, actually, which feels the same thickness in the hand, although softer. Aero's treatment of the situation is certainly refreshing in its honesty (not to mention exactly the way I would have adised them to do it, from my professional pov).

 

[irow]

I recently requested a set of leather samples from Aero, does that mean the horse leather I received are not accurate? Should I request another set of samples in the future once everything from this problem is sorted out?

 

[cloudylemonade]

I recently requested a set of leather samples from Aero, does that mean the horse leather I received are not accurate? Should I request another set of samples in the future once everything from this problem is sorted out?

It shouldn't as Amanda should have been the one to send them, if you're in doubt then email me and I'll arrange more for you.

 

[Don Tomaso]

I hust gave my LHB I got back from Aero after some minor fixes on Monday a sharp look and I'm sure I heard it nicker back at me ;-)
Really, so many customers are concerned now, that asks for a lighter tone to chime in. I really love that jacket, be it horse or steer, and I'm sure we'll never part ways as long as I'm around. So be glad you all were able to afford such a nice jacket in such an outstanding quality.

 

[cloudylemonade]

I hust gave my LHB I got back from Aero after some minor fixes on Monday a sharp look and I'm sure I heard it nicker back at me ;-)
Really, so many customers are concerned now, that asks for a lighter tone to chime in. I really love that jacket, be it horse or steer, and I'm sure we'll never part ways as long as I'm around. So be glad you all were able to afford such a nice jacket in such an outstanding quality.

Thats a good point, if you love your jacket please don't feel you NEED to part with it over this. If you'd just like to know what it is, then feel free to drop me some photos for examination, and we'll sort an apology for you if you've been duped and still want to keep it!

Glad your repair got back to you safely

 

[Peter Mackin]

Im making the drive down the aero on monday to have my jackets looked over.Holly responded within minutes of my email...so much quicker than Amanda ever did,,even gonna have my useless collar looked at,,cheers Holly,

 

[cloudylemonade]

Im making the drive down the aero on monday to have my jackets looked over.Holly responded within minutes of my email...so much quicker than Amanda ever did,,even gonna have my useless collar looked at,,cheers Holly,

Think you struck lucky there, unfortunately I've still got massive piles of emails to get answered

 

[Lungomare]

Hello!

I send you the weight of my two Aero Leather made of Heavy Horse (???) Hide. Could you please compare the weigth of your Highwayman / HFQHH.

Thanks in advance and kind regards,

Johannes

Wheight of my HWM is 3.3 kg (= 7.3 lbs) - size 38

Wheight of my 1950's is 2.4 kg (= 5.3 lbs) - size 38

Both jackets are labeled "Genuine Front Quarter Horse Hide".

Steer or Horse - this is the question:

 

[Tom 6]

Could be interesting, to hear Will about this.
10 years he was the heart and Amanda the soul of Aero.
All forgotten by the members? All the patience of them, the time they spend for the customer.
Also forgotten?
Who made the company big?
Ken? Holly?
Where were Ken and Holly in this time? Who had the overall responsibility?
No voice for Will and Amanda, I will say, that is poor.
But everybody is crying about the leather.
By the way, a judge is judging, not a forum member.
Strange is the time, Wills new company webside is close to launch.
I think there is something very strange.
Are they afraid about Wills new company?
We will see, what the future brings, but till this Will is innocent for me.

 

[jlanderson]

Tom6, I was a victim of Mark Moye earlier this year, and Holly and Ken bent over backward to help make me whole. The deafening silence when I tried to contact Moye spoke volumes, as does the silence of Mr. Lauder. Ken, his daughter and Aero are stepping up and standing up for their customers.

That's all I need to know.

 

[Sloan1874]

Could be interesting, to hear Will about this.
10 years he was the heart and Amanda the soul of Aero.
All forgotten by the members? All the patience of them, the time they spend for the customer.
Also forgotten?
Who made the company big?
Ken? Holly?
Where were Ken and Holly in this time? Who had the overall responsibility?
No voice for Will and Amanda, I will say, that is poor.
But everybody is crying about the leather.
By the way, a judge is judging, not a forum member.
Strange is the time, Wills new company webside is close to launch.
I think there is something very strange.
Are they afraid about Wills new company?
We will see, what the future brings, but till this Will is innocent for me.

There's a lot to unpack in your statement there, so here goes: you're welcome to your opinions by all means, but Ken's been making leather jackets since the end of the 1960s, right through the 1970s - during which the likes of the Jimi Hendrix Experience and Santana beat a path to his door - and established Aero as we know it today at the start of 80s. He only retired in 2006-ish, so to say 'Will made the company big' is to disregard decades of work, effort and skill on Ken's part in building his business, and is just plain wrong
As regards your other comments, at the moment there are ongoing legal proceedings, so there's not much that can be said on Will's case. But he knows where the Fedora Lounge is, and he's more than able to make a statement of his own rebuffing what's been said. That aside, I don't think Aero and Horween would release a statement of the sort that they have without being 100 per cent sure of their facts, or they'd be hit with a serious libel writ - I don't know what the laws are like in Sweden, but in Scotland you can't just make any old allegations and expect to get away with it.
Finally, I don't think anyone has said anything in particular about Will. Rather, Aero made a very honest, straight forward statement of fact. They are saying that there has been a problem with their own product and that its customers should be aware of this. They have also been at pains to point out that the person(s) who were alleged to be responsible for this problem have now left and reassure their customers that they plan to make amends for anyone affected.
Without doubt, people have been shocked by this state of affairs, and are either a. rightly concerned that they have been misled, or b. very supportive of the company in general. I don't think anyone is really taking sides, they just want to see Aero move past what is a difficult period for it.
Personally, I would also be wary of making very forthright statements and asking asking rather accusative questions about the rights and wrongs of what's gone on with Aero, if, like the rest of it, you're not sure of your facts. It just gets people's backs up.

 

[nerkg]

I said before but there's zero motive for will to do it, until that's answered will is innocent.

 

[Worf]

I said before but there's zero motive for will to do it, until that's answered will is innocent.

There's one BIG motive, it's called MONEY! You may be an innocent or simply never been in business so I'll try and explain how it might work in a very basic manner. This is strictly a HYPOTHETICAL for demonstration only:

1. You can buy top of the line Horween FQ Horsehide and heavy steerhide.
2. You realize that the average Joe or Jane CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE WITH THE NAKED EYE.
3. You charge people for FQ Horse but give them Steerhide.
4. You pocket the difference.
5. You're running the shop so who's to know?

There was that hard? Anthere's a million other ways to profit... false invoices, fake bills of lading, etc... You could also be skimming the difference off the top and know one would ever know until they compared the Horsehide used, against what was ordered and what was left on hand. There's a always a way to steal and cheat if the opportunity is combined with a lack of morals. I'm not throwing stones... just telling truths.

Worf

 

[Sloan1874]

In what sense is there zero motive? I would say there's an obvious one, but I'm not going to get into that. As you point out, this is a just a chat board not a court, and you are absolutely right, that for the time being, in the eyes of the law, Will is innocent. But if you read my post, you'll see the point I was making: you made some very forceful assertions that don't stand up and you've asked some questions that you can't answer yourself, or anyone else here for that matter. Aero, on the other hand, are in full ownership of the facts and obviously feel confident about what they can say publicly.
I think I'm going to end my comments there. It's a complex and unpleasant situation, and I don't think calling Aero out on the FL is really constructive at the moment, especially when they're doing their best to help make a bad situation better.