Home Owners Associations

[Paisley]

The Real Reason Houses Aren't Selling

Just last weekend, I read an opinion poll that said that something like 75% felt that homeowners associations were a nuisance and that most people would rather live next to a rundown property than put up with one. Count me in that group. I grew up in an area with an HOA and have now lived in an area without one for 11 years. I'd rather look at my neighbors' weedy, dessicated yard than have some ninny tell me I can't paint my house sage green or put up a clothesline. If others want to live in a more cookie-cutter fashion, so be it.

I know a few people who are looking to buy a house, but don't. The reason isn't that there are houses in the neighborhood painted purple or displaying bunting. It's because the prices are too high.

 

[BegintheBeguine]

Do not get me started on the Reservation.

 

[RedHotRidinHood]

Just last weekend, I read an opinion poll that said that something like 75% felt that homeowners associations were a nuisance and that most people would rather live next to a rundown property than put up with one. Count me in that group. I grew up in an area with an HOA and have now lived in an area without one for 11 years. I'd rather look at my neighbors' weedy, dessicated yard than have some ninny tell me I can't paint my house sage green or put up a clothesline. If others want to live in a more cookie-cutter fashion, so be it.

I know a few people who are looking to buy a house, but don't. The reason isn't that there are houses in the neighborhood painted purple or displaying bunting. It's because the prices are too high.

Someone tells me I can't put up my clotheslines, I will politely tell them where to go. Yet another reason why I made a choice to not live in a place with an HOA.

There is a huge glut of houses on the market right now, to be sure..Phoenix is especially bad. I know of three people who have gone into bankruptcy because their house did not sell and they couldn't afford to keep them anymore. The prices kept falling, and they weren't greedy or anything-there isn't anyone buying. Too many speculators over the last few years screwed it all up and drove prices up. Add sub prime mortgages into the mix and companies that won't work with you and you have a recipe for disaster.

I know. We lost our house a few months ago because of many reasons. It wasn't in a new community either-it was a vintage home that was slightly overpriced. We were stupid. Lesson learned. The payment was supposed to go down but something happened to the market and no mortgage brokers would talk to us about refinancing. We limped along and worked our butts off, but the mortgage company wouldn't do anything to work with us. Hello to foreclosure. The house is just sitting there now, sad and empty. We rent now, and I know this isn't forever, but it sucks. We plan to buy again, after awhile.

I went totally fftopic: there, and I'm sorry. It's all about greed, as far as I am concerned. People should buy houses as a place to live, not primarily as an investment. I loved my house. But I also know that we made mistakes. We aren't deadbeats either. We learned alot from this experience.

 

[HamletJSD]

If you'll permit me to cite a funny example

Sorry this is long, but as soon as I read "Myspace," I remembered that I wanted to check mine, and a friend had just posted this bulletin about an HOA and his friends' response:

The history...

Salena and Jared receive a letter from the Avalon Park Communist Party taking them to task for a dead tree in their front yard. The envelope was in their mail. It contained two pages: the first, a letter in Reader's Digest, seeing-eye-dog-sized font. It berated them for the dead tree in the front of their house, and talked about property value, etc. The second was a full page photo of the front of their house, with the dead tree. The note wasn't signed and didn't have a return address. Bastards!

Solution:

Salena, being a crafty sort, procured fake leaves/foliage from the local hobby shop. I'm driving home from the nightly dog park/Publix run to find Erica and Salena attaching fake leaves to the tree. .... I took the pooch down the street, dumped him off, and returned to take pictures...

I wouldn't believe the story without the pictures, but, sure enough, they attached dozens of fake leaves to the tree so that it looked alive again lol lol lol

Here's the kicker to me, though: this is a fairly new area and the tree is small (meaning "young"). The only reason I can imagine for the young tree to be dead is that the builder put in a sick one!!! So the homeowners are the ones getting harassed for the builder's mistake!!!

 

[Nashoba]

Ok. I'm going to respond to this in sections and all at once. So please forgive me if this response is lengthy but there are several things I would like to address.

First of all, I have taken down the banner and the flag bunting. I had no real issue doing that, and James would have taken it down when he came home to start his leave on thursday anyway. That wasn't the point. My point was that I was angry at the way in which my HOA arbitrarily enforces rules both real and imagined. It's been an annoying thorn that once we do have control of our HOA I can promise you that I will address and I won't be alone. 98% of the time the association doesn't bother me and I don't bother them. It's this 2% when they single people out that frustrates me. And I certainly didn't expect the kind of response that I've gotten here....I'm grateful for the support and the love.

There's a relatively simple solution to this. Go to the neighbors. Get them on your side. Then go to the HOA meeting and start changing the rules. Even if the builder currently has more votes, those will shift to homeowners as the remaining lots are developed. If your problems are legitimate, then people will listen and vote with you.

That would be a fantastic idea. If we had HOA meetings. We have yet to have a single one. There is no board, there are no meetings. Our checks go to a central office in Atlanta somewhere where they are held in an account for who knows what. We are 'managed' by a property management company who also doesn't hold any meetings. I have no problems if I'm out of line. Heck I'm constantly out of line. It's part of my charm

A HOA can easily be steered by a small group of dedicated people. Most homeowners don't take part in decision-making other than voting on key issues once a year, and can be persuaded to see things your way. An HOA is nothing other than a small scale government - and those involved in it can impact its direction immediately. If you don't like what the board is doing, get on the board. It's easy, because most boards have to go scrounging for members. Load the board with people who think like you and go for it.

I wholeheartedly agree. And when run properly and efficiently associations can do a lot of good. It's not a bad thing to want your community to be all than it can be. And I intend to get on the board. Or at the very least be a vocal participant of the community. But until they turn control over to us we have no association. We have a property management company that acts on behalf of the builder. I have never once received notice of any voting on anything.

Just don't make the problem worse. The only thing that's more scary than a board that's arbitrary is one that knows Truth. People who know Truth scare the hell outa me.

Again, I agree. Which is why I did take the stuff down. The ribbons will be replaced with new and unfaded ones. And they will remain in place until our unit stops deploying with every rotation and all of my Marines are home safely. Period, I will not budge on that.

As background, please understand that I am a U.S. Army vet (1962 - 1965)

I thank you for your service sir. You served in a time where you did not receive the welcome home and support that you deserved. For all that you endured I thank you.

I understand the passion you must feel when you attempt to demonstrate your concern for military personal, especially family members. But the freedom to decorate your property in any manner you wish as an expression of your passion was given up when you moved into a restricted development. Just as your "right" to display ribbons and banners was relinquished, so did your neighbors give up their "right" to paint the exterior of their houses neon purple, to illuminate their homes with evening searchlights, to store engineless automobiles in their front yards, to play music at top volume, etc.

What needs to be understood here is that I do NOT live in a restricted development. I NEVER relinquished my right to decorate my property in the manner that I wish. Our covenants state that PERMANENT architectural changes require approval. Decorations do not. I have read our covenants sir. I know what they say and I know my rights within them. I do respect the organization that has been established to maintain our property values. My issue lies with the random manner in which they are enforced. I have had far less trouble than some of my neighbors and I assure you that they were not in violation either.

What you are doing, while obviously self-satisfying, violates your agreement.

My point is that it does NOT violate our agreement. As I have stated, I have read our convenants. I did so thoroughly when my husband decided that he wanted to put a 25ft flagpole in our front yard. And I can assure you that self-satisfaction had nothing to do with it. Putting those items up was nothing short of a headache and I would have been happy not to do it. It was not done for me. It wasn't even done because I wanted to call attention from the neighborhood that we had a Marine returning home. It was done for my husband. Because it was nothing short of what he deserved.

You do not appear to be someone others may see as reasonably accepting of any views but your own. The HOA exists, partially, to act as a conduit in these cases. It should be noted that the HOA may act on it's own without complaint from any member, however, and perhaps that's what has happened in this case.

I will attempt not to take that as a personal affront. And it should be remembered that appearances are oftentimes completely inaccurate. Please be more than assured that I readily accept many other views than my own. It is not in my nature nor practices to belittle the beliefs or opinions of others. I have had neighbors come to me with concerns. And we have addressed them in cordial and even friendly manners that have preserved our mutual appreciation for one another. I am not without my charm and I assure you that I am a reasonable and logical person. That being said I am not perfect and I recognize this, but I also know my rights and I am perfectly within them. I will freely admit when I am mistaken but until it is shown to me that I am mistaken in this case, my position will stand. Rules are created and discarded as seen fit and they are arbitrarily enforced. This completely flys in the face of reason, and impartiality. It has gotten better. We have been able to do that much, but at a cost. It took writing letters and threatening legal action to the President of the Corporation that owns the builders of our community. These are all issues that will be rectified when we reach the point in time where we assume responsiblity for our own community. Our convanents are vague and there are many things that they attempt to find us in violation of that are not even addressed in the articles. This is where the problem lies and it is not an issue that will be resolved completely until we assume responsibility for our own little government. And if they were acting of their own accord I have no issue with that as well. But call a spade a spade. The 'association' as it stands consists of the builder, the builder, and oh wait...the builder. There is one person who makes that call with the model sales associate as her personal spy. THAT I have a problem with.
Like with my garden. I come from an agricultural culture. I was raised with large gardens. I will have one and there is NOTHING in my covenants that tells me I can't have one in any form. For the sales associate to tell me that I cannot plant corn because she doesn't like the way it looks, has to count among the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Hence me telling her I was going to plant a fence of corn. I left it to her to determine whether I was joking or not.

It is quite possible that, by violating the CC&R's you agreed to when you wanted to move in, you have caused a decline in the values of nearby properties.

Which I would readily accept and modify IF i was in violation. Which I am not.

In my opinion, you have left the reservation.

I am not completely sure what you intend by that comment. There are several ways that it can be taken given who and what I am and in light of earlier statements and none of them leaves me with a warm fuzzy feeling. I wouldn't mind some clarification on that, but I'm not sure I really want to know what you mean by it so I'm going to leave it alone.

I do understand and respect your position but I believe that you may have misunderstood my intentions and frustration in my original post.

Nashoba is one of the nicest people on here, and very respectful of other people's views. She has shown herself to be very open minded and I know from very personal experience, she is extremely kind. I cannot see how she would be seen as unreasonable by anyone!

*blush* thank you RHRH. I have done nothing more than my pack requires.

Paisley, I tend to agree. I will be the first to admit that we probaby don't mow our lawn as often as we should. Especially when it was my responsiblity the last 7 months because to be honest, our lawnmower has a personal vendetta against me. And it's not my chore The thing is, we NEVER get letters about that. The city reminds me far more often than the HOA does that my lawn needs to be mowed. lol. Another reason I'm glad he's home. I hate mowing the lawn.

 

[Paisley]

As a general rule, it's a good idea to not do things your neighbors don't do. It might sound rigid and persnickety, but it's really not. There are neighborhoods where people restore cars in the driveway, and places where they don't. Some places, kids play in everyone's yard, other places, they don't. Denver is kind of odd; these things vary from block to block.

If you're looking for a house, look around the neighborhood and see what people do. If you want a friendly, relaxed lifestyle, but you don't see sheets flapping in the breeze, chairs on the front porches, kids playing in the street or yard, or the oddly colored house, it's probably a good idea to keep looking.

 

[Nashoba]

Here's the kicker to me, though: this is a fairly new area and the tree is small (meaning "young"). The only reason I can imagine for the young tree to be dead is that the builder put in a sick one!!! So the homeowners are the ones getting harassed for the builder's mistake!!!

Which is another issue we've had with our builder. When we bought the house we were told that it would have professional landscaping. I don't consider what they did professional and everything they put in has since died. I am no black thumb. I come from a long line of farmers, I know how to care for living things. And when I tried to complain I was literally told by the sales associate, look at what you paid for your house. Of course you weren't going to get 'landscaping'. I would have settled for a half-hearted attempt. They didn't even do that. But it's one more thing that's been cited to various people in the neighborhood by the HOA.

 

[Paisley]

Paisley, I tend to agree. I will be the first to admit that we probaby don't mow our lawn as often as we should. Especially when it was my responsiblity the last 7 months because to be honest, our lawnmower has a personal vendetta against me. And it's not my chore The thing is, we NEVER get letters about that. The city reminds me far more often than the HOA does that my lawn needs to be mowed. lol. Another reason I'm glad he's home. I hate mowing the lawn.

Hehe. I hate mowing the lawn, too. Several years ago, I killed the lawn and planted flowers and bushes that didn't need nearly as much water (I live in a semi-arid climate). I get lots of compliments on it, even from kids. They won't let people xeriscape in HOA communities around here.

 

[Nashoba]

If you're looking for a house, look around the neighborhood and see what people do. If you want a friendly, relaxed lifestyle, but you don't see sheets flapping in the breeze, chairs on the front porches, kids playing in the street or yard, or the oddly colored house, it's probably a good idea to keep looking.

Come live in our neighborhood We blow stuff up on 4th of July and New Years (my husband=pyromaniac). Children play in the street here and most of us know each other. We're easy to find...we're the White house with Blue Shutters and red and white roses in the front beds with the Apple trees in the front...oh and the flagpole in the front I have a porch swing and two rockers that are the same shade of Navy blue as my shutters....I'll sit y'all down with a nice sweet tea and we'll plan the revolt......lol

 

[Paisley]

I usually don't like a lot of decoration, but I like the house better with the bunting.

Funny, I was going to invite you to move to my neighborhood. My house is up the street from the Coca-Cola sign; the green house with the blue stained glass window, flowers in front, big rosebushes on the side and the trellis that needs fixing.

As for the covenant-controlled neighborhood where I grew up, the houses were very natty, but you never saw a neighbor. The elementary school looked like a prison. And there was quite a lot of vandalism and school shootings.

 

[ASimpleLady]

Ohh I live in a HOA too and it's terrible.

 

[Nashoba]

I usually don't like a lot of decoration, but I like the house better with the bunting.

Funny, I was going to invite you to move to my neighborhood. My house is up the street from the Coca-Cola sign; the green house with the blue stained glass window, flowers in front, big rosebushes on the side and the trellis that needs fixing.

As for the covenant-controlled neighborhood where I grew up, the houses were very natty, but you never saw a neighbor. The elementary school looked like a prison. And there was quite a lot of vandalism and school shootings.

Thanks! That bunting was a pain in the......I ordered two different sizes for the width so they would stretch properly across the different sized section of the porch....*sigh* I forgot to take the different lengths into account...took me three hours to get it all up and looking nice. And I had to get on the roof. I hate getting on the roof. I don't like heights. God made me low to the ground for a reason. I like to stay there.
We should find a way to just move our houses next to each other lol. It's like that in my parents neighborhood. And they don't have an HOA. It's a pretty ritzy area though and everyone has these perfectly manicured lawns and landscaping. But I don't think my mother has said more than a handful of words to any of her neighbors over the course of the last 15 years. Especially after I moved out and any friends I had in the neighborhood dissapeared. I don't function like that. I need to know who is around me, especially given how often my husband is gone. I like knowing that there are people I can run to when things go south. In this girl's humble opinion that's what neighborhoods should be. I never understood the need some people have to be hostile. It just makes me sad.

 

[RedHotRidinHood]

I think your house looks fine either way! I would be happy to have such a friendly-looking house in my 'hood. Bet some of your neighbors would freak out if they saw some of what's around my area. lol

And sweetie.....that front porch sure looks nice. I would love to come up and "set" awhile with you and have tea sometime.

 

[RedHotRidinHood]

As a general rule, it's a good idea to not do things your neighbors don't do. It might sound rigid and persnickety, but it's really not. There are neighborhoods where people restore cars in the driveway, and places where they don't. Some places, kids play in everyone's yard, other places, they don't. Denver is kind of odd; these things vary from block to block.

If you're looking for a house, look around the neighborhood and see what people do. If you want a friendly, relaxed lifestyle, but you don't see sheets flapping in the breeze, chairs on the front porches, kids playing in the street or yard, or the oddly colored house, it's probably a good idea to keep looking.

Well put, Paisley...I want to live in a place just like that. Where all my neighbors can speak English, even if it isn't their first language. Where we are living now, we are the minority. It's weird.

 

[Mid-fogey]

HOAs...

...Bah. I've been in three, and now I'm not. They are supposed to protect your property value from your neighbors. Hah!! This is the best kept neighborhood we've ever been in.

 

[Nashoba]

Suspicions Confirmed

Well I just had heart to hearts with a few of my neighbors. Seems I'm not the only one who got a letter. And bless their hearts, they told me I should put all that stuff back up and leave it up until we put up the Christmas decorations lol. I love my neighbors. Although the one who said that to me did just come back from her own tour in Iraq and her husband was in as well until recently. And my next door neighbor said he went to talk to the sales associate about the one he got (they're putting in a pool) and he said she went off for a while about me and my house. Which is exactly who I thought was behind it. I think it's time to write a carefully worded letter to her bosses boss. this is getting ridiculous.

RHRH: You are welcome in my home anytime. Set a while, stay a while The wolf den has a warm bed, the galley, a down home cherokee / choctaw meal and I'd be willing to bet one heck of a conversation that would last well into the night

 

[RedHotRidinHood]

Yep, it sure sounds personal to me. How do stupid people get put into positions of power anyway?
Be careful with that letter, my friend...but I know you will. You have shown alot of tact already. I just would hate to see this backfire on you, even if you are in the right. Argh!

 

[Nashoba]

Yep, it sure sounds personal to me. How do stupid people get put into positions of power anyway?
Be careful with that letter, my friend...but I know you will. You have shown alot of tact already. I just would hate to see this backfire on you, even if you are in the right. Argh!

She has it in for pretty much everyone. She's super nice until you close and then she turns...it's bizarre. I'll be careful always am. She's more bark than bite anyway. I'm far more dangerous than she is and a heck of a lot smarter

 

[Diamondback]

She has it in for pretty much everyone. She's super nice until you close and then she turns...

I think I see an angle here--once you close and are paying the mortgage, she's got her money. Then if she can drive you to sell, she gets her money again from selling to the next buyer... (Is there a requirement about where you can sell if you decide to? Some developments make you sell through the developer's broker, IIRC...)

 

[Nashoba]

I think I see an angle here--once you close and are paying the mortgage, she's got her money. Then if she can drive you to sell, she gets her money again from selling to the next buyer... (Is there a requirement about where you can sell if you decide to? Some developments make you sell through the developer's broker, IIRC...)

Naw you can sell through whoever you want to. She only gets her money when she sells one of the new houses. She's just a....well I don't have anything nice to say so...
there are actually several homes up for sale already and in talking to some of the people who are selling, their experience with the builder and the problems that we've had have all been factors in it. Personally, I'm happy to have a roof over my head and my own patch of land. Yes we've had problems with the builder, but I have a beautiful 2500sqft home. It's more than I ever thought our first home would be and I'm grateful for it. And once we get the stupid people out...it will be even better. Then I can sit on my porch peering out between the flag bunting and ribbons watching my lights sparkle in time to the music it's been set to If she doesn't like my welcome home stuff....just wait until christmas....with James home.....well lets just say that he doesn't hold back. I truly believe that his goal is to be the house that ends up in the paper that everyone comes to see.....a beacon that can be seen from space.....lol....I'm telling ya....come set on my porch with a sweet tea....we're gonna plan a revolution!!!!