Home Owners Associations

[Nashoba]

Ok, I'm annoyed enough about this that I've posted it on my myspace thingy too, so those of you who pay any attention to that have probably already seen this. I've refined it here . Honestly it has less to do with the actual content of what was up around my house than the cowardace of the people who live in my neighborhood....just all rolled up into one rant. And it put me in an extremely foul mood.

I got a letter from my HOA today telling me that they are grateful that I am able to celebrate the return of my loved one from serving in the military and that they'd like to thank us for our sacrifice while he was serving...HOWEVER....several recent complaints have been received about the length of time that some of the decorations, banners and ribbons have been displayed at my home, some of which have been up since May.

Ok, first of all, my 'loved one' is still serving. 13 Years now with at least 7 more to go but very likely 17 since if I know him he'll go through to 30 years. But that's irrelevant and could set me off on a whole different rant.. back to my stupid HOA... the yellow ribbons have actually been up since february so it made me laugh to see May, but whatever. The welcome home banner and the flag bunting went up 3 weeks ago. Yes, ok fine, it's been up a while. Get over it.

What upsets me is this whole 'several complaints' thing. It annoys the ever loving heck out of me when people hide behind these HOAs. If you have a problem with me, my house, my property or WHATEVER, come to me about it! Don't go running to an HOA or some other third party that does little more than take my money and pretend to 'maintain' common areas while they police the neighborhood for perceived and imagined violations. I've read our covenants. I know what they say, thank you. They were written so vaguely that honestly half the things that they send us letters about are things that the sales associate up at the model just doesn't like. She drives through the neighborhood and if she doesn't like the color of the petunias in your front flower beds she'll find a covenant that you're in violation of. She once told me that I couldn't grow corn in my garden because she didn't like the way it looked. If I had a fence then it would be ok because it wouldn't be seen.. I told her I was going *plant* my fence and that it was going to be completely of corn. And sunflowers. And whatever else plant she didn't like. She wasn't terribly amused by that. I thought it was hilarious. And honestly we don't have any 'penalties' built into our convenants anyway. The most they can do is ban me from the common areas. Shoot. I can't go play on the playground. There goes my afternoon.

But if my 'neighbors' have a problem with my property it's just cowardace and immaturity to go running to our little mini-dictatorship to tell on me. We're adults. We OWN our properties and I'm getting a little sick of people telling me what I can and cannot do on it. We aren't in high school anymore and this isn't the quad at lunchtime. If you have a problem with me...TELL ME. The biggest problem with ours is that the builder is still in charge. We as homeowners have absolutely no voting power or control until 70% of lots are sold. I'm full aware that once we take over the HOA it won't be as bad. But until then we are at the mercy of a Sales Associate and her boss who don't even live here. If we'd had a choice we wouldn't have bought where there was an HOA. But every neighborhood in Middle TN has them now. At least where we could afford.

I respect that the covenants are in place for a reason. I respect that they are meant to assist in maintaining the property values of the neighborhood. But honestly, I have a hard time believing that a front porch lined with yellow ribbons when there is a blue star banner in the window is somehow depreciating the neighborhood. I find it hard to believe that flag bunting and a Welcome Home banner would make anyone anything other than happy to know that he was home safely. We are not a neighborhood of strangers. We are friendly enough that I know almost everyone's names and they asked about him for the last 7 months.

Please know that this isn't meant to be political in any way, but I'd like to ask the people who 'complained' if they've ever sent someone they love to war. If they've ever spent weeks on end barely sleeping, or have gone significant lengths of time without hearing from their loved one. I will turn 28 at the end of this week. I've done it twice in the last 4 years. And I will very likely do it several more times in the years to come. Every six months I prepare Marines and their families to do it. Most of them are on their second and third trips over there. And it sucks. But we do it anyway because it's what we do. And in a society that honestly would probably rather forget that we even have anyone over there, I'm going to do everything that I can to remind them. I'm going to deck my house in yellow ribbons. I'm going to put a blue star flag in the Window. I will keep a candle burning (electric don't worry) in my window to stand vigil and guide my warrior home according to the traditions that I was taught. And if I want to keep a Welcome Home Banner up for 3 weeks after he's returned I'm going to. I've earned that right in heartache, lonliness and tears. HOA be damned. This stuff stays up a heck of alot longer around the bases. No one sends them letters. I was asked to comply within 5 days. I took the bunting and the banner down today. I kept the yellow ribbons up. And they'll stay up until they ALL come home.

 

[carter]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Well said.

I wish more people had felt like this in the early 70's. :fedora:

 

[BegintheBeguine]

This boils my blood.

 

[GoldLeaf]

HOA's like that drive me nutty. They are tied into what I do professionally, and I can't stand them. I am a community planner, and one of the things that I like to see in subdivisions is individuality (to a reasonable extent). In a country that is increasingly sedentary, lively neighborhoods should be encouraged. It is much more interesting to take a walk, and more likely to occur, when there is something visually interesting to look at.

And when people get out and walk, it fosters a sense of community, of belonging. That is important for a lot of reasons. One of them being a familiarity with your neighbors and a rapport with them so that when "issues" crop up, they can be dealt with in a friendly way.

I am sorry that respecting our men and women in service can be viewed as detrimental to a neighborhood. ::sigh:: And I am sorry that you are being faced with this, Nash.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Support of your Support!

Just post the President's name and the address of your HOA here and we'll flood them with letters of support for your decorations. Can you say, "Bill O'Reilly!"?

-dixon cannon

 

[carter]

Just post the President's name and the address of your HOA here and we'll flood them with letters of support for your decorations. Can you say, "Bill O'Reilly!"?
-dixon cannon

Good idea. Let's do it.

I'll hazard a guess and say that signs posted in front yards that said "My son/daughter is a pround member of the school team/club" would be accepted and never cited. Why? Because the builder wants families to buy his houses.

I can understand why a certain amount of conformity (shudder) would be desirable from the builder's perspective. However, blanket policies subjectively enforced are just ridiculous. What is he building, some sort of Stepford community?

What should families with loved ones in harms way do? Live on a military base? That's not going to happen. Not all military families chose to live in base housing, base housing is not always available, and not all assignments are near a base. To say that the only place where recognition of a husband/wife/son/daughter/father/mother's daily existence in a war zone is acceptable is on a military base is nonsensical. To ask this of those who wait is just maddening.

The people serving are Our People, those who wait are Our People, and those who fail to grasp this are *#+*&! idiots.

Until they all come home. (salute)

 

[Nashoba]

Just post the President's name and the address of your HOA here and we'll flood them with letters of support for your decorations. Can you say, "Bill O'Reilly!"?

-dixon cannon

lol. If we had a president. We don't. Part of the problem is that I live in the first phase of a development with 2 or 3 phases. The developer holds three votes for our every one (not that ANYTHING has EVER come up for a vote) and they are in complete control. The Realtor at the model and her boss represent the builder and so they drive through the neighborhood and if they don't like things....well then they'll make stuff up.
We have rather stringent rules about our fences and one of my neighbors followed all of those rules but built their fence to have the posts exposed and the planks in between the posts. It's a beautiful fence that is slightly different than the planks all the way around with the posts hidden. They made sure it complied....they were actually told that their fence was too nice for our neighborhood. That a certain demographic of people bought in our neighborhood and that it would cause problems because not everyone could afford a fence that nice. Most of our neighborhood are middle class young couples with children. We're not poor trash. We're certainly not 5000sqft mansion rich but we certainly aren't a 'shifty' demographic. Oh and that their stain color was too red. We were LIVID when that came down...needless to say that the property manager was relieved of her job shortly after that and we got a new manager. But still.
Like I said, I understand their purpose. I even respect their purpose. But don't hide behind 'several complaints' from my 'neighbors'. Call a spade a fracking spade and say what it is. I'll be honest. I'd almost be shocked if any of my actual neighbors complained. This has nothing to do with my neighbors. This has everything to do with power.
We have a 25ft flagpole in our front yard that my husbad put in 2 weeks after we closed on the house. We proudly fly the American Flag and the Marine Corps flag. They tried to tell us we couldn't have the flag pole and my husband told them to show him where it said he couldn't. EVERYONE in the neighborhood knows our house. We're the only one with the flagpole. And it was funny becuase when they tried to hassle us, our neighbors responded by putting up flag brackets on their houses and putting out their flags. We're still the only ones with a 25ft pole, but the builder got the hint. And I just re-read my covenants. There's nothing in there that says I can't have the yellow ribbons up. So they're staying. I'm going to take down the old ones and make two huge new ones to go in the entranceway of my porch.

ahh but here I go ranting again.....

 

[Pilgrim]

I have been President of my HOA for several years, and I believe that a well-run HOA with reasonable covenants can be an asset to the neighborhood. Unfortunately, not all HOAs have what I consider an appropriate management style.

In the case cited here, my response to the HOA would be something like this:

"I will be glad to discuss the comments you have received with the individuals who sent them to you, but at this time, not with the HOA. I consider it highly inappropriate for them to contact the HOA without contacting me first. Until and unless the individuals who complained contact me with their concerns individually, I do not plan to take any action in regard to your letter. If my neighbors do not have enough openness or courage to communicate with me directly, I am not interested in encouraging them to hide behind the facade of the HOA."

There's nothing rude about that - but it would be an honest attempt to put the burden back where it belongs - on the individuals.

And unless your HOA addresses this in its covenants or has some general 'nuisance" provision, chances are that it will get them off your back.

 

[Nashoba]

I'll hazard a guess and say that signs posted in front yards that said "My son/daughter is a pround member of the school team/club" would be accepted and never cited. Why? Because the builder wants families to buy his houses.

Actually we do have a clause in our covenants that prohibits signs. We are allowed I think a 2ftx3ft sign or something for renting out and the like and I was probably pushing it with the 2ft x 6ft banner I strung up across the portch but my personal opinion was frack it. He's earned the welcome home. And like I said. There isn't much they can do to me. We don't have any monetary penalties built into our covenants. The most they can do is ban me from the common areas and the only common area we have that isn't a drainage easment is the playground. If I want to swing on the swing set or go down a slide, I'll go to the part. It's a nicer slide than we have anyway.

What should families with loved ones in harms way do? Live on a military base? That's not going to happen. Not all military families chose to live in base housing, base housing is not always available, and not all assignments are near a base. To say that the only place where recognition of a husband/wife/son/daughter/father/mother's daily existence in a war zone is acceptable is on a military base is nonsensical. To ask this of those who wait is just maddening.

I think what really bothered me was the 'thanks for your service we're real grateful.....BUT.....' That bothered me more than anything. We don't live near my husbands duty station. My husband's unit is in Atlanta. We live in TN. 4 hours. I commute practically weekly right now to serve our Marines and I will until my husband demobilizes in November. He works very hard and even with him back in the states if I'm not there in Atl with him we barely get to talk to each other. Even when I am there, I work for the unit too and I still barely talk to him until we're off work. I'm not asking everyone to support the war. Heck I'm not even asking anyone to support our troops. I'm only asking them to understand and respect those of us that do. The whole thanks but thing just bothered me. And there's nothing that says I can't keep flag bunting up year round. The only thing it actually specifies are christmas decorations. I'm simply being patriotic

 

[BeBopBaby]

And that's exactly why I will never buy a proprty governed by a Home Owner's Association.

They'd have a heart attack if they saw the big tiki heads, pink flamingos and various other art oddities in my yard! My yard is my own to do with it as I please. lol

 

[sweetfrancaise]

HOA's make me angry too, and your example is a perfect reason of their unfair power holds. You own the land, and the house that's built on it, so why can't you do as you darn well please? Next thing you know they'll be inside your house telling you what you can't do with your interior design. They forced us to repave our driveway (from asphalt to cement) this year, although our neighbors have the same paving. I don't get their idea of selective complaints, not at all. My sympathies and support, Nashoba!

 

[Paisley]

I have been President of my HOA for several years, and I believe that a well-run HOA with reasonable covenants can be an asset to the neighborhood. Unfortunately, not all HOAs have what I consider an appropriate management style.

In the case cited here, my response to the HOA would be something like this:

"I will be glad to discuss the comments you have received with the individuals who sent them to you, but at this time, not with the HOA. I consider it highly inappropriate for them to contact the HOA without contacting me first. Until and unless the individuals who complained contact me with their concerns individually, I do not plan to take any action in regard to your letter. If my neighbors do not have enough openness or courage to communicate with me directly, I am not interested in encouraging them to hide behind the facade of the HOA."

There's nothing rude about that - but it would be an honest attempt to put the burden back where it belongs - on the individuals.

And unless your HOA addresses this in its covenants or has some general 'nuisance" provision, chances are that it will get them off your back.

Where I live, we don't have an HOA, but we do have code enforcement. I guess I "hide" behind code enforcement, but only because some of the individuals who need confronting are a little scary.

 

[Mocheman]

Down here in Florida where I am if you want to live anywhere that's nice and not on a dirt road you have to live in a community. And yes they can be a pain in the arse.

Having said that if you are unable to come to an agreement with the association I would go to your local press. Either the newspaper or the local tv station. This seems like a story they would be happy to champion.

Good luck!

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Sorry, Nashoba, to hear about your cranky & misguided HOA. I guess they wouldn't take a liking to that blinking neon SEMPER FI sign I was planning to send you for the holidays. lol

 

[Nashoba]

PSG: lol lol lol.....please don't plant that idea into my husbands head...he'd probably do it...I swear sometimes I think my house is a shrine to the Corps...

It's not so much that I mind the HOA itself, it serves a purpose. Heck they do sort of maintain the common areas (pathetically, but they do); it's the sporadic and seemingly random enforcement of perceived rules, some of which don't actually exist. They seem to pick and choose who they hassle and I've noticed that its a reflection of how many problems you've caused for the builder. Those who have fought to have stuff fixed or what not have been picked on the most. I'm in a fight with them right now to fix something that should be under warranty. This house is less than two years old. We built it. I watched it go up. And those of us who have fought them to fix things that they don't want to because they don't understand the value of doing the right thing, get singled out. It's a power thing. pure and simple. And when we do take over the HOA you'd better believe that I am going to be involved.

I took down the bunting and the banner, I'd been meaning to for a week or so now but I was called back to Atl early to take care of a couple of issues that came up and to give the next round of Pre-deployment briefs to our Marines on the next rotation. It was more to do with the fact that I don't like being told that I have to because of some unknown complaints. I don't like the builder pretending to be my neighbors complaining. They've done this before when a group of people in the neighborhood talked about getting together and going to the press with our complaints. They sent out this anonymous letter pretending to be a 'concerned' neighbor in the community saying that going to the press would hurt our property values. It was painfully obvious who was behind the letter and the fact that they tried to pass it off as one of the homeowners was just an insult to our intelligence. I think it just goes to a larger issue of I'm sick of people not taking responsibility for themselves and I'm tired of people not doing the right thing in business. If I screw something up or don't do it to the customer's satisfaction, I FIX IT. Pure and simple. The customer may not always be right, but I'd sure as heck like to keep him happy! It's just too easy for them to do the right thing. I live in the South for heavens sake. Aren't we supposed to have some code of decency down here? I mean aren't we supposed to be known for our courtesy? Or just for being sugar sweet to your face while twisting the knife in your back? Because that's exactly the way we're being treated by this builder with the HOA

and there I go on my rant again....Thanks for all the love too y'all....I needed the laugh I've gotten from some of your comments.

 

[Pilgrim]

There's a relatively simple solution to this. Go to the neighbors. Get them on your side. Then go to the HOA meeting and start changing the rules. Even if the builder currently has more votes, those will shift to homeowners as the remaining lots are developed. If your problems are legitimate, then people will listen and vote with you. If not, reality check: either you're out of line or need to move.

A HOA can easily be steered by a small group of dedicated people. Most homeowners don't take part in decision-making other than voting on key issues once a year, and can be persuaded to see things your way. An HOA is nothing other than a small scale government - and those involved in it can impact its direction immediately. If you don't like what the board is doing, get on the board. It's easy, because most boards have to go scrounging for members. Load the board with people who think like you and go for it.

Just don't make the problem worse. The only thing that's more scary than a board that's arbitrary is one that knows Truth. People who know Truth scare the hell outa me.

And for those who say they'll never live where there's an HOA -good luck. In metro areas, the number of neighborhoods not governed by HOAs are few and far between. And on the whole, I honestly believe that HOAs solve a lot more problems than they create.

 

[carter]

Doesn't the Marine Corps sponsor Toys for Tots?

I think you should put a HUGE TFT banner/sign up just after Thanksgiving with a drop-off container for the toys.

Let's see if the builder is anti-children as well.

Also, we have lake property where the developer was the owner of the HOA until 75% of the lots were sold. Well, they never sold 75% because most were not lakefront. We paid dues for several years and received little in return. Then the developer died and it was discovered that there hadn't been an HOA for the past two years because the builder had not renewed the charter with the state of Texas. He had simply pocketed the funds.
We won't get our money back but we don't have to pay for nothing anymore either.

 

[RedHotRidinHood]

Oh honey, I feel for you. I won't ever live in a community like that either, and this is a perfect reason why. They are very unfair and lacking good old common sense...and I cannot believe how anyone could be offended by all the things you put up for your husband. They should all be on their idiotic, smallminded knees thanking him for his service! And yours-I know you work your patootie off doing what you do. I hate chickens**t crap like this.

You sound like you aren't going to take it lying down, though...good for you! The best thing to do is get involved in the HOA when you can-and kick some serious keister. You know you are in the right about this. What a waste of time for them to do this to you.

Keep us posted, chickie.

 

[Gary Crumrine]

Would you permit me to respond to your inquiry? As background, please understand that I am a U.S. Army vet (1962 - 1965), a real estate appraiser (certified general) for 25 (+) years, and a director of our HOA for the past 3 years.

I understand the passion you must feel when you attempt to demonstrate your concern for military personal, especially family members. But the freedom to decorate your property in any manner you wish as an expression of your passion was given up when you moved into a restricted development. Just as your "right" to display ribbons and banners was relinquished, so did your neighbors give up their "right" to paint the exterior of their houses neon purple, to illuminate their homes with evening searchlights, to store engineless automobiles in their front yards, to play music at top volume, etc.

The benefits received from abiding by the CC&R's you voluntarily agreed to when you moved into the development include, but are not limited to, mazimizing property values. What you are doing, while obviously self-satisfying, violates your agreement.

Additionally, to position yourself as you have when you state that your neighbors, if they objected, should simply communicate directly with you is a non-starter. You do not appear to be someone others may see as reasonably accepting of any views but your own. The HOA exists, partially, to act as a conduit in these cases. It should be noted that the HOA may act on it's own without complaint from any member, however, and perhaps that's what has happened in this case.

Finally, from an appraisal viewpoint, it is important to remember an unofficial valuation rule of thumb: "If it's different, it's bad". This doesn't mean that every change is inappropriate, but it does mean that the presumption is that any change from the norm has to be justified in the marketplace. It is quite possible that, by violating the CC&R's you agreed to when you wanted to move in, you have caused a decline in the values of nearby properties.

In my opinion, you have left the reservation.

 

[RedHotRidinHood]

Would you permit me to respond to your inquiry? As background, please understand that I am a U.S. Army vet (1962 - 1965), a real estate appraiser (certified general) for 25 (+) years, and a director of our HOA for the past 3 years.

I understand the passion you must feel when you attempt to demonstrate your concern for military personal, especially family members. But the freedom to decorate your property in any manner you wish as an expression of your passion was given up when you moved into a restricted development. Just as your "right" to display ribbons and banners was relinquished, so did your neighbors give up their "right" to paint the exterior of their houses neon purple, to illuminate their homes with evening searchlights, to store engineless automobiles in their front yards, to play music at top volume, etc.

The benefits received from abiding by the CC&R's you voluntarily agreed to when you moved into the development include, but are not limited to, mazimizing property values. What you are doing, while obviously self-satisfying, violates your agreement.

Additionally, to position yourself as you have when you state that your neighbors, if they objected, should simply communicate directly with you is a non-starter. You do not appear to be someone others may see as reasonably accepting of any views but your own. The HOA exists, partially, to act as a conduit in these cases. It should be noted that the HOA may act on it's own without complaint from any member, however, and perhaps that's what has happened in this case.

Finally, from an appraisal viewpoint, it is important to remember an unofficial valuation rule of thumb: "If it's different, it's bad". This doesn't mean that every change is inappropriate, but it does mean that the presumption is that any change from the norm has to be justified in the marketplace. It is quite possible that, by violating the CC&R's you agreed to when you wanted to move in, you have caused a decline in the values of nearby properties.

In my opinion, you have left the reservation.

With all due respect, Nashoba is one of the nicest people on here, and very respectful of other people's views. She has shown herself to be very open minded and I know from very personal experience, she is extremely kind. I cannot see how she would be seen as unreasonable by anyone!

I cannot see how in the world what she has done would cause a decline in property values. That actually shocks me on so many levels, the very idea.

It frightens me, a world where people have to live by nitpicky little rules in order to satisfy a small group of busybodies. I can see the rules against painting your house neon purple, but a display of patriotic support in an American community? Common sense flies out the window again. I can see the benefits to an HOA, but Nash's situation sounds like a nightmare.

Please forgive me if I sound angry. I am not trying to attack anyone personally. I just get so mad at the lack of common sense these days.