Himel Bros jacket, 1st winter update

[Fonzie]

@TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead can correct me if I’m wrong here, but what I think he was trying to say is that justified criticism is welcomed and Himel got ripped but it kept going and going and there’s a point where it’s enough and no further ripping is needed. Anything further doesn’t feel like criticism anymore, it feels like punishment.

Why should this punishment that you claim stop, if he’s the one that keeps on posting on IG victim blaming, blocking TFL members for no reason and making pathetic attempts on YouTube to save face instead of doing the right thing and own up his mistakes?

As long as he keeps on going, we as a community have the right to answer back.

 

[Marc mndt]

I saw 4 Himel’s at Mildblend and they all looked like Damon’s jacket. Factually, the number I’ve seen that DON’T look like that (in my experience) are in fact the minority.

And even when a jacket looks neat to the untrained eye, it can still be of poor construction quality.

Certainly not robot level precision but pretty neat overall

I hope you don't mind me using the pics of your Imperial. See all those 'dots'? That's the bobbin thread showing, which indicates a thread tension issue: the upper thread is tighter than the bobbin thread.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Why should this punishment that you claim stop, if he’s the one that keeps on posting on IG victim blaming, blocking TFL members for no reason and making pathetic attempts on YouTube to save face instead of doing the right thing and own up his mistakes?

As long as he keeps on going, we as a community have the right to answer back.

If you think he deserves it, keep at it. I'm not here to defend him. Just to note I feel like a few comments have crossed the line in the "spirit of TFL" and have turned from criticism to hate for the guy and trying to bury him. What do I know at the end of the day. Just another opinion. I guess I'd make more friends by just piling on. Echo, echo, echo...

 

[Fonzie]

If you think he deserves it, keep at it. I'm not here to defend him. Just to note I feel like a few comments have crossed the line in the "spirit of TFL" and have turned from criticism to hate for the guy and trying to bury him. What do I know at the end of the day. Just another opinion. I guess I'd make more friends by just piling on. Echo, echo, echo...

I don’t think members here are pilling on, I believe is more a case that there’s a majority that sees his behaviour as abusive and would like him to change, and do the right thing.

I doubt anyone wants HB to go broke, but that he treats his customers with the respect they deserve and paid for.

 

[jeo]

Why should this punishment that you claim stop, if he’s the one that keeps on posting on IG victim blaming, blocking TFL members for no reason and making pathetic attempts on YouTube to save face instead of doing the right thing and own up his mistakes?

As long as he keeps on going, we as a community have the right to answer back.

Because everything that was justly criticized has been said like 5 times over already. He's been chewed up and spit out.

If the issue for you is that he keeps responding through IG/youtube, and because of that you think that it shouldn't stop, that's your right to think that and by all means continue.

And like I said before in this thread, I do respect yours and everyone else's opinion.

I'm certainly not judge, jury and executioner.

 

[red devil]

@TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead can correct me if I’m wrong here, but what I think he was trying to say is that justified criticism is welcomed and Himel got ripped but it kept going and going and there’s a point where it’s enough and no further ripping is needed. Anything further doesn’t feel like criticism anymore, it feels like punishment.

The reason it keeps going is simply because he keeps posting nonsense... as I said a few pages earlier, this will continue as long as he keeps this up. Maybe you should get in touch and try to reason with him - in case he did not ban you like other good customers?

See I was typing about getting in touch and I am reminded he banned good customers... bah...

 

[sweetfights]

I think at 5'9" and with a 46"chest Damon had to go custom and took Himel's "bespoke" line.

We have similar challenges

 

[jeo]

And even when a jacket looks neat to the untrained eye, it can still be of poor construction quality.

I hope you don't mind me using the pics of your Imperial. See all those 'dots'? That's the bobbin thread showing, which indicates a thread tension issue: the upper thread is tighter than the bobbin thread.

View attachment 510141 View attachment 510142 View attachment 510143 View attachment 510144

Don't mind at all.

I see what you're pointing at, but I also see that it isn't everywhere. Are you sure that's not just from wear and all the pushing/pulling? I'm not a sewing expert, but I'd imagine if the tension is set incorrectly we'd see that all over?

I also said it's not robot level precision like some of my Japanese jackets but that it's pretty neat overall. Despite what you're showing here, I still think it's pretty neat overall.

 

[red devil]

I'm certainly not judge, jury and executioner.

I posted my previous message before seeing all the other messages after... this thread is still moving fast.

In any case, nobody is alll of this here either.

 

[Marc mndt]

Are you sure that's not just from wear and all the pushing/pulling? I'm not a sewing expert, but I'd imagine if the tension is set incorrectly we'd see that all over?

Nope, not from wear. This article explains:

http://www.sewschool.co.uk/sewing-machine-thread-tension/

I can understand that it doesn't bother you. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a construction flaw.

 

[jeo]

Nope, not from wear. This article explains:

http://www.sewschool.co.uk/sewing-machine-thread-tension/

I can understand that it doesn't bother you. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a construction flaw.

I appreciate you sharing that.

I read it, but I couldn't really quite understand from reading that though why there is tension errors in one area of a stitch line and not on other areas of that same stitch line.

 

[Marc mndt]

I appreciate you sharing that.

I read it, but I couldn't really quite understand from reading that though why there is tension errors in one area of a stitch line and not on other areas of that same stitch line.

I've never touched a sewing machine in my entire life so I cannot give you the answer. Maybe tfl members with hands on sewing experience can chime in here?

 

[Will Zach]

^^
Perhaps the sewing machine is not holding tension consistently, needs adjustment. Just a guess.

 

[Damon141]

My Himel jackets were also very well made and I would not have accepted the quality of the OP's jacket at all.

You have been very vocal on the stitching standards you expect so I'm sure you would have spoken up if you had my jacket

. People post photos of defective products all over the net, I am not sure why Himel should be exempt.

Exactly, what is the big deal. People complain in my business and we just give an apologetic response on google and offer a refund

You don't see RMC, Thedi, Freewheelers, Schott, Vanson and the rest coming to a public forum to defend their honor, it's weird

There's no doubt Dave brought a lot of this on himself with the brash statements, POV, poor big picture thinking, etc. let's get that out of the way first.

But there's a lot of extra salt in these posts. Don't know how many of us would react if something bad we did at work was publicly discussed. Feels like some of you are starting to go after his livelihood and potentially the people that work there too. I'm going to say it straight up, this feels very cancel culture/woke type BS to me. Obviously not in a political or cultural sense, but what you're expecting the end game to be.

Himel wants this to go away. Expecting it to go away. There are clearly people in his ear saying to just ignore the issue of he complaining customer the issue will disappear

Does anyone really want to give him the satisfaction?

 

[Marc mndt]

You don't see RMC, Thedi, Freewheelers, Schott, Vanson and the rest coming to a public forum to defend their honor, it's weird

Here's a 'Thedi thread'.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

You have been very vocal on the stitching standards you expect so I'm sure you would have spoken up if you had my jacket

Exactly, what is the big deal. People complain in my business and we just give an apologetic response on google and offer a refund

You don't see RMC, Thedi, Freewheelers, Schott, Vanson and the rest coming to a public forum to defend their honor, it's weird

Himel wants this to go away. Expecting it to go away. There are clearly people in his ear saying to just ignore the issue of he complaining customer the issue will disappear

Does anyone really want to give him the satisfaction?

Want to be clear about something. You have every right to feel however you want to feel about HB, Dave, his brand, etc. etc. You were personally affected by it, so go at it, my friend.

 

[TheOldFashioned]

Himel during video:

Himel before video:

Himel after video:

The Tribal Chief has spoken.

Guess I'll be banned now too. Oh wait...I don't have Instagram.

 

[TheDonEffect]

There's no doubt Dave brought a lot of this on himself with the brash statements, POV, poor big picture thinking, etc. lets get that out of the way first.

But there's a lot of extra salt in these posts. Don't know how many of us would react if something bad we did at work was publicly discussed. Feels like some of you are starting to go after his livelihood and potentially the people that work there too. I'm going to say it straight up, this feels very cancel culture/woke type BS to me. Obviously not in a political or cultural sense, but what you're expecting the end game to be.

Having owned 75+ jackets (that sounds really crazy to me LOL), I've had some sort of issues with all the brands. My Thedi had a bad zipper that broke after about 30 wears. My Field leather has a quirky patten issue at least for my body shape. Certainly Aero patterns have been discussed over and over. None of that has soured me to those brands. Still own many of them and have orders on the way. Not necessarily because of the customer service response or how the owner spoke about it, but more so because of the bulk of better work.

I mentioned it before a few times and people responded by saying they weren't doing it, but sorry, you are. Some of you are taking a bad example and some other previous bad examples, and slippery slopping it into all the jackets are like that and/or if you like his jackets, you're ignorant. And you're justifying it because Dave makes it pretty easy with his lame statements.

i took a very close look at the Avro I have, which I bought used, btw. So I'm not some rose colored Tribe member who is desperately and blindly trying to defend my luxurious purchase. Overall, the jacket at a new or used price is in the same space as what other jackets I have paid that much for are in (predominantly I'd say my RMCs are the best apples to apples) and although more expensive than my Fields and Thedis, if I'm being fair the HB is superior in some category or another. Leather, liner, hardware are top notch. Craftsmanship at least on my jacket is very nice (amazing details) and 8.5-9/10 stitching. Pattern is fantastic.

Maybe I hit the HB lotto Anyway, don't expect to change any minds.

If this is cancel culture, then Himel is victim blaming. His pompous attitude is keeping this discussion alive.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

You have been very vocal on the stitching standards you expect so I'm sure you would have spoken up if you had my jacket

Exactly, what is the big deal. People complain in my business and we just give an apologetic response on google and offer a refund

You don't see RMC, Thedi, Freewheelers, Schott, Vanson and the rest coming to a public forum to defend their honor, it's weird

Himel wants this to go away. Expecting it to go away. There are clearly people in his ear saying to just ignore the issue of he complaining customer the issue will disappear

Does anyone really want to give him the satisfaction?

Indeed I would have. I did a review on the jacket with some minor flaws and I pointed them out but said I was satisfied overall. If I got a jacket today with that same construction quality, I would still be happy overall. It's definitely sad to see what happened with your jacket, especially given how solid the fit looks. Makes it even more gutting IMO.

Well, we have had other makers defend themselves before. Sometimes on this forum, sometimes by other means. I've had makers and brand owners email or dm me about negative things I said in my written or video reviews. I think some of us will remember BK on here...

Also, some brands just don't care or don't speak English. Beyond the fact that the Japanese brand owners don't usually speak English, they aren't bothered by anything we say.

It is well known that RMC loses money, but the owner is so rich that it doesn't matter. Freewheelers does make money but their fans are even more ride or die than RMC fans (trust me, I'm one of them) and plus, the owner Atsushi is too busy racing motorcycles on beaches to care what anyone on the internet says about his products.

This is not to defend how HB is handling this situation in any way. I just want to point out that a maker replying to what people on the internet say about their products is not unique, especially not in the world of leather jackets. I know this firsthand. Again, this does not make it OK by any means. I've largely been quiet because all my experiences with Dave have been fantastic. I love talking with him, but I'm not going to pretend this is OK.

At this point, I'd just try to sell the jacket and move on. If it were me, I would never get over the feeling of not being completely satisfied. My first custom leather jacket fit me well, but was poorly stitched and I tried to get over it, but never did and sold it far later than I should have.

 

[Damon141]

Indeed I would have. I did a review on the jacket with some minor flaws and I pointed them out but said I was satisfied overall. If I got a jacket today with that same construction quality, I would still be happy overall. It's definitely sad to see what happened with your jacket, especially given how solid the fit looks. Makes it even more gutting IMO.

Well, we have had other makers defend themselves before. Sometimes on this forum, sometimes by other means. I've had makers and brand owners email or dm me about negative things I said in my written or video reviews. I think some of us will remember BK on here...

Also, some brands just don't care or don't speak English. Beyond the fact that the Japanese brand owners don't usually speak English, they aren't bothered by anything we say.

It is well known that RMC loses money, but the owner is so rich that it doesn't matter. Freewheelers does make money but their fans are even more ride or die than RMC fans (trust me, I'm one of them) and plus, the owner Atsushi is too busy racing motorcycles on beaches to care what anyone on the internet says about his products.

This is not to defend how HB is handling this situation in any way. I just want to point out that a maker replying to what people on the internet say about their products is not unique, especially not in the world of leather jackets. I know this firsthand. Again, this does not make it OK by any means. I've largely been quiet because all my experiences with Dave have been fantastic. I love talking with him, but I'm not going to pretend this is OK.

At this point, I'd just try to sell the jacket and move on. If it were me, I would never get over the feeling of not being completely satisfied. My first custom leather jacket fit me well, but was poorly stitched and I tried to get over it, but never did and sold it far later than I should have.

When I talked with Dave on the phone he was a bit brash at first but after I started asking about vintage jackets and other makers he loosened up and shared a great deal of info with me. We all talked for like an hour one time, talking about working out and all kinds of things. That's what surprised me the most about this.
I know he wouldn't find my jacket acceptable but at this point it's just a pride thing, he thinks I used bully tactics to achieve my goal when it really wasn't like that. He could have just ended this thread at page 3 or 4.

I'll keep the jacket because I wouldn't want to upset somebody else if they don't like it plus it fits good and they the resale market is so bad for most brands. That's why I was trying to get the best I could so i could keep it for as long as it fits. No loss really as I have a jacket that fits.

RMC? They loose money on their jackets or all their gear?
Must be a labor of love which I feel many of the brands we talk about are too