Himel Bros. Grizzly Jacket Review

[Sloan1874]

I would say that my 'new era' jackets have been, on balance, less rigid.

 

[ton312]

I agree and I'm thinking that's probably a combination of the hides Horween is putting out and the selections Aero is making. For me that initial stiffness and break-in is what attracts me to the leather. I had a very early M/C jacket that was confirmed to be built in the late 80's, it had a leather tag with gold screen printed type. In 2010 it was still standing on its own and it had seen quite a bit of wear.

 

[RJR]

I would say that my 'new era' jackets have been, on balance, less rigid.

+1

 

[Edward]

I have heard wildly different claims about Aero's leather. Some say it is rigid as chobham armor and others say it is quite supple and easy to break in. I don't know who to believe haha

Inevitably, it's going to vary. Leather is an organic substance; no two cows / horses / goats / w.h.y. will ever be just exactly the same. There will also be an inevitable bit of a difference between differentg batches that are tanned (the more so the more there's a human element in the process). That said, one of the biggest variations will always be the subjective human assessment of the end product. I've owned three Horween CXL FQHH jackets and handled many more, and I've always found the hide to break in very quickly and be as soft as goat or midweight steer (if still a bit thicker than many of those) in no time. Other folks will, of course, prefer something much lighter and thinner from the off. Somebody who really likes (to take an extreme example) lamb jackets for comfort is unlikely ever to be all that fussed on a CXL horse.

Given what we know now, I also suspect that it's possible some folks experienced Storse, thinking in was FQHH. The storse jackets were known for being significantly heavier than regular FQHH.

I agree and I'm thinking that's probably a combination of the hides Horween is putting out and the selections Aero is making. For me that initial stiffness and break-in is what attracts me to the leather. I had a very early M/C jacket that was confirmed to be built in the late 80's, it had a leather tag with gold screen printed type. In 2010 it was still standing on its own and it had seen quite a bit of wear.

I'm much the same. I like a variety of hies, but there's also something that keeps bringing me back to the FQHH; for me too the break-in is part of the fun. I wonder how many of us who favour a hide that needs some breaking in cut our teeth on bike leathers in the eighties? I've always put that down to colouring my leather preferences to a significant degree.

 

[Monitor]

Now my Vanson, when fully rigged with belt and collar is just north of 10lbs, initially the most uncomfortable, ugly looking, suit of plastic you've ever seen. Like the stay puff marshmallow man spray painted black. Now, it's softer than lambskin but still incredibly heavy and squeaky.

lol quoted for truth. When new, Vanson is a downright horror. Ugly, shiny, plastic looking, stiff... But before you know it, it's some of the best looking leathers you've owned.

I've owned three Horween CXL FQHH jackets and handled many more, and I've always found the hide to break in very quickly and be as soft as goat or midweight steer (if still a bit thicker than many of those) in no time. Other folks will, of course, prefer something much lighter and thinner from the off. Somebody who really likes (to take an extreme example) lamb jackets for comfort is unlikely ever to be all that fussed on a CXL horse.

Also quoted for truth. I really don't understand what is it about that leather that people find so uncomfortable. Schott Steer, which is often being referred to as mid weight hide is actually much less forgiving.

 

[ton312]

I wonder how many of us who favour a hide that needs some breaking in cut our teeth on bike leathers in the eighties? I've always put that down to colouring my leather preferences to a significant degree.

Absolutely, I think every jacket purchase I've ever made has been based on, at least to some degree, a desire to improve upon my earliest bike jackets. It's funny b/c I would've been just as likely to wear my helmet without my bike than I would my leather jacket when I was younger. It was helmet, gloves, boots, a leather and my bike...and I rarely if ever separated them. Minus a short period of riding in a t-shirt, which I quickly realized was a one way ticket to becoming a plucked chicken.

 

[BobJ]

Dude - I would like to add my voice to the others here that think you and your jacket are made for each other. I've never been a grizzly fan, but your jacket is something else. The design, the construction, and the hair on hide panels make for a truly sharp looking jacket, and you wear it well. The hair on hide is so much more sleek and stylish than the mouton, which, to me, looks like a kid's jacket, or an overgrown teddy bear - which aren't necessarily bad things!

I don't have any idea about shedding, but if they really are tanned to be rugs, hopefully they will last. I know some cowboys had chaps made from hair on hide leather, that endured some serious abuse, abrasion, and weather. I hope you keep us updated on this over the next few years.

It takes some confidence to be different from everyone else, and you and your jacket do it well. Not many people have ever seen a jacket like that in the flesh, so you will stand out. But your jacket is not overdone or garish - it's stylish, tasteful, and has a cool retro vibe. Makes me wish I was young and out there blazing a path through life!

Bob

 

[Monitor]

Makes me wish I was young and out there blazing a path through life!

We all know that youth is wasted on the young anyway, Bob so now's just about the right time for you to get that Grizzly.

 

[Superfluous]

My primary experience with Horween's heavy FQHH is an Aero sample jacket received from TB. It was ridiculously rigid and uncomfortable . . . felt like a suit of armor. No way no how I would ever purchase a jacket made from that leather.

I have read varying accounts of whether Horween FQHH becomes meaningfully less rigid over time. Some report that their FQHH jacket became less rigid after several years of regular wear. Several others report that, notwithstanding several years of regular wear, their FQHH jacket never become meaningfully less rigid. Still others report relatively quick break-ins.

Given the varying reports, I will not purchase Horween FQHH because, even if it became meaningfully less rigid after several years of regular wear (no guaranty), I am not willing to endure several years of an uncomfortable jacket. I am not willing to wear a jacket 100+ times before it becomes comfortable and enjoyable to wear. This is a particular problem for me given that: (1) my local climate limits the numbers of times per year that I can wear leather jackets; and (2) I have several leather jackets in my rotation, which also limits the number of times per year that I wear any particular jacket. Therefore, my strong preference is for a jacket that requires less break-in.

The notion that Shinki HH is "light weight" is preposterous. For most people, Shinki HH is ridiculously heavy. My wife and friends regularly observe how heavy my leather jackets are. Compared to anything but industrial heavy Horween FQHH, Shinki HH is a very heavy leather. It is only when compared to Horween's heavy FQHH that Shinki is labeled a mid-weight leather. Likewise, the indirect comparison to lamb is equally misplaced. Shinki is nothing like lamb.

To be clear, Shinki has not cornered the market on desirable and/or mid-weight HHs. Several Italian tanneries make wonderful mid-weight HHs, including the Victoria tannery. Horween also makes some high quality mid-weight HHs, including Rockford and Vermont.

 

[ton312]

My primary experience with Horween's heavy FQHH is an Aero sample jacket received from TB. It was ridiculously rigid and uncomfortable . . . felt like a suit of armor. No way no how I would ever purchase a jacket made from that leather.

I have read varying accounts of whether Horween FQHH becomes meaningfully less rigid over time. Some report that their FQHH jacket became less rigid after several years of regular wear. Several others report that, notwithstanding several years of regular wear, their FQHH jacket never become meaningfully less rigid. Still others report relatively quick break-ins.

Given the varying reports, I will not purchase Horween FQHH because, even if it became meaningfully less rigid after several years of regular wear (no guaranty), I am not willing to endure several years of an uncomfortable jacket. I am not willing to wear a jacket 100+ times before it becomes comfortable and enjoyable to wear. This is a particular problem for me given that: (1) my local climate limits the numbers of times per year that I can wear leather jackets; and (2) I have several leather jackets in my rotation, which also limits the number of times per year that I wear any particular jacket. Therefore, my strong preference is for a jacket that requires less break-in.

The notion that Shinki HH is "light weight" is preposterous. For most people, Shinki HH is ridiculously heavy. My wife and friends regularly observe how heavy my leather jackets are. Compared to anything but industrial heavy Horween FQHH, Shinki HH is a very heavy leather. It is only when compared to Horween's heavy FQHH that Shinki is labeled a mid-weight leather. Likewise, the indirect comparison to lamb is equally misplaced. Shinki is nothing like lamb.

To be clear, Shinki has not cornered the market on desirable and/or mid-weight HHs. Several Italian tanneries make wonderful mid-weight HHs, including the Victoria tannery. Horween also makes some high quality mid-weight HHs, including Rockford and Vermont.

Certainly past experience is the guiding light by which other hides are judged by the folks buying them. Having owned primarily riding leathers, the Italian hide Aero offers felt remarkably light, like a vintage Brooks, compared to what I am most familiar. So I think it's reasonable to assume that if those heavier hides aren't the type you've had very much experience with in the past, it's very reasonable to say the CXL or comp weight hides seem ridiculously unnecessary and uncomfortable. And in all truth they probably are, if purpose driven gear is unimportant. My personal history stems from Cal, Vanson and like brands. Certainly tools of the trade type gear. In my youth I'd never wear a leather if I wasn't on my bike. That's certainly changed! My jacket was just another piece of equipment that would be out of place without the others. That said I've owned, maybe hundreds, of other brands like Brooks, Brimaco, Bates etc, etc ad nausea. I can think of very few makers of M\C jackets that I haven't tried/ bought and sold. Most of those makers never produced leathers I find most desirable but I still very much loved the jackets. I guess for me, as I've trimmed my collection, I look for bang for the buck (only b/c I have too). It's easier for me to justify a jacket that I can use as a tool, if need be, than one I can't. So even though I don't necessarily intend to ride in my Aeros, my philosophy is, should I need to, I can, and I can expect a reasonable amount of protection in so doing. That's just where the value hits for me. I can get a little more out of it and justify spending the money (which is no small feat while paying private school tuition). I only bristle at the notion of one maker, one hide being the best of the best and labeling everything else inferior. And I get it, we've all felt that way when we get our new jacket. I'm not mad at dude and never was. His jacket and yours SF are stunning master class pieces of art. I think my greasy ass Vanson is too.
There's certainly been a noticeable shift from when I first began using this site, when the heavier, stiffer and least forgiving leathers seemed to be all anyone cared about and I think it's a good thing. At around that time I purchased a Pegasus jacket and couldn't say enough about how much I loved the less rigid feeling, easier wearing leather ...but ultimately I returned to the CXL. And will likely never buy another jacket not made from it. This isn't a forum designed to talk about protective gear and superior riding leathers. I will say I often struggle to separate the two based solely on my past experience and that experience has no doubt significantly impacted my views.
I guess at the end of the day there's no way in Hell anyone will convince me a Himmel bests a Vanson or Aero and there's no way in Hell I'll convince anyone it does. And even trying to do so ultimately defeats the entire purpose of this place, which is simply to enjoy these wonderful things.

 

[handymike]

Each to his own for leather choice
As far as design and craftsmanship, Himel is tough to beat.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Each to his own for leather choice
As far as design and craftsmanship, Himel is tough to beat.

Exactly. It is very much based on what criteria you are judging the products on.

 

[AdeeC]

I have an Aero Grizzly and one made by Steve S. I like both but I also like the Himel version and have said this here even before the Himel Grizzly was discussed on FL. Design, materials and workmanship are impeccable. What I can't take is the price. For the price of a Himel Grizzly I could buy both of mine again plus another fine jacket with change to spare. A Himel at current exchange rates plus taxes, customs and shipping would cost about AU$5000 which is an insane amount and places it in the high end luxury market.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I have an Aero Grizzly and one made by Steve S. I like both but I also like the Himel version and have said this here even before the Himel Grizzly was discussed on FL. Design, materials and workmanship are impeccable. What I can't take is the price. For the price of a Himel Grizzly I could buy both of mine again plus another fine jacket with change to spare. A Himel at current exchange rates plus taxes, customs and shipping would cost about AU$5000 which is an insane amount and places it in the high end luxury market.

I can understand that being too much for you. That is well above the already high price paid in the US for one. I have notice Australia has problems with the high price of many imported goods.

 

[Superfluous]

the Italian hide Aero offers felt remarkably light, like a vintage Brooks

Disagree. Brooks and many other vintage jackets are made from what we here describe today as "light weight" leather (I say "today" because, back in the day, it was heavy by comparison; and I say "we here" because elsewhere, all of these hides are considered heavy weight). The best example of a modern "lighter weight" HH is the Italian HH used by Eastman for its ELMC jackets. The ELMC HH is noticeably lighter than Vicenza, Shinki or Victoria HH, and more akin to a vintage Brooks.

I've owned, maybe hundreds, of other brands like Brooks, Brimaco, Bates etc, etc ad nausea. I can think of very few makers of M\C jackets that I haven't tried/ bought and sold. Most of those makers never produced leathers I find most desirable but I still very much loved the jackets.

Exactly my prior point. Most vintage leathers are thinner than today's "mid weight" HH, let alone the heavy weight HH.

It's easier for me to justify a jacket that I can use as a tool, if need be, than one I can't. So even though I don't necessarily intend to ride in my Aeros, my philosophy is, should I need to, I can, and I can expect a reasonable amount of protection in so doing. That's just where the value hits for me. I can get a little more out of it and justify spending the money.

I apply a completely different approach and, therefore, it is not surprising that I pursue different jackets and leathers. As we both, and others, have noted throughout this thread, one's approach and purpose for buying a jacket dictate the most appropriate and desirable leather.

I only bristle at the notion of one maker, one hide being the best of the best and labeling everything else inferior.

You and me both. Just as different leathers are better for different purposes, different makers excel at different things; and no maker or leather is universally superior.

I guess at the end of the day there's no way in Hell anyone will convince me a Himmel bests a Vanson or Aero and there's no way in Hell I'll convince anyone it does. And even trying to do so ultimately defeats the entire purpose of this place, which is simply to enjoy these wonderful things.

Amen.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I'm starting to get the vibe that people think I said that Himel's jackets are better than all other jackets in every single way.

That isn't even slightly true.

 

[IXL]

My primary experience with Horween's heavy FQHH is an Aero sample jacket received from TB. It was ridiculously rigid and uncomfortable . . . felt like a suit of armor. No way no how I would ever purchase a jacket made from that leather.

I have read varying accounts of whether Horween FQHH becomes meaningfully less rigid over time. Some report that their FQHH jacket became less rigid after several years of regular wear. Several others report that, notwithstanding several years of regular wear, their FQHH jacket never become meaningfully less rigid. Still others report relatively quick break-ins.

Given the varying reports, I will not purchase Horween FQHH because, even if it became meaningfully less rigid after several years of regular wear (no guaranty), I am not willing to endure several years of an uncomfortable jacket. I am not willing to wear a jacket 100+ times before it becomes comfortable and enjoyable to wear. This is a particular problem for me given that: (1) my local climate limits the numbers of times per year that I can wear leather jackets; and (2) I have several leather jackets in my rotation, which also limits the number of times per year that I wear any particular jacket. Therefore, my strong preference is for a jacket that requires less break-in.

The notion that Shinki HH is "light weight" is preposterous. For most people, Shinki HH is ridiculously heavy. My wife and friends regularly observe how heavy my leather jackets are. Compared to anything but industrial heavy Horween FQHH, Shinki HH is a very heavy leather. It is only when compared to Horween's heavy FQHH that Shinki is labeled a mid-weight leather. Likewise, the indirect comparison to lamb is equally misplaced. Shinki is nothing like lamb.

To be clear, Shinki has not cornered the market on desirable and/or mid-weight HHs. Several Italian tanneries make wonderful mid-weight HHs, including the Victoria tannery. Horween also makes some high quality mid-weight HHs, including Rockford and Vermont.

Sissy.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Few people here have mentioned Aeros FQHH acting very different from jacket to jacket. I have seen quite a few new un-worn Horween FQHH jackets on this lorum lately where the leather was completly different to what mine looked like when new. Mine was very waxy, very shiny, ZERO grain visible through all the waxy overcoat. These jackets I saw here more recently, many posted by Carrie in their thread, looked very grainy right from the start, to a point where I considered asking whether this was actually Aeros new italian HH and she had mixed up pictures. Also, as far as that can be judged from pictures alone, these hides looked thinner than mine. I noted the same thing with some Clx Steerhide jackets Carrie posted, the leather looked thinner at seams and the other spots which make you guess thickness. I wonder whether Aeros gain of publicity and business in the past years causes troubles at Horween sourcing enough thick hides or whether it is actually an intended change towards slightly thinner hides to make the jackets attractive (and adapt) to a broader market.

 

[Monitor]

I've observed the same thing, jj. Aero's changed a whole lot since I've been paying attention. I've been through enough CXL to know the difference but the fact remains that my last HWM was the heaviest CXL I had seen and paradoxically also the softest Aero I've owned. I'm pretty sure they can still source some heavies but if I was after it, I would make sure to specifically ask for it.

...but ultimately it doesn't matter. What matters is that this jacket is completely awesome and most importantly, it is the kind of perfection Jake was after. Threads like this are exactly what this whole jacket deal is all about and God knows you can't have too many of such success stories. I wish I've had one before wasting this much time and money on jackets. Hell, I could've bought like three Himels for the kind of money I dropped on jackets that didn't work so this one working out so great for Dude is what particularly makes me happy. Too many times have I seen jackets owners were seemingly happy with pop up in the classifieds a few weeks after and it's really sad... I know how much people were looking forward to these things only to gradually realize it's just not it. But yeah, I know this one's not gonna end up on the Bay soon and that's all that matters.

I was wondering about one thing, though. Dude, you mention the stitch marks being invisible - what exactly do you mean? Could you post up some close-ups of the seams?

 

[ton312]

I've observed the same thing, jj. Aero's changed a whole lot since I've been paying attention. I've been through enough CXL to know the difference but the fact remains that my last HWM was the heaviest CXL I had seen and paradoxically also the softest Aero I've owned. I'm pretty sure they can still source some heavies but if I was after it, I would make sure to specifically ask for it.

...but ultimately it doesn't matter. What matters is that this jacket is completely awesome and most importantly, it is the kind of perfection Jake was after. Threads like this are exactly what this whole jacket deal is all about and God knows you can't have too many of such success stories. I wish I've had one before wasting this much time and money on jackets. Hell, I could've bought like three Himels for the kind of money I dropped on jackets that didn't work so this one working out so great for Dude is what particularly makes me happy. Too many times have I seen jackets owners were seemingly happy with pop up in the classifieds a few weeks after and it's really sad... I know how much people were looking forward to these things only to gradually realize it's just not it. But yeah, I know this one's not gonna end up on the Bay soon and that's all that matters.

I was wondering about one thing, though. Dude, you mention the stitch marks being invisible - what exactly do you mean? Could you post up some close-ups of the seams?

Ain't it the truth. I've wasted more $ than I care to even think about. But I'm also a bit over the top with whimsy and that's 100% my fault. I'd also like to see some close ups. Some tight photos of the level of craftsmanship that surround Dave's work, to my knowledge, haven't been posted, but I'd certainly love to see them. The cuts look fantastic and that's very easy to see but the devil's in the details.