High Armhole Operation

[dhermann1]

Just walking out the door to meet Mr Capone at the garage . . . .

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

Doesn't look like they missed. Does it feel alright, or is there an awkward feeling in the coat?

 

[Mr. Rover]

It feels a bit tight over the shoulder blades right now...and I'm thinking of letting the waist out a bit...as you can see, it's quite tight.

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

I noticed the tightness but wasn't sure if it was actually tight or appeared to be. I had the shoulders of a coat taken in and I can feel the area on the shoulders towards the neck sort of pulling the arms up, if that makes sense.

 

[Forgotten Man]

This is the suit

[bad]

Raise the arm holes on a vintage suit??? HUuuuH? It's like taking crazy pills!

No offence Ray, but, that poor, poor suit... I hope you learned your lesson young man, you shouldn't ever touch a rare as hen's teeth suit as that and frankenstein it.

You are now banned from vintage my fine friend, I know ye not.

:cry:

 

[Mr. Rover]

No offense?...No offense?:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Ha!
I'm testing the waters and picking up the tab for all the other people here who aren't brave enough or wealthy enough to have things like this performed on their suits. You don't think I'm aware of the risk I was taking? Of the capital I've committed in this exploration?

Seeing as very few people have had this done despite rumors and stories of it getting thrown around, I saw an opportunity to possibly successfully wear a vintage garment that I liked, except the jacket sat too low on me, so I sought someone to raise the jacket and armholes. It can't be done? Yes it has, and I have seen it done successfully. This one came out a success in some areas, less than stellar in some others.

And you know what? The goal of this experiment was to have armholes raised. I have had my armholes raised, but have since learned that that entails further complications that I will detail if so desired. I'm here to expand the knowledge of what's possible in tailoring. If that's not appreciated here, I'll take it elsewhere. Constructive criticism is appreciated, but don't act like I know any less about clothes than you do.

So please, don't patronize me; don't ever talk like that to me again. In the end, these are old clothes. Clothes that deserved to be appreciated, cared for, and revived for their beautiful fabrics, cuts, details, and workmanship that aren't available today, yes, but they're old clothes nonetheless.

 

[MudInYerEye]

Well said, Ray. I agree 100%.

 

[Matt Deckard]

No offense?...No offense?:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Ha!
I'm testing the waters and picking up the tab for all the other people here who aren't brave enough or wealthy enough to have things like this performed on their suits. You don't think I'm aware of the risk I was taking? Of the capital I've committed in this exploration?

Seeing as very few people have had this done despite rumors and stories of it getting thrown around, I saw an opportunity to possibly successfully wear a vintage garment that I liked, except the jacket sat too low on me, so I sought someone to raise the jacket and armholes. It can't be done? Yes it has, and I have seen it done successfully. This one came out a success in some areas, less than stellar in some others.

And you know what? The goal of this experiment was to have armholes raised. I have had my armholes raised, but have since learned that that entails further complications that I will detail if so desired. I'm here to expand the knowledge of what's possible in tailoring. If that's not appreciated here, I'll take it elsewhere. Constructive criticism is appreciated, but don't act like I know any less about clothes than you do.

So please, don't patronize me; don't ever talk like that to me again. In the end, these are old clothes. Clothes that deserved to be appreciated, cared for, and revived for their beautiful fabrics, cuts, details, and workmanship that aren't available today, yes, but they're old clothes nonetheless.

Look, we are all here to learn. There are always new things to showcase and that is the reason the Lounge is fun. I've shown off one of my suits at the QM in 2006 that had an armhole raising operation, it was the second time I tried, the first was with a bespoke suit and the second was a made to measure that just turned out awful after the outcome... balance was off and the fit was tragic. Since then I've pretty much been on a crusade to get tailors to do it right the first time.

You are a different shape and a much smaller size than I was when you had yours altered... the question is, are you happy with the outcome or do you think you wouldn't do it again?

Anyway. This whole board was founded on people who break the rules by wearing dress clothing the old fashioned way. We're on the same team and criticism is part of the game when going outside the box, don't take it to heart because we all have opinions.

The only one that really matters in the end is really your opinion.

 

[Feraud]

Kudos to you Mr. Rover for taking the effort and cost to prove or disprove what others may only speculate on.

The Lounge should be a place where we can further our knowledge of vintage clothes. The sanctimonious appreciation of vintage clothing can be left to museum curators. Whoever wears vintage clothes is contributing to the destruction of said items and in no position to judge.

So when am I going to see this suit in person?

 

[dakotanorth]

Prove or disprove?

Sometimes you don't have to pay money and potentially save OR ruin a vintage suit in order to prove the theory- sometimes research enough will work.
Like I stated in my earlier post, it is POSSIBLE, as in "Yes it could be done with man and machine" but that doesn't make it practical, ethical, reasonable, logical, etc. $150 could have bought a suit that fit correctly, then this suit can have been sold to help recoup the cost.
Learning isn't always a positive experience.

 

[Tomasso]

Kudos to you Mr. Rover for taking the effort and cost to prove or disprove what others may only speculate on.

It's not speculation but rather a consensus of opinion from people who cut clothes for a living. Here's the opinion of a tailor with over 65 years of experience; and from one of the top shirtmakers (BTW, note that he states properly done; I hope that's what we're talking about.)

 

[Mr. Rover]

Well, what I had done was to have the tailor take the jacket up from the shoulder seam and re-cut the collar (which, from what I understand is a common procedure for getting rid of the horizontal crease that forms at the shoulder blades sometimes), so it's a reduction procedure as opposed to a addition. Note, however, that the jacket sat too low on me to begin with.

 

[Forgotten Man]

So please, don't patronize me; don't ever talk like that to me again. In the end, these are old clothes. Clothes that deserved to be appreciated, cared for, and revived for their beautiful fabrics, cuts, details, and workmanship that aren't available today, yes, but they're old clothes nonetheless.

I'm tellin' ya right now kid, I'll tell anyone what I think... and I think you're wrong.

These clothes are becoming even rarer as the years go on... they are to be appreciated, I agree but, to alter something to that degree is insane. Because, it will never come out right!

12 years of experience speak louder then... how long have you done this stuff again? You may want to remember who you're talkin' to boy.

 

[MrBern]

Oooh, we should have a poll, Ray's suit: Fierce or HotMess...


Incidentally, tho I dont recommend tailoring anything more than an inch or two, I respect Rover's right to experiment as any college student should.
But the money might have been better spent.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Don't try this at home

Sometimes you don't have to pay money and potentially save OR ruin a vintage suit in order to prove the theory- sometimes research enough will work.
Like I stated in my earlier post, it is POSSIBLE, as in "Yes it could be done with man and machine" but that doesn't make it practical, ethical, reasonable, logical, etc. $150 could have bought a suit that fit correctly, then this suit can have been sold to help recoup the cost.
Learning isn't always a positive experience.

I agree completely- this was neither a practical experience( nor ethical in Forgotten Man's eyes), and I see where he is coming from. I've heard that it can't be done but over the summer I had seen it done successfully, and I had to know for myself, success or failure. I'd rather fail and be able to warn other's first hand than just repeat old wive's tales and theories.
For the record, I'm usually in the same boat as Bern, never more than 1 or 2 inches max and wouldn't recommend such a drastic alteration. Senator Jack called me from the QM a few months ago telling me he found a beautiful jacket that sat too low on him and was wondering if he should get a similar alteration done. I told him not to.

 

[Martin Stall]

Sorry to say, Dakotanorth, but your suggestion would not in any way raise the armhole, only reduce the armhole circumference, and make the chest narrower. The armhole depth would be absolutely the same.

It's possible to open the shoulders, remove sleeves and collar, and simply lift the whole coat at the shoulders. Recut collar, recut sleeves, and bob's your uncle. BUT! The entire coat would sit higher, so you have to take into account the position of the waistline, buttons, pockets.

I'ts a lot of work. You have to really like the coat a lot.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Sorry to say, Dakotanorth, but your suggestion would not in any way raise the armhole, only reduce the armhole circumference, and make the chest narrower. The armhole depth would be absolutely the same.

It's possible to open the shoulders, remove sleeves and collar, and simply lift the whole coat at the shoulders. Recut collar, recut sleeves, and bob's your uncle. BUT! The entire coat would sit higher, so you have to take into account the position of the waistline, buttons, pockets.

I'ts a lot of work. You have to really like the coat a lot.

Had that Done on a suit that was too long once... what a mess I had on my hands afterwards. Still have the jacket where the tailor tried the armhole reduction by altering the side seams... can never sell either and can't give them to goodwill in fear that someone might wear one of them and swear off suits forever.

 

[Mr. Rover]

Pics?

 

[Matt Deckard]

I'll show pics but not on me... the suits are too big now.

 

[Forgotten Man]

Ok, you know, I’ll admit it, I may have been a little rough on Ray, but, you know, I was very disappointed in his choice to make such a drastic alteration to a 82 year old suit rather then realize that it’s not his size, and sell it to a friend or someone it would fit right off the bat.

I’ve found suits that were too big for me! Yeah, believe it! It happens! However, I pass on them because, the money spent on trying to reconstruct the chest, the arm holes or side seams would be a waste… I mean, it’s about respect… respecting the fact that an item has lasted through the Jazz Age, the Great Depression, World War II, the Baby Boom, the Race for Space, it lasted HIPPIES and all the rest of the recent history to this day… then to be an “experiment” instead of maybe passing it onto someone who would cherish it for what it is. It just seemed selfish to try and make a suit that was two sizes too big to fit… I mean, why was it so important to have THIS suit?

These clothes from this far back are no longer just “Used” clothes, they are antique and will not be available for much longer… Yeah, it’s true, within the next 10 years, I’m sure these clothes will not be able to be obtained… only by serious collectors and dealers… at very high prices. And most of them will end up in museums.

I’m all about enjoying and caring for these old clothes but, gosh darn it, I’m bummed when I find a suit that’s too big or, maybe a little small for me… and I will pass on it or maybe tell a friend about it… rather then have it because I know it will fit someone better… it’s not about having the money to throw around to try things that shouldn’t be done on a vintage garment… or what have you… it’s about mating a piece with someone who it suits best! You know? Collecting sometimes is about sacrifice… we can’t have everything… no matter how bad we want it… sometimes it’s better to just let it go.