Help! Quick opinion on Kreosote boots.

[TartuWolf]

I can't say for certain if yours will be delayed, but he's not even done with boots from 2020. Ordered several pair in 2020 and 2021 and a bunch of us are now being told not until 2025 or even 2026. At that time, he told us 13 months to 24 months. Some comments are out on youtube somewhere, too. You can check in for a status and will get what looks like a pre-written email about how custom built they are, etc, etc.. We all know that if your timeframe goes from 13 months to now 4+ years, someone just isn't working.

Did you say he accepts refunds?

I recently asked on couple because so much time has past and wasn't what I agreed to, but am getting push back. Not too happy right now. I didn't sign up for that timeline. It's not even close. Hopefully you get yours in 42 months, but don't be surprised if it's more 5-7 years.

So he is refusing to refund even though it's way past due date? Wow, such arrogance.

 

[vividIT]

I can't say for certain if yours will be delayed, but he's not even done with boots from 2020. Ordered several pair in 2020 and 2021 and a bunch of us are now being told not until 2025 or even 2026. At that time, he told us 13 months to 24 months. Some comments are out on youtube somewhere, too. You can check in for a status and will get what looks like a pre-written email about how custom built they are, etc, etc.. We all know that if your timeframe goes from 13 months to now 4+ years, someone just isn't working.

Did you say he accepts refunds?

I recently asked on couple because so much time has past and wasn't what I agreed to, but am getting push back. Not too happy right now. I didn't sign up for that timeline. It's not even close. Hopefully you get yours in 42 months, but don't be surprised if it's more 5-7 years.

So he is refusing to refund even though it's way past due date? Wow, such arrogance.

Correct. His response below.

"In regard to your request for a refund I will refer you to the bottom of the page under the (CLIENT INFO) website heading. Refund policy 2015 Reference page on the website KREOSOTE does not offer a Refund for any Kustom Made to Measure Boots based on all of the pre-build Expenses that are required to begin the process of the Clients Kustom / Bespoke boot builds."

I responded back saying he unfortunately failed to deliver in a timely manner on multiple occasions. So far, no response...

I know I still won't get my boots with his next estimated dates he gave me. It'll be 4.5 - 5+ years from when I purchased them and the waitlist wasn't like it is now. I have an email from my 2020 purchases on 3/2021 that had a Reschedule Build date of Sept 2022. Which was pushed out a year from the previous build date. Still no boots 4 years later.....

I believe I read somewhere he builds two a month, and takes 30 orders per year. So if he's still working on 2020 orders and took 30 orders per year. So he would have over 120 boots to build as of today. If he only builds 2/month, he's not even meeting the quota to meet a year's worth of orders. The 4 year waitlist he has now won't be 4 years in my opinion.

 

[Monitor]

In all seriousness, how do these people sleep at night? Knowing I absolutely have to be making shoes (or whatever) for the next 10 years, would've sent me to an early grave.

 

[TartuWolf]

Imagine suing mr artisan for not honoring the promised delivery date and refusing to refund your money. I wonder how that would effect his backlog and delivery speed having to deal with legal maters. And I wonder how influencer boys like Carl (and Greg Frield?) feel about his mate Gabbard being unable to deliver promised orders to customers and still doing collaborations and refusing refund requests.

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

Granted I'm probably more impatient than a lot of people here... no way in hell I'm paying and waiting years for someone to produce outerwear. Unless you're in one of their first few batches of customers, it just seems inevitable for a situation like this to arise and then you're left holding the bag.

I'm not writing this to say I told you so - but better for others to exercise caution.

 

[Aloysius]

This is at a price tier where you could have gotten a custom last from a non Instagram/influencer maker.

 

[Aloysius]

Correction. Gabbard does not accept refunds since, considering the amount of time and money that is involved in ordering the last.

Holy crap, I missed this.

So he charges up front 4 years early because he's "ordering" the last? Which isn't even based on the customer, and he needs it for three years before he begins production? What is he, looking at a wall of lasts while he's making other shoes?

This is a scam.

At a tailor shop you pay 50% down, and that's with a normal time scale of a few months to produce your pattern and fitting.

 

[Marc mndt]

Meanwhile he shows his customers a movie clip of him hand finishing a stack of hides for a jacket collab, accompanied by some laid-back music.

What a slap in the face for all the people who trusted him with their money.

"Ten overspray coats were applied to each of the hides then hand washed and dried then burnished by hand and the overspray process was repeated resulting in a 20 layer over-sprayed Viridian Green color tone like no other."

 

[Aloysius]

Springline, which makes the custom lasts for many British shoe companies, will make you a bespoke last for £378. Being generous (because this is a direct to consumer rate; businesses would pay less), let's call that £400–so a $500 cost to order a last… requires a $2500 deposit.

 

[Marc mndt]

Springline, which makes the custom lasts for many British shoe companies, will make you a bespoke last for £378. Being generous (because this is a direct to consumer rate; businesses would pay less), let's call that £400–so a $500 cost to order a last… requires a $2500 deposit.

Running a business vs being an artisan.

 

[Will Zach]

Could end up like the infamous Lawless Denim. A Ponzi scheme, top quality notwithstanding.

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

This guy has figured out how to have more customers than he knows what to do with, takes full payment upfront, has multiple delays and refuses refund

But still word spreads and he gets more customers. And....

 

[Aloysius]

Running a business vs being an artisan.

And in my quick calculation, I'm assuming his boots are worth their full price–still wouldn't explain the up front demand for 100% of the money.

 

[MrProper]

This guy has figured out how to have more customers than he knows what to do with, takes full payment upfront, has multiple delays and refuses refund

But still word spreads and he gets more customers. And....

View attachment 657857

I wonder where the shitstorm on Insta is? Because there really should be one. But in the end, Greg doesn't do it any differently (but only with a deposit). Special projects at the expense of those that have been in the queue for a long time. Everything would be fine if there was a corresponding right of cancellation. As it is, it's simply a scam.

And it's definitely a pyramid scheme.

 

[jchance]

This sounds like another TOJ saga in the making.

popcorn.gif

 

[Marc mndt]

wouldn't explain the up front demand for 100% of the money.

In the summer of 2023 I was thinking about getting another custom jacket from FL. I was quoted £1840 (delivery and fit jacket included). I said thank you but I'll have to think about that as it was twice as much as I paid for my first FL jacket.

Immediately after I was offered a discount but only if I'd pay in full up front. That was a huge red flag so I decided not to go through with the order.

A year later he explained in some video interview that he was struggling to keep his business afloat back then.

I'm currently in a situation with Thedi Leathers. I paid in full up front. That was two and a half years ago and I still don't have a jacket. February this year I received a jacket but he decided to completely ignore my instructions for measurements, as a result the jacket was about two sizes too small. I shipped it back and he promised to quickly do a remake. Since then he has been ignoring my messages whenever I asked for an update. Two months ago I finally got fed up so I asked to get my money back. He told me he couldn't do that because it wasn't a legal transaction (I paid him in cash). There's a lot more to this story but I'll spare you the details.

I struggle to share these experiences because I really respect these makers as a person. But I have to admit this has really soured the custom jacket hobby for me.

 

[MrProper]

In the summer of 2023 I was thinking about getting another custom jacket from FL. I was quoted £1840 (delivery and fit jacket included). I said thank you but I'll have to think about that as it was twice as much as I paid for my first FL jacket.

Immediately after I was offered a discount but only if I'd pay in full up front. That was a huge red flag so I decided not to go through with the order.

A year later he explained in some video interview that he was struggling to keep his business afloat back then.

I'm currently in a situation with Thedi Leathers. I paid in full up front. That was two and a half years ago and I still don't have a jacket. February this year I received a jacket but he decided to completely ignore my instructions for measurements, as a result the jacket was about two sizes too small. I shipped it back and he promised to quickly do a remake. Since then he has been ignoring my messages whenever I asked for an update. Two months ago I finally got fed up so I asked to get my money back. He told me he couldn't do that because it wasn't a legal transaction (I paid him in cash). There's a lot more to this story but I'll spare you the details.

I struggle to share these experiences because I really respect these makers as a person. But I have to admit this has really soured the custom jacket hobby for me.

Thanks for sharing.
I think things like this need to be addressed in the hope that the ‘artists’ will also realise at some point that once it reaches a certain size, it is no longer art, but business. And that's no way to run a business.
If the advance payment is more than 10% - 20%, you should thankfully decline, even if you really want the item. It's usually not about pocket money, but about an amount that can hurt some of us.

 

[Zoro]

In the summer of 2023 I was thinking about getting another custom jacket from FL. I was quoted £1840 (delivery and fit jacket included). I said thank you but I'll have to think about that as it was twice as much as I paid for my first FL jacket.

Immediately after I was offered a discount but only if I'd pay in full up front. That was a huge red flag so I decided not to go through with the order.

A year later he explained in some video interview that he was struggling to keep his business afloat back then.

I'm currently in a situation with Thedi Leathers. I paid in full up front. That was two and a half years ago and I still don't have a jacket. February this year I received a jacket but he decided to completely ignore my instructions for measurements, as a result the jacket was about two sizes too small. I shipped it back and he promised to quickly do a remake. Since then he has been ignoring my messages whenever I asked for an update. Two months ago I finally got fed up so I asked to get my money back. He told me he couldn't do that because it wasn't a legal transaction (I paid him in cash). There's a lot more to this story but I'll spare you the details.

I struggle to share these experiences because I really respect these makers as a person. But I have to admit this has really soured the custom jacket hobby for me.

As someone who is researching, these kind of stories are very valuable, specially to me as I'm based in Europe and I have these makers in my radar, so thank you for bringing it up. I understand someone may not want to make them public in order not to hurt them, but at times it all reads like unicorns and rainbows, which doesn't show the big picture either.

I understand that having a small team (often a one man operation) has its risks, but at the point you're paying a premium, that premium should also go into the customer treatment. While I'm not going as far as compensation, as that could kill their business and gains, the very least is having an active and honest communication with delays or unforeseen issues. Radio silence and blaming a not "legal transaction" are inexcusable and child like behaviour.

If the advance payment is more than 10% - 20%, you should thankfully decline, even if you really want the item. It's usually not about pocket money, but about an amount that can hurt some of us.

I find an advance payment of more than that is fine, as long as there's some kind of buyer's protection. If you're told your product will be delivered in X months and at X+Y you lose your patience and decide to cancel, then you should be entitled to a refund of your advance as the artisan is the one who is breaching the agreement.

I understand John Doe Leathers' buyer's protection may be worthless, but they can always use Paypal and its 180 days, even with a full advance payment. Obviously the problem here is that this would only be a solution if the lead time is quite lower than 180 days (~100 days I would say).

Similarly, anyone spending any kind of money on a premium jacket shouldn't be hurt by not having that money. It would surely be bad, but it shouldn't have an effect on their quality of life as otherwise it would be n irresponsible purchase IMO.

But oh well, it's very possible I'm wearing newbie's rose tinted glasses and picturing an utopia.

 

[Bfd70]

All the things that can go wrong with a one man band. Sick, sick family, depressed, divorced, machine issues…etc. I can’t understand how they are comfortable taking money upfront for a service 6+ months out. If they are using deposits for daily expenses including their own salary they’ll never get out of the hole.

Time to form a TFL union. If a member is legitimately mistreated by a maker everyone else refuses to order from them and calls them clown penis on their social media

 

[Will Zach]

Or just view it as an inflation hedge. These boots will be selling for $20,000/pair by the time you get them.