Help! Quick opinion on Kreosote boots.

[vividIT]

All the things that can go wrong with a one man band. Sick, sick family, depressed, divorced, machine issues…etc. I can’t understand how they are comfortable taking money upfront for a service 6+ months out. If they are using deposits for daily expenses including their own salary they’ll never get out of the hole.

Time to form a TFL union. If a member is legitimately mistreated by a maker everyone else refuses to order from them and calls them clown penis on their social media

That's what happened in 2021. Something happened and I can't remember what (wouldn't discuss even if I have it). All our boot orders purchased in 2020 scheduled to be completed in 2021 got pushed to 2022. Then new boot completion dates just keep getting pushed forward year to year. No way the 4 year waitlist is going to take 4 years in my opinion. Probably 6+.

 

[vividIT]

Imagine suing mr artisan for not honoring the promised delivery date and refusing to refund your money. I wonder how that would effect his backlog and delivery speed having to deal with legal maters. And I wonder how influencer boys like Carl (and Greg Frield?) feel about his mate Gabbard being unable to deliver promised orders to customers and still doing collaborations and refusing refund requests.

There's a comment on Carl's website now under the recent review he did in Feb. So, if he didn't know, he knows now. If he has another order with Kreosote, he probably already does know.

https://carlmurawski.com/kreosote-nail-shank-a-3-year-review/

 

[vividIT]

I wonder where the shitstorm on Insta is? Because there really should be one.

I have feeling people piss anyone off, ruffle any feathers since he has our money. Or afraid he won't make their boots w/ the promised custom care? I was wondering the same thing. Especially, after this new update that came out. I guess there's people before me, early/mid 2020 that still don't have theirs yet. No idea what happened to his insta account either. Looks like a lot of pics and content is removed. Not sure if he got hacked and had to create a new one or maybe there was something on insta and got removed?

 

[TartuWolf]

There's a comment on Carl's website now under the recent review he did in Feb. So, if he didn't know, he knows now. If he has another order with Kreosote, he probably already does know.

https://carlmurawski.com/kreosote-nail-shank-a-3-year-review/

Somehow I feel like he won't "notice" that comment at all.

 

[Will Zach]

Random thoughts: I think he's building a brand image. He charges $2,500 per pair upfront. Ignoring for a moment the fact that he gets to use this money for 4+ years (an index fund should get him 10%/year), after materials and overhead costs let's assume he clears $1,250. At 70 hours of labor per pair, that averages to about $18/hour. Not exactly where you want to be. But if he builds a great brand image of artisanal quality, collabs on other verticals will bring better returns with smaller demand on his time. And eventually he will have to hire a couple of guys from White's to knock out the boot backlog if the heat gets to be too much. These small businesses walk a fine line.

 

[El Marro]

I'm currently in a situation with Thedi Leathers. I paid in full up front. That was two and a half years ago and I still don't have a jacket. February this year I received a jacket but he decided to completely ignore my instructions for measurements, as a result the jacket was about two sizes too small.

That is exactly what happened with the Thedi I ordered through Thurston Brothers back in 2018, except mine was only one size too small. I insisted on a remake and the second jacket I received fit terribly. it was a really lame experience, especially considering all the great work I have seen from Thedi.

 

[Zoro]

That is exactly what happened with the Thedi I ordered through Thurston Brothers back in 2018, except mine was only one size too small. I insisted on a remake and the second jacket I received fit terribly. it was a really lame experience, especially considering all the great work I have seen from Thedi.

May I ask how did that end? Did you end up using the jacket (aka powering through or "making it fit")or just sold it?

 

[El Marro]

I kept the jacket and tried to like it, but to no avail. It was made from Thedis Cuoio Buffalo and the hide was absolutely beautiful, it just didn’t fit well. Last year I gave it to my Uncle for Christmas. He said he liked it but I have yet to see him actually wearing it.

 

[Monitor]

Random thoughts: I think he's building a brand image.

Not going to happen. Himel and quite a few others tried to pull this off, too and it didn't happen.

One thing these makers seem to forget the moment their business picks up, is that they're making knockoffs.

There is no brand image.

 

[Aloysius]

Not going to happen. Himel and quite a few others tried to pull this off, too and it didn't happen.

One thing these makers seem to forget the moment their business picks up, is that they're making knockoffs.

There is no brand image.

I'm not sure why people would buy from this guy over Julian. Julian is a traditionally trained British shoemaker who was making small batches of workwear boots including coming up with the Bowery Boots RRL sells to this day (which were originally Julians but then out of cost cutting they went to a bigger but still high quality manufacturer.) He was even featured in the New York Times.

He charges a third of this guy's price and you can even buy seconds from his eBay page.

 

[Khilij]

I'm not sure why people would buy from this guy over Julian. Julian is a traditionally trained British shoemaker who was making small batches of workwear boots including coming up with the Bowery Boots RRL sells to this day (which were originally Julians but then out of cost cutting they went to a bigger but still high quality manufacturer.) He was even featured in the New York Times.

He charges a third of this guy's price and you can even buy seconds from his eBay page.

Thank you for this information! I'm not really a huge boot guy but I wasn't aware of him at all. Definitely going to keep this stowed away for later.

 

[Aloysius]

Thank you for this information! I'm not really a huge boot guy but I wasn't aware of him at all. Definitely going to keep this stowed away for later.

I was aware of him (from them mentioning him at RRL) but had assumed he was much more expensive than he is. If your size is in stock, his eBay is a crazy value.

 

[Brandrea33]

I'm not sure why people would buy from this guy over Julian. Julian is a traditionally trained British shoemaker who was making small batches of workwear boots including coming up with the Bowery Boots RRL sells to this day (which were originally Julians but then out of cost cutting they went to a bigger but still high quality manufacturer.) He was even featured in the New York Times.

He charges a third of this guy's price and you can even buy seconds from his eBay page.

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[P2D]

Thanks for the heads up!

FYI, and acknowledging the experiences detailed above, there can also be great experiences with makers. I’ve had them with the likes of wootten, role club, clinch, Willie Watson, wild frontier goods, biebys and FL. It’s important to set expectations though.

 

[Will Zach]

I'm not sure why people would buy from this guy over Julian. Julian is a traditionally trained British shoemaker who was making small batches of workwear boots including coming up with the Bowery Boots RRL sells to this day (which were originally Julians but then out of cost cutting they went to a bigger but still high quality manufacturer.) He was even featured in the New York Times.

He charges a third of this guy's price and you can even buy seconds from his eBay page.

This is the most important piece of info in this thread. $675 boots that have a similar feel (okay, maybe not as flashy and not KUSTOM (lol)), but available now. I'd go for Julians 100 out of 100 if I were in the market.

 

[Monitor]

Julian makes a perfect boot, there's no debating that but Kreosote has this particular look you can't get buying something else, no matter the cost. It's an itch only they can scratch. That actually is brand identity.

All these other boots are just your regular service lace-up boots. Used Iron Rangers will do the job just fine, if you're not dead set on stitch precision.

I really love the look of Kreosote for that reason alone.

 

[Aloysius]

Julian makes a perfect boot, there's no debating that but Kreosote has this particular look you can't get buying something else, no matter the cost. It's an itch only they can scratch. That actually is brand identity.

All these other boots are just your regular service lace-up boots. Used Iron Rangers will do the job just fine, if you're not dead set on stitch precision.

I really love the look of Kreosote for that reason alone.

Thing is Julian has probably made those other styles too in the past; you could find out and ask if they still have the last/patterns.

But again the core thing here to me is the Ponzi scheme type business set up. Avoiding that is key. I do hope he stops taking orders for a while so he can make good honestly on those he has.

 

[Brandrea33]

Thing is Julian has probably made those other styles too in the past; you could find out and ask if they still have the last/patterns.

But again the core thing here to me is the Ponzi scheme type business set up. Avoiding that is key. I do hope he stops taking orders for a while so he can make good honestly on those he has.

I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a ponzi scheme, but I agree … he should suspend new orders OR perhaps allow new orders to be placed without a deposit seeing as how he has so many back orders to fill.

He could then reach out to folks who have ordered without a deposit when he gets closer to making their boots.

The Long lead time and payment terms gave me pause, even though I enjoyed speaking with him. I’d never pay for anything in advance without a specific ship date and a fully refundable deposit, but that’s just me.

 

[vividIT]

I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a ponzi scheme, but I agree … he should suspend new orders OR perhaps allow new orders to be placed without a deposit seeing as how he has so many back orders to fill.

He could then reach out to folks who have ordered without a deposit when he gets closer to making their boots.

The Long lead time and payment terms gave me pause, even though I enjoyed speaking with him. I’d never pay for anything in advance without a specific ship date and a fully refundable deposit, but that’s just me.

At the time, I liked his style as well and gave him the benefit of the doubt. Back in 2020, 1 year was tough to fathom at the time. It obviously is turning out very poorly. It gets worse......

I have an email from him dated 10/2023 that 16 builds were ahead of mine. We can do the math. Should be June or July if he is doing 2 - 2.5 builds per year if he builds 30-35/yr (per his website). Just received a new update last week (November), after checking in with him that my new schedule is 3/2025. That's 16 builds for 17 months!!! These are for 2020 purchases. He's NOT even building 30/yr or even 35/yr per his website.

 

[Aloysius]

I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a ponzi scheme, but I agree … he should suspend new orders OR perhaps allow new orders to be placed without a deposit seeing as how he has so many back orders to fill.

He could then reach out to folks who have ordered without a deposit when he gets closer to making their boots.

I think it's an accidental Ponzi scheme rather than a planned one (much like the US social security system, in that way) but yeah the only way to stem the damage is for him to put it on hold until he catches up. Given that he has orders to make through next year, it shouldn't hold him back really.