Hat making?? Learning Millinery..

[belfastboy]

Another thing to keep in mind when putting sweatbands together is to cut the reed a little longer than the sweat after it's been cut to fit. The purpose of cutting the reed a little longer than the sweat is to flare it out so that it will sit on the brim. Cut the reed too short, the sweat sinks inside of the crown opening...

Getting a flare on the reed

Flaring the reed to sit on the brim at the opening.

I'm getting ready to put this Melton back together

What type thread do you use on the sweats?

 

[T Jones]

What type thread do you use on the sweats?

I use an upholstery grade thread that can be purchased at most fabric stores.

 

[belfastboy]

I use an upholstery grade thread that can be purchased at most fabric stores.

It is a thicker more robust thread? Is this for longevity?

 

[T Jones]

It is a thicker more robust thread? Is this for longevity?

It's thicker and stronger and I like it for sewing in and putting sweats together. It's definitely durable. If you're sewing on brim bindings where the thread is going to show, I wouldn't use the upholstery grade thread. It shows up too much. For brim bindings I use a thinner polyester thread that I usually get from either Hobby Lobby or Jo Ann Fabric.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

I use an upholstery grade thread that can be purchased at most fabric stores.

It's thicker and stronger and I like it for sewing in and putting sweats together. It's definitely durable. If you're sewing on brim bindings where the thread is going to show, I wouldn't use the upholstery grade thread. It shows up too much. For brim bindings, I use a thinner polyester thread that I usually get from either Hobby Lobby or Jo Ann Fabric.

I second both statements by @T Jones
Sewing the sweatband in, I use upholstery thread. The exception is straw hats than I use a 6-pound mono-filament fishing line.
Brim binding or finishing should not be done in upholstery thread, the cotton, polyester, or cotton-poly blend is a better choice for binding the brim or doing welts.

 

[belfastboy]

It's thicker and stronger and I like it for sewing in and putting sweats together. It's definitely durable. If you're sewing on brim bindings where the thread is going to show, I wouldn't use the upholstery grade thread. It shows up too much. For brim bindings I use a thinner polyester thread that I usually get from either Hobby Lobby or Jo Ann Fabric.

I have been using good quality Gutermann poly thread as that is what my wife had in her supply and I could use it on my ribbon work as well....didn't have to double up and carry two inventories of colours. But I will check out the upholstery thread.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

I have been using good quality Gutermann poly thread as that is what my wife had in her supply and I could use it on my ribbon work as well....didn't have to double up and carry two inventories of colours. But I will check out the upholstery thread.

I could be mistaken but I believe most hatters that use the upholstery thread for the sweatband are not color matching to the felt. Possibly color match to the stitching used to attach the reeding to the sweat leather but black may work in all cases here. At most I think you would only need 4 - 5 colors if needing to match to the stitching in the sweatband. If you move to machine stitching then the color is less of an issue and straight black or any other color works as it is concealed on the inside and covered by the ribbon on the outside.

Ribbon work, that is a whole other story (Match everything, unless you are going for visible and/or contrast)

 

[belfastboy]

I could be mistaken but I believe most hatters that use the upholstery thread for the sweatband are not color matching to the felt. Possibly color match to the stitching used to attach the reeding to the sweat leather but black may work in all cases here. At most I think you would only need 4 - 5 colors if needing to match to the stitching in the sweatband. If you move to machine stitching then the color is less of an issue and straight black or any other color works as it is concealed on the inside and covered by the ribbon on the outside.

Ribbon work, that is a whole other story (Match everything, unless you are going for visible and/or contrast)

One of my petty pet peeves is ribbon tacking that shows. So I endeavour to hide the ribbon/bow stitches to the best of my ability.. I am slower than government on the sewing but try to keep it light and fun and don't put pressure on myself with tight timelines.

 

[T Jones]

Just a quick update on the Melton I'm reworking. Like I said, I got the sweat sewn in and was ready to reflange the brim when my iron shorted out. So it had to sit for a couple of days until I got another iron. The new iron worked like a charm and I got the brim reflanged. I'll also be sewing on a brim binding. This Melton isn't one of the higher end hats but it's not among the worst either. It's a decent hat and was fairly easy to work with, though. Anyway, I converted this hat previously sometime back and this is the second reworking I'm doing on it. I got the crown creased, straight and tall. The brim has been trimmed to my preferred 2 5/8 inches. As creased, I gave it a teardrop that's 4 5/8 at the pinch with a rake sloping to 4 inches in the back, and is 5 inches at its highest, (as creased). The open crown height is 5 3/4 inches, plenty tall for a fedora that will give you nice deep teardrop. I also reworked the felt to what I call, a 'brushed suede finish', for a softer and smoother hand, as well as adding a bit more depth to the finish. I do that finish on most of my hat conversions.

Tall and straight as creased with a tight pinch and a deep teardrop. The brim had yet to be flanged. It's showing its age a little and you can that the original color was darker after the exposed felt faded some. But, that color shadow will be hidden under the new ribbon:

Keeping the stitching low. Check out @ CWV's post, #508, and notice the thread I used.

The new iron worked like a charm. Got the brim flanged and it's ready for binding. Under a different light, (the hat looks light gray here but the other two photos are closer to hat's actual color):

I'll have more pics later once it's finished.

 

[belfastboy]

Just a quick update on the Melton I'm reworking. Like I said, I got the sweat sewn in and was ready to reflange the brim when my iron shorted out. So it had to sit for a couple of days until I got another iron. The new iron worked like a charm and I got the brim reflanged. I'll also be sewing on a brim binding. This Melton isn't one of the higher end hats but it's not among the worst either. It's a decent hat and was fairly easy to work with, though. Anyway, I converted this hat previously sometime back and this is the second reworking I'm doing on it. I got the crown creased, straight and tall. The brim has been trimmed to my preferred 2 5/8 inches. As creased, I gave it a teardrop that's 4 5/8 at the pinch with a rake sloping to 4 inches in the back, and is 5 inches at its highest, (as creased). The open crown height is 5 3/4 inches, plenty tall for a fedora that will give you nice deep teardrop. I also reworked the felt to what I call, a 'brushed suede finish', for a softer and smoother hand, as well as adding a bit more depth to the finish. I do that finish on most of my hat conversions.

Tall and straight as creased with a tight pinch and a deep teardrop. The brim had yet to be flanged. It's showing its age a little and you can that the original color was darker after the exposed felt faded some. But, that color shadow will be hidden under the new ribbon:

Keeping the stitching low. Check out @ CWV's post, #508, and notice the thread I used.

The new iron worked like a charm. Got the brim flanged and it's ready for binding. Under a different light, (the hat looks light gray here but the other two photos are closer to hat's actual color):

I'll have more pics later once it's finished.

I have refurbished a number of westerns recently and it always amazes me how sun bleached a hat can get. As long as it bleaches evenly it is not a problem but I do have to replace the ribbon with one as wide or wider.

 

[belfastboy]

I am learning, slowly, but it is hard NOT to inject my sense of style/proportion/sensibility into the relationship with my clients. I had a fitting yesterday with my client that ordered the Indy Jones hat. I creased it to what I thought worked. A higher crown as he is a big guy and can handle it easily.....except in his mind it looked huge. I had forgotten my learning arc and that I had to ease in slowly to the higher crowns/wider brims. As a not hat guy he is not there yet. He disliked the hat and I am in the process now of steaming and lowering the crown. In my mind waaaay tooo much but then that is me, not him.

I am making a hat for another client and he wants a Blues Bros replica. That is the only hat he knows and is comfortable wearing. He ordered a 1.5" very stingy brim and I have to admit I am having a hard time with the idea. So I suggested I make it with a 2" brim and if after wearing it he is unhappy I will trim it down to his 1.5". I know I should just shut up and make the damn hat to his spec but damn, friends don't let friends wearing stingy brims!!!

 

[Frunobulax]

I am learning, slowly, but it is hard NOT to inject my sense of style/proportion/sensibility into the relationship with my clients. I had a fitting yesterday with my client that ordered the Indy Jones hat. I creased it to what I thought worked. A higher crown as he is a big guy and can handle it easily.....except in his mind it looked huge. I had forgotten my learning arc and that I had to ease in slowly to the higher crowns/wider brims. As a not hat guy he is not there yet. He disliked the hat and I am in the process now of steaming and lowering the crown. In my mind waaaay tooo much but then that is me, not him.

I am making a hat for another client and he wants a Blues Bros replica. That is the only hat he knows and is comfortable wearing. He ordered a 1.5" very stingy brim and I have to admit I am having a hard time with the idea. So I suggested I make it with a 2" brim and if after wearing it he is unhappy I will trim it down to his 1.5". I know I should just shut up and make the damn hat to his spec but damn, friends don't let friends wearing stingy brims!!!

You're in good company with your last advice. When I ordered my custom from Gus Miller at Batsakes, I was "recreating" the Knox 100 that Max now owns. The original has a 2 1/2" brim, but Mr. Miller told me he would cut it at 2 5/8" because he thought it would be better, and said if I didn't like it he'd trim it when I picked it up.

Well, he was right.

 

[belfastboy]

You're in good company with your last advice. When I ordered my custom from Gus Miller at Batsakes, I was "recreating" the Knox 100 that Max now owns. The original has a 2 1/2" brim, but Mr. Miller told me he would cut it at 2 5/8" because he thought it would be better, and said if I didn't like it he'd trim it when I picked it up.

Well, he was right.

I will keep you posted on the results.

 

[T Jones]

I am learning, slowly, but it is hard NOT to inject my sense of style/proportion/sensibility into the relationship with my clients. I had a fitting yesterday with my client that ordered the Indy Jones hat. I creased it to what I thought worked. A higher crown as he is a big guy and can handle it easily.....except in his mind it looked huge. I had forgotten my learning arc and that I had to ease in slowly to the higher crowns/wider brims. As a not hat guy he is not there yet. He disliked the hat and I am in the process now of steaming and lowering the crown. In my mind waaaay tooo much but then that is me, not him.

I am making a hat for another client and he wants a Blues Bros replica. That is the only hat he knows and is comfortable wearing. He ordered a 1.5" very stingy brim and I have to admit I am having a hard time with the idea. So I suggested I make it with a 2" brim and if after wearing it he is unhappy I will trim it down to his 1.5". I know I should just shut up and make the damn hat to his spec but damn, friends don't let friends wearing stingy brims!!!

What I plan to do, sooner or later, is to make hats and sell them on Etsy rather than doing custom builds. That way, I'm under no pressure and I won't be stressed out through time constraints and customer demands, and I'll be making hats my own way and on my own time. If you stop to think about it, it's what you create that makes hatting enjoyable to you, and it's what you create that draws people to wanting a hat you made in the first place.

 

[belfastboy]

What I plan to do, sooner or later, is to make hats and sell them on Etsy rather than doing custom builds. That way, I'm under no pressure and I won't be stressed out through time constraints and customer demands, and I'll be making hats my own way and on my own time. If you stop to think about it, it's what you create that makes hatting enjoyable to you, and it's what you create that draws people to wanting a hat you made in the first place.

Yes, I agree. My initial business plan called for opening an Etsy site in the new year. I am now not so sure on the custom side. I am slowly building up a selection of women's hats that I will put up for offer on Etsy....maybe in conjunctlon with my wife's hand spun/hand knit wool scarfs/shawls. Women's hats are great fun as there are so few constraints to what I can offer plus if I offer men's quality, fur instead of wool, real leather sweats, silk liners etc I do think there is a market for that. Most of the millinery market is not great quality.....fashion over quality.....at high prices.

 

[belfastboy]

What I plan to do, sooner or later, is to make hats and sell them on Etsy rather than doing custom builds. That way, I'm under no pressure and I won't be stressed out through time constraints and customer demands, and I'll be making hats my own way and on my own time. If you stop to think about it, it's what you create that makes hatting enjoyable to you, and it's what you create that draws people to wanting a hat you made in the first place.

If I lived in the US I would go after the refurb business. I love refurbing beat up hats....find it really rewarding. But the postage between the countries is just too expensive to make it work.

 

[T Jones]

Yes, I agree. My initial business plan called for opening an Etsy site in the new year. I am now not so sure on the custom side. I am slowly building up a selection of women's hats that I will put up for offer on Etsy....maybe in conjunctlon with my wife's hand spun/hand knit wool scarfs/shawls. Women's hats are great fun as there are so few constraints to what I can offer plus if I offer men's quality, fur instead of wool, real leather sweats, silk liners etc I do think there is a market for that. Most of the millinery market is not great quality.....fashion over quality.....at high prices.

Now that sounds like a good idea. You can do that for a while, make up some men's fedoras as well, and then later on maybe take on some customs every now and then. You won't be rushed. You won't be stressed, and you won't get burnt out doing something that you now enjoy. But yeah, that sounds like good idea you have.

 

[belfastboy]

Now that sounds like a good idea. You can do that for a while, make up some men's fedoras as well, and then later on maybe take on some customs every now and then. You won't be rushed. You won't be stressed, and you won't get burnt out doing something that you now enjoy. But yeah, that sounds like good idea you have.

My wife is the guinea pig (poor choice of words I know) slash model and she said this morning I had to stop making her hats as she too is out of room to store them.

 

[T Jones]

My wife is the guinea pig (poor choice of words I know) slash model and she said this morning I had to stop making her hats as she too is out of room to store them.

There you go. The wife says she has too many hats. Perfect timing! Now's the time to start making hats to build up your inventory for your Etsy store!

 

[belfastboy]

Here is a progress report on my first "distressed' hat creation. My brilliant wife volunteered to hand sew a brim binding on it. She has never done this before (I am hopeful she will agree do it again!!) Solves my "oreo cookie" look on the undyed centre of the brim thickness. I compared her work and it compares most favourably to the custom hats I have with bound brims.....the girl has the knack. The hat is on the flange right now giving it just a slight cup. The brim is only 2". Suggestions please: Not sure to give it a traditional ribbon/bow treatment or go the full Fouquette on it......an old silk tie, feathers?

(no matchstix though)