Goodwear Jackets why the attraction

[ton312]

Remember, 95% of GW's customers are not jacket forum members so any GW "atmosphere" on this site (pro or con) is not representative of a large swath of GW customers.

LOL. Really? So you’re telling me the detail obsessed military jacket crowd by and large doesn’t use a forum. Despite obsessing over every single minute detail, but they don’t want to share with like minded individuals!?!!?...Cool story bro. They are all forum users. Period. With maybe a 1% exclusion. How the Hell else would they know he even exists!! It ain’t his website. LOL.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Then attraction is the authenticity to originals combined with very superior workmanship.........work all done by HIM, no farming out. Someone with a hyper attention to detail, authenticity and quality making YOUR jacket. It's HIS company, HIS name, making your jacket. There is a commitment there that is pretty hard to duplicate even with the most loyal and dedicated employees.

Yep - that pretty much covers it. I think it's unlikely that better quality work is a sufficient reason why something develops a cult following. It's only ever a part of the reason. The perception of authenticity and reputational power and how this makes a product "better", in this case a jacket, is so often at the heart of a true collector's enthusiasm.

The Goodwear jackets I have seen posted here and in other places look very beautiful and I totally understand the enthusiasm for them. Nevertheless I suspect that if John was known to be very unpleasant and racist and a vulgarian many would have a different view of those jackets even if they were exactly the same.

In relation to Superfluous' very funny and well contrived rant featuring a kind of straw man argument against Goodwear (I have never heard anyone argue precisely this way), I can only say that when it comes to any luxury artisan crafted product people almost never buy for a straightforward reason in my experience. The entire history of marketing, positioning and brand tells us that people buy into an experience. I'm fairly certain if this weren't the case, this site and our constant quest for perfection and ceaseless photographing and storytelling about jackets old and new, would not exist.

 

[CBI]

the last time I talked to John (which has been quite some time), he said most of his customers were not members of forums (or maybe ones who don't post) as far as he knew. It's easy to get info about Good Wear and Eastman, etc. with a basic "A-2 Jacket Reproductions" search.

 

[ton312]

the last time I talked to John (which has been quite some time), he said most of his customers were not members of forums (or maybe ones who don't post) as far as he knew. It's easy to get info about Good Wear and Eastman, etc. with a basic "A-2 Jacket Reproductions" search.

Those google searches lead directly to forums...specifically VLJ and this one. So...they may not be forum members but they are absolutely reading forums. It’s not even debatable. He is otherwise totally unknown. Far too obscure outside forum reference. TBH it doesn’t really matter to the question at hand.
Google top hit:

 

[HoosierDaddy]

http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/index.html

 

[heron163]

I bought a used Goodwear off the exchange here. It is an A-2 Monarch pattern. It is a very nice jacket although the color is somewhat unusual being a very light almost tan... It doesn't fit me as well as my Eastman A-2 Monarch but that is probably more of a function of my body type... which is also unusual...

 

[El Marro]

Not having handled a GW yet (if ever), I am curious as to how it really is.

When the time comes I think you will be suitably impressed with your Good Wear. I say this knowing full well that you have one of the most diverse and interesting collections of leather jackets of any member on this forum.
I don’t presume to say that you will be blown away or pronounce that it is better than any of your other jackets but I do think that you will appreciate the workmanship, the hide, and the overall feel of the jacket. Here’s hoping that day comes soon!

 

[regius]

To add to Superfluous & Seb & CBI, here’s my two cents. I myself have also been one of his earlier customers, started in 2011 (not very old but still, when he was only making a limited number of A2 contracts). I was impressed by him as a person through a unique way, which I’d say absolutely positively affected my “experience” with him, which left an indelible warm & friend-like emotion when thinking of the name. I wanted to learn to sew jackets & I took the liberty to pick his brain. Alan of Johnson & John Chapman were two very special gentlemen who are themselves successfully businessmen, because they never feared competition & never tried to obscure facts & discourage me disguised as “good advice to avoid wasting time”. In my life almost no other businessmen was forthright at helping a new comet in the same trade, not even family friends, a pathetic quality most people have I want to say. John dived straight into the know-how & was very open, we talked randomly & at length about A2 details & jacket making, machines, threads etc etc. I’d share my observations of historical A2 & he’d confirm my observation. All of this openness adds instantly to the positive experience & relatability, which in consumer psychology, pretty much translates to buying. Of course, depending on the particular buyers personality & upbringing, seeking group membership & approval may or may not also play a big role (I’d say by the time someone wants to aim at an accurate A2 repro, he is already knee deep into “group membership”, clique-membership to be precise. Remember the majority of the world call such jacket “bomber jackets”, A2? What is an A2?).

Oh, to “qualify” as an old customer, I have owned more than 10 of his jackets, mostly A2. I currently have four A2, one sheepskin & one newly acquired Modoc. El Marro’s epic brown Arcadia was from me.

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[Dav]

Must admit I'd like to give one a go, I'm just not into the wait though, 2 or 3 months yes, 2 or 3 years no not me.
And I don't fancy a second hand one as I want to do all the breaking in.

 

[Mich486]

Similar as above I’d like to give it a go. As good as the jackets look though I can’t bring myself to wait more than 3 months, let alone years. Just the thought of such a long wait kills me.

Also I think he caters more to people who care about exact replicas which is not paramount to me. Add to this that I normally fit in standard OTR sizes alright so there’s a plethora of mostly Japanese (but not only) makers who make similar jackets of comparable if not nicest quality.

All the non bespoke jackets he makes are also size 44 and above so I’m out of this game to begin with.


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[red devil]

When the time comes I think you will be suitably impressed with your Good Wear. I say this knowing full well that you have one of the most diverse and interesting collections of leather jackets of any member on this forum.
I don’t presume to say that you will be blown away or pronounce that it is better than any of your other jackets but I do think that you will appreciate the workmanship, the hide, and the overall feel of the jacket. Here’s hoping that day comes soon!

Thanks @El Marro ! This seems very likely how it will go

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Based on my years of forum reading, it always seemed to me that the accuracy of his A2 jackets was the biggest draw to Good Wear at first.

I did own a Good Wear for a short time, but returned it due to the fit not working out (it was a stock item, not a custom purchase.) The workmanship was great, but my RMC jackets and Freewheelers jackets are/were more cleanly stitched and finished. Certainly, the quality was well above average and IMO quite a bit better than my short lived Aero jacket. However, I think the authenticity was the biggest draw.

He was also fantastic to talk to when I called him about the jacket I did purchase. John was knowledgeable and engaging. I had a blast talking to him so I am sure that is part of it for his "fans."

If his wait was not so long, I would almost certainly purchase one of his jackets.

 

[willyto]

I don’t quite understand the authenticity factor when the jackets are basically custom.

I can’t think of any A2 produced in sizes as big as 46-50 as something Authentic when pilots and aircrew members where needed to be slim and in shape. There goes the authenticity/ historical accuracy factor and same goes with the patterns, if it’s a custom A2 it can’t be authentic because military items were RTW to specs given.

I can understand details like the snaps, hardware, zippers, liners, knits,etc. But historical accuracy goes out the window when one introduces pattern changes, bespoke measurements and such changes.

I don’t think anyone has questioned GW quality but instead the delays involved and his priorities when it comes to getting back to people. Also I actually see the opposite, many people claiming that GW is the ultimate maker and taking a crap on other makers which run a better business model and produce amazing products which are put into question.

 

[jonbuilder]

I purchased the 1st jacket John made of the Bronco contract, a seal brown horsehide with a barb wire scare somewhere on the hide. This is not John's 1st jacket, he had been making other A2 contracts and showing and selling them on the Vintage Leather jacket forum. I believe the Bronco I purchased from John was cut to size per an original pattern, may be adjusted to an original size 46 pattern by propositions. The reason I went for the Bronco contract is the body shape of this contract fits my body shape. My Bronco jacket is cut and sized like an original Bronco jacket, with no adjustments to present-day standards. This is as close as I can come to having an everyday wearable World War 2 era A2.

 

[Monitor]

I don’t think anyone has questioned GW quality but instead the delays involved and his priorities when it comes to getting back to people. Also I actually see the opposite, many people claiming that GW is the ultimate maker and taking a crap on other makers which run a better business model and produce amazing products which are put into question.

Yep. That's VLJ for you.

The hate on Aero there is incredible and arguments as to why, nonexistent. It's baffling how nasty that place (sometimes) is.

 

[jonbuilder]

Yep. That's VLJ for you.

The hate on Aero there is incredible and arguments as to why, nonexistent. It's baffling how nasty that place (sometimes) is.

Sorry to hear this. I use to follow VLJ until I moved over here in 2002. Recently I have been dropping into VLJ once every few weeks but nothing has held my attention. I did run across a post from Ken of Aero, offering clarification on a vintage Hercules pattern.

 

[jonbuilder]

LOL. Really? So you’re telling me the detail obsessed military jacket crowd by and large doesn’t use a forum. Despite obsessing over every single minute detail, but they don’t want to share with like minded individuals!?!!?...Cool story bro. They are all forum users. Period. With maybe a 1% exclusion. How the Hell else would they know he even exists!! It ain’t his website. LOL.

Ton: I think what John said is the majority of his customers do not post on the jacket forums, not that they do not follow or drop into the forums. I read one of his posts to this effect myself, in response to the question, why so few new Goodwear jackets are being posted recently on the VLJ forum

 

[Mich486]

On the other hand, isn’t Aero the gold standard in this forum?

Construction quality above Aero isn’t really quality but just an unnecessary embellishment that little adds to the overall desirability of the jacket.

Prices above Aero are just hyped up and not really reflective of a superior product, etc. I can’t remember where but I recently read someone claiming that he likes some more expensive maker’s jackets but he’s unwilling to spend more than an Aero. As if Aeros were cheap?!

I think the only criticism I ever read about Aero around these parts is regarding the main zipper size.

I’m not sure what is happening on the other forum but I think here Aero is on the opposite side of the fence.

Finally, I own and have owned a few Aeros and I enjoy them. I like Aero but I think there are other makers who offer a better product and yes they are also more pricey.



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[Doctor Damage]

Finally, I would not wait four years for a jacket. I hate queuing and waiting. I rarely order custom items. I have stopped going for bespoke suits and shirts after I lost weight and have gone back to buying off the rack ones.

This is an important, key step in the development of a man's sense of style: realizing that fussing over tiny details and chasing perfection is hopeless, unmanly, and a waste of time.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Ton: I think what John said is the majority of his customers do not post on the jacket forums, not that they do not follow or drop into the forums. I read one of his posts to this effect myself, in response to the question, why so few new Goodwear jackets are being posted recently on the VLJ forum

LOL. Really? So you’re telling me the detail obsessed military jacket crowd by and large doesn’t use a forum. Despite obsessing over every single minute detail, but they don’t want to share with like minded individuals!?!!?...Cool story bro. They are all forum users. Period. With maybe a 1% exclusion. How the Hell else would they know he even exists!! It ain’t his website. LOL.

I was just going to post something like this. Well said!!