Frightening Trend - Article.

[JMADSENK]

It's still a generalization of a group, and in my opinion that's never good. I have seen Grups at parent nights, book fairs, class trips, etc. I refuse to acknowledge that because someone wears a suit (not referring to your post now Elaina) they possess some great work ethic.

 

[Elaina]

Oh I don't take offense. I can only describe my experiences with it. Which in my case, are not all that great.

But like many of us pass judgment on them, they do on those that try to dress nice too.

Elaina

 

[nightandthecity]

It's still a generalization of a group, and in my opinion that's never good. I have seen Grups at parent nights, book fairs, class trips, etc. I refuse to acknowledge that because someone wears a suit (not referring to your post now Elaina) they possess some great work ethic.

given the close association of suit-wearing with business leaders, politicians and gangsters I've always found it hard to buy the idea it somehow equates with moral virtue.

As I've said before in similar threads, some of the finest people I've known can't even match their socks.

 

[jamespowers]

Yeah right and Rove knew nothing of it yeah and there are weapons of mass destruction yeah thats the ticket and Saddam and benladen are getting married yeah thats it and if we invade Iraq that'll fixem yeah right.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

 

[Paisley]

Back to our regularly scheduled topic...

The no jeans at work rule always reminds me of what Scott Adams of Dilbert fame once said: "You can't wear jeans on casual Friday because they look good and feel good and you already own several pairs." Slouchy cargo pants dragging the ground are fine, but a new-looking, well fitting pair of jeans aren't up to snuff.

 

[scotrace]

Friendly Warning From The Bartender

JMADSENK, As you're a new member, I want to point out that discussions at the Fedora Lounge are not to include insults pointed at other members. Be respectful, or find somewhere else to play.

 

[Salv]

I used to work for the UK arm of Visa, but I was part of an IT support group that was based at the company HQ in the San Francisco Bay area. Dress code was business casual and my US-based department Director had a fondness for Aloha and Mambo shirts, which he wore with jeans and trainers/sneakers. He was the finest manager I have ever worked for - he knew the business inside-out, understood the hardware and software better than anyone else that I met in the company, actually cared about his staff, was never fazed by any problems that came along, and on top of that was one of the most honest, hardest working and least pretentious people I've ever known. He moved up to a VP position in another department before I left (I was made redundant after the UK arm decided it was going to replace its IBM hardware/software) and he was the only person from the US who called me on my last day to wish me well.

Visa has to be the very essence of the enormous capitalist multi-national corporation, and they have managed to remain the brand leader in the credit and debit card industry - and yet, when I visited the corporate HQ there was hardly a suit and tie to be seen.

 

[carebear]

Not trying to be negative, but for illustrative purposes....

I guess the contrarian question is then; "Would he be incapable of similar performance if dressed in a suit?"

If so, how can a truly competent individual be de-skilled by a simple tie?

If not, how are dress codes a bad thing?

In short, if you can't cope with a tie, how good are you really?

 

[herringbonekid]

the original article didn't draw any link between the dressing-down 'grups' and lowered work performance. indeed most of the young parents interviewed were very successful and well off. whether i like seeing 'grown ups' dressing like teenagers or not, there is no definite link that society will suffer in the workplace because of this trend, or that more families will break apart, and i suspect that neither will happen. people got divorced, and were philanderers in the 40s too.



(p.s. i've noticed a few of the more heated comments have been deleted...i think that's a shame)

 

[JMADSENK]

the original article didn't draw any link between the dressing-down 'grups' and lowered work performance. indeed most of the young parents interviewed were very successful and well off. whether i like seeing 'grown ups' dressing like teenagers or not, there is no definite link that society will suffer in the workplace because of this trend, or that more families will break apart, and i suspect that neither will happen. people got divorced, and were philanderers in the 40s too.



(p.s. i've noticed a few of the more heated comments have been deleted...i think that's a shame)

Excellent points here. Apparently, this person took the time to actually read and comment on the content of the article. How refreshing.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Not trying to be negative, but for illustrative purposes....

I guess the contrarian question is then; "Would he be incapable of similar performance if dressed in a suit?"

If so, how can a truly competent individual be de-skilled by a simple tie?

If not, how are dress codes a bad thing?

In short, if you can't cope with a tie, how good are you really?

Most dress code environments are authoritarian. Its that authoritarian work place that doesn't inspire creativity. Theres a reason why the most creative folks are going to certain companies and avoiding others. A dress code is just a small part of it and a good indicator of the work environment in general.

 

[Salv]

Not trying to be negative, but for illustrative purposes....

I guess the contrarian question is then; "Would he be incapable of similar performance if dressed in a suit?"

I would be extremely surprised if his performance would be any different if he were wearing different clothes. It was the culture at Visa to wear 'business casual', and he made full use of that culture to indulge his love for Mambo shirts. But of course that wasn't my point. Wearing a Mambo shirt didn't make him any less competent than any other manager I've had that wore a suit. He was a great manager because of who he was, not because of what he wore.

And that leads to another contrarian question: "Could he have been an even better manager if he wore a suit?"

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Much as I've tried, I just can't bring myself to care about this topic. Maybe I will in a couple of days. Or maybe :deadhorse

.

 

[Feraud]

Most of us are discussing the exception rather than the rule. We talk about that great manager, or so and so the artist. That is not the majority.

The question is, how does dressing up or down effect the regular joe on the street? Does it?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The sooner that Loungers with doctorates in psychology, sociology, and social anthropology enter this conversation, the better. Until then, it will continue to be a repetitive loop of rigmarole, conjecture, and logical fallacies.

.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I'm awfully surprised that Behaviorism has not yet been mentioned in this thread. Watson? Skinner? Bueller?

.

 

[Senator Jack]

The article is just one perspective. There are those of us who know these people first hand, have them in our neighborhood, so I believe my fellow NYers and I are making comments based on experience rather than what's been filtered through New York magazine.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

There are those of us who know these people first hand, have them in our neighborhood, ...

You have Watson and Skinner in your neighborhood? AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!


( Just kidding. I see your point. Thanks!)

.

 

[jamespowers]

You have Watson and Skinner in your neighborhood? AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!


( Just kidding. I see your point. Thanks!)

.

I am surprised you didn't mention Camus.
In any case, my brush with sociology simply stated that people who look the part get the respect of the part. Remember the "doctors' on TV who advertise products? Are they wearing baggy pants and oversized sweaters? NO! They put on the white jacket of authority and play the part.
Clothes make the man is not just a saying. It has always been an identifying factor. Now I know you have gone into a department store and looked for the guy in a suit when you need a question answered about a product. I know because you have bothered me several times erroneously.
Dressing the part conveys authority no matter what you consciously think. The doctor, the lawyer, the milkman and even the garbage man look a certian way in your mind. If you go into an office you expect to see the manager not the garbage man.

Regards,

J

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

It also helps if you carry a clipboard.