Frightening Trend - Article.

[SGB]

Dress codes stifle, nobody I worked with wore "grunge" we all dressed decently w/o being "told' how to dress, it's just a better way to be. And this was one of the largest corporations around. Actually they did have a dress code, "Corporate Casual", which we all fit. A lot better than "wear a tie, no jeans, no beards, etc". I don't work better being told how to dress, and I don't think others do either, just don't go to extremes either way. Be respectful and let people do their jobs without telling them how to dress, shave, or wear their hair, it's pretty silly really. Some jobs require uniforms, that's ok, it's part of the job upfront. But most jobs don't, so it shouldn't even be an issue.

SGB

 

[Lincsong]

IBM is losing market share not creative types. This is because they relaxed their dress codes, let the slobs run the place and everything is slowly falling apart. If they tightened the reigns they'd be doing better. Some may say that Wrigley Gum is doing better because the son loosened the dress code there, but he also raised prices and did some acquistions of other companies. But, they were doing fine with the rigid dress codes while his father was alive.:eusa_clap

 

[McPeppers]

Dress codes stifle, nobody I worked with wore "grunge" we all dressed decently w/o being "told' how to dress, it's just a better way to be. And this was one of the largest corporations around. Actually they did have a dress code, "Corporate Casual", which we all fit. A lot better than "wear a tie, no jeans, no beards, etc". I don't work better being told how to dress, and I don't think others do either, just don't go to extremes either way. Be respectful and let people do their jobs without telling them how to dress, shave, or wear their hair, it's pretty silly really. Some jobs require uniforms, that's ok, it's part of the job upfront. But most jobs don't, so it shouldn't even be an issue.

SGB

See Business-Casual... like I said ^_-

AMEN brother, AMEN

 

[airfrogusmc]

SGB I agree. I wear jeans/khakis to work but I don't dress (I hate labels on things like this but for the sake of discussion) grunge or hip hope or whatever you want to call it. Nice shirt sometimes a suit and when attending fund raisers and other things that require it a tux. Most other creative people I know and work with dress in a similar fashion. Some more dressed up most of the time some not. Its not a big deal. Putting out good, creative pieces are a big deal.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Dressing well is a sign of respect - respect for yourself, respect for those with whom you come into contact every day, and respect for the places you patronize.

Dressing like a slob is a sign of selfishness and immaturity. But, immaturity is what our culture is all about anymore. There is very little respect.

As to suits not letting you show your individuality, that's pure hogwash. There are so many colors, patterns, and accessories available that one can put together at outift that looks different from anyone else's. Society should NOT look like a gathering of Washington politicos all wearing dark grey or black!

Brad

 

[airfrogusmc]

IBM is losing market share not creative types. This is because they relaxed their dress codes, let the slobs run the place and everything is slowly falling apart. If they tightened the reigns they'd be doing better. Some may say that Wrigley Gum is doing better because the son loosened the dress code there, but he also raised prices and did some acquistions of other companies. But, they were doing fine with the rigid dress codes while his father was alive.:eusa_clap

But then how do you explain the success of other companies that your so called slobs work at? Maybe they talent they've attracted?

And at companies like Wrigley it was the leadership making BAD decisions and going into areas they had no expertise in that have caused a great deal of their problems not relaxes dress codes.

 

[Lincsong]

But then how do you explain the success of other companies that your so called slobs work at? Maybe they talent they've attracted?

And at companies like Wrigley it was the leadership making BAD decisions and going into areas they had no expertise in that have caused a great deal of their problems not relaxes dress codes.

Wrigley hasn't made any bad decisions? Their stock price is great, the books are strong. You must have Wrigley Gum confused with Ford Motor Co. which was doing fabulous under the fashionably dressed Jacques Nasser and is in the basement when the grungey, yoga, sensitive William Ford Jr. took over and started relaxing dress codes.:eusa_doh:

 

[SGB]

Allen, have fun, this thread has gotten too silly for me......

SGB

 

[McPeppers]

Wrigleys problems existed before the relaxed dress codes so the dress proves one thing. It really doesnt matter what you wear its how motivated you are to do your job. Dress doesnt influence creativity nor does it hurt it. Provide your employees with a job they like and they will preform it no matter what they have to wear, same is true for the opposite.

What we're all really saying here is, people should dress in a manner that gives themselves pride, not because its "cool". All a dress code is designed to do is set the "lower end of the bar" and you can dress anywhere from that point upwards towards James Bond's "I wear a Tuxedo everywhere I go". By removing a "code" you theoretically could wear anything that doesnt break the "indecent exposure" laws (and it isnt a rare case either I've seen it go this low on many occasions).

A dress code should always spell out these qualities in my opinion:

Shoes: Must not be sneakers, must also be clean and not have strange designs. Can be as comfortable as you like...Cole-Haan has a Nike-Air line of shoes.

Pants: May be "Dressy Jeans" or above, as in the jeans must not have holes, faded spots, simulated dirt, or frayed edges.

Belt: Must wear a leather belt of some kind in respectable shape, no loud colors and no frayed edges IF wearing tucked in shirts.

Undershirt: Allowed but must be white or match the color of your shirt.

Shirts: must have a collar, must be clean, must not have crude slogans visible. If dress shirt is worn must be tucked in. Polos may be tucked or untucked.

Hat: May be worn entering and leaving work and while at lunch, while on the job hats and jackets (if worn) must be hung up.

 

[Matthew Dalton]

I am cautiously optimistic that some time soon we will experience a kind of renaissance; rebellion against an immature majority.

Have any of you seen the show "How I met your Mother?" I think that's what it was called, a fairly recent sitcom. One of the characters in the show is a fan of suits, and tells his friend to "suit up" in dress clothes when they go out.

I found that interesting and I wondered if this could perhaps be the start of a trend and an expression of an emerging attitude in society.

I think I would love my job to death and be excited to get up in the morning too if I sold pairs of flimsy jeans for hundreds of dollars... It'd be like a practical joke that never ends.

Better that these immature people don't wear dress clothes. It makes it easier for us to spot people that we can relate to more so than they, doesn't it?

 

[McPeppers]

Well I'm in the middle of the pack on that one. Always dress respectfully except when cheering on your sports team (then its ok to wear sports merch) or required to wear a particular uniform, but "full on" dress only happens on special occasions.

And yes I know "life is a special occasion" but clearly theres different degrees

 

[jamespowers]

Katt this is another thing that Dean discuses. He talks about the way the new right attacks anyone that is even slightly critical. Like what you just did JP. Oh Dean is just an idiot because he sees helicopters at night. Forget the fact he was in the Nixon White House and has personally seen a major change in the Republican Party in the past 10 years. Folks like Liddy were once considered the fair right (nut jobs) are now the center. Look at the way they went after their own in the primaries before the first Bush election in 2000. John McCain was attacked on his military record. He's no hero trying to discredit his service. A writer writes a story critical of the White House on the credibility of a piece of info they were using on the road to war, they outted his CIA wife. Speaking of do anything to win because the means justify the end in exactly the Rove mantra.

I didn't attack anything other than to point out the same thing you did and the term you are looking for is far right.
Yep, the right is the only political entity that gets defensive. Yeah Right! What about the recent flap over a DocuDrama by all the Clintonistas as of late. Threatening to pull the company's license if they show a Series that might show the former administration in a bad light anyone? Yep, the Right is all alone. :eusa_doh: Once again:
www.nonstick.com/sounds/Music/ltmu_005.wav and http://www.geocities.com/area51/8616/midi/common.mid :eusa_doh:
And by the way we now know who outed Plame. It wasn't Rove and it wasn't Scooter. It was a friend of your buddy Powell. :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J

 

[airfrogusmc]

Wrigley hasn't made any bad decisions? Their stock price is great, the books are strong. You must have Wrigley Gum confused with Ford Motor Co. which was doing fabulous under the fashionably dressed Jacques Nasser and is in the basement when the grungey, yoga, sensitive William Ford Jr. took over and started relaxing dress codes.:eusa_doh:

Linc, I'm sure that you are very good at your profession. I'm sure you're very successful. But what puzzles me is why you think what makes success in your field would transfer over to areas that are so different and require such different talents than what are found in your profession? I've worked in creative area most of my adult life. What I've found is that the mentality of a work environment that would have a dress code would also be a very authoritarian place to work. I've seen places loose very hard working very creative people because of that kind of inflexibility.

Bear with me here, I'm going to share a very true story with you. When I was about 9 months from getting out of the Corps we got a new Sgt/Maj. I was a CH-46 crewchief and was of course in the airwing. Our new Sgt/Maj was a true American hero. Served with Chesty and the Chosen Reservoir Korea. I mean this guy was one decorated Marine. He came to us because he was about to retire and was getting long in the tooth and the Corps wanted to give him a nice easy airwing assignment before he retired. We all loved and respected this great man,

But he wasn't very familiar with the airwing and I doubt anybody brought him up to speed. In the airwing we didn't wear starch utilities or bloused boots because on NATOPS regs. We usually wore flightsuits, flight boots, flight jackets and flight glasses. He saw this and thought not in my corps. All you Marines know exactly what I'm talking about. He had just come from a recon unit. One hard corps Marine.

Well he thought he would fix all of this so he issued an order for us stop wear overalls as he called them and wire rimmed glasses and start blousing out trousers. He also set up a muster for 0600 for a little PT.

Well anyone that has spent anytime on a flightline knows if you have a 0700 launch you need to start your fuel samples and preflight at 0500. Needless to say we all went out and did our PT but non of the aircraft were ready for launch that day and the Sgt/Maj was on the COs carpet by 0900 with some splanen' to do. That doesn't even touch on how mad the CO was that we were not complying with NATOPS. A real no no..

The point is just because something works well in one area doesn't mean that it does in others. There are definite reasons why some of these companies that have relaxed there dress codes have attracted the most creative people and as a result are doing so well.

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

i agree that a strict 'conservative' dress code in a creative environment may lead to resentment among the creatives and therefore reduced creativity. but why does a free dress code have to equal t-shirts and jeans ? i work in animation and most of the young 'creatives' look like they've just rolled out of bed and picked up the first things they found on the floor (almost always a t-shirt and jeans. frequently at work they'll kick off their shoes too and slide around in socks). it's funny, because artists once had a reputation for dressing extravagantly, even dandyishly. sadly those days are long gone. most artists are indistinguishable from the rest of the generic ultra-low maintenance-wear masses.

Excellent points! However, I would say from experience that, rather than any restrictive dress code, incompetance and abusive conduct on the part of management is actually the most widespread reason for de-moralization and decreased productivity in creatives. A necktie you can easily accustom yourself to. Being treated like an expendable coolie is another matter altogether . . . .

 

[carebear]

He saw this and thought not in my corps. All you Marines know exactly what I'm talking about. He had just come from a recon unit. One hard corps Marine.

Ironically, in recon we had a similar problem with transfers even from straight leg infantry (admin types pretty much imploded on contact).

None of our gear is set up according to standard regs. There's a general company standard developed by the team leaders for mission essential gear (to promote emergency interchangeability) but much of your kit is determined at the team level.

Formations for the field didn't look very strac, too much stuff attached at individually comfortable angles and too much personal gear, especially since we were a cold weather outfit and the issue gear wasn't as good. We ended up with more or less a separate deuce gear issue for formations involving visitors from outside the unit. Joint exercises were fun for us NCO's, telling apoplectic officers from outside our chain the guys were in fact dressed to standard.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I had a girlfriend whos brother was in force recon. Thank God for'm. We usually got along real well with guys from recon. We'd fly'm out and pick'm up and go drink'n with'm after. Thats how I meet this guys sister. They were some of the only guys that never got airsick.

Man this Sgt/Maj was the real deal. They broke the mold when they cast him. We all had so much respect for this guy. He had so much hard ware on his chest when he put on his dress greens its a wonder he could stand. Jump wings and more ribbons than I think I've ever seen on a uniform. Couple of purple hearts. UUUUHHHHRAAAA....

 

[carebear]

You always get attached to the guys who are willing to fly into fire to pull your outnumbered and outgunned butt out of trouble.

 

[airfrogusmc]

And by the way we now know who outed Plame. It wasn't Rove and it wasn't Scooter. It was a friend of your buddy Powell. :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J[/QUOTE]


Yeah right and Rove knew nothing of it yeah and there are weapons of mass destruction yeah thats the ticket and Saddam and benladen are getting married yeah thats it and if we invade Iraq that'll fixem yeah right.....

 

[Lincsong]

I'm confused here

fftopic: What in the wide, wide, wide world of sports does Plame, bin Laden et al have to do with dressing sloppily?

 

[Elaina]

It does take all kinds to make the world go round. I personally can't stand dressing the way I did in high school, so I don't. It's a respect issue for myself. I HAD to dress that way because I bought my own clothes and couldn't afford anything else but Goodwill grunge. I generally don't have much in common with the parents that dress like their kids do either. I've discovered it's a different parenting style with most of them; I am not my son's friend, I am his mother. I demand that respect for being so, and I can't get it without that definite line drawn. (Now I have one of the best mannered kids out there, and I actually can take him anywhere and never have to worry if he is inappropriate, nor do people that dislike children mind my son tagging along.)

Frankly, I'm not going to spend $50 on a pair of pants, much less $400. I learned to sew so I could get bargain basement prices for custom tailored garments. Sewing isn't cheaper, I can go to any run of the mill place and spend a little less for clothes, but then I'd look like every other "grup" out there. It's not for me. Nor do I want my son to look like I can't afford real clothing for him, but I also don't make him dress like they did in the 50's either.

Because of my archaic ideals, he knows that Mommy has the free time to do all the school things for him. Many of the "grups" I do know treat their children as accessories, and out of the 4 parents that do attend all the school stuff, 2 are grandparents old style and the other one and I are parents old style. I've never seen a "grup" go to the zoo, or work the book fair.

Elaina