Formal Wear Primer

[dnjan]

Men's tussie mussie source

I seem to remember seeing a link posted a while back for a men's tussie mussie (lapel vase). But have not had much luck searching, so I fear it might have been from before the FL reorganization that had that fateful effect on a number of links.

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[Tomasso]

http://www.weddingdepot.com/tussy-mussy-c-23_52.html

 

[dnjan]

http://www.weddingdepot.com/tussy-mussy-c-23_52.html

Thanks!

 

[Tomasso]

My pleasure. Please let us know of your choice and how it worked out.

 

[dnjan]

I ordered a plain silver tussy-mussy from weddingdepot.com.
Unfortunately, they chose to use a bubble mailer rather than a box.
At first it doesn't look too bad ...

but from the end view you can see how badly it got smashed:

Since shipping cost more than a small flat-rate box from the post office, I am surprised they shipped USPS in a bubble mailer.
(which, by the way, shows no damage)

I have contacted them, and am awaiting a response.

edit - Received a very prompt response - they are shipping a new one (hopefully in a box this time).

 

[Cobden]

Just received clarification from the Oxford Proctors:

'“Dark” doesn’t necessarily mean black. For instance, dark blue would also be acceptable. The definition could be extended to full evening dress or morning dress (provided that the trousers were sufficiently dark), however the Proctors might take the view that wearing morning dress to an exam is not the correct kind of dress for that particular formal occasion. In any case, the jacket (whatever kind) is always covered by an academic gown.'

There you have it. Morning dress can be worn as part of subfusc but not to exams!

I appreciate the original post is from a couple of years ago now, but having recently been employed in a setting that involves knowledge of sub fusc (including policing it) and having looked into it's history, I may be able to clarify a few things.

Sub fusc is technically one of a dark suit with dark socks, or dark skirt with black tights or stockings, or dark trousers with dark socks; dark coat if required;black shoes; plain white collared shirt or blouse; and a white bow tie, black bow tie, black full-length tie, or black ribbon.

Note their is no gender distinction anymore. A man can wear a skirt and stockings, with the black ribbon (and trust me, it has happened!).

Technically, one could wear a morning suit to an exam, but would probably have to wear matching black trousers. However, it is atraditional; and I've not seen it worn as sub fusc in the Victorian era or the golden era. A morning coat would also look silly with a modern undergrad commoner gown too, I hasten to add (they used to be full length, though the modern short length was certainly in place by 1920ish).

If one wants to put together a "golden era" subfusc, it would be a black three piece suit with matching black trousers, detachable wing collar and white (not marcella) bow tie. It is worth bearing in mind that academic dress is of the same origins as both legal and clerical attire - indeed, in the 18th century an academic and a vicar would be indistinguishable - since then they have diverged, with one version maintaining the tie but allowing such "flairs" as lapels, the other the tie evolved into the clerical collar.

 

[Annixter]

I'd like to get some clarification about shirt cuff design with single versus double cuffs for circa 1920's white-tie attire. I bring up the question because I recently acquired a beautifully tailored 1920's Arrow stiff-front, detachable collar formal shirt with a rear closure. The front bib features elegant ribs, and the cuff material matches this cloth. The rear closes with two mother of pearl buttons and the collar stud. Now for my confusion: it has double cuffs (they accept links).

From researching these shirts in the past, and now after searching this thread, I find that many people claim that white-tie must have single cuffs, but I have have yet to find an explanation that doesn't sound like stylistic opinion, if an explanation even exists. It is easy enough for me to convert this double cuff to a single, but I am very hesitant to modify the cuff because the shirt is in like-new condition, well made, and has double cuffs for some vintage reason. What I cannot understand is that if white-tie by the vintage books requires single cuffs, and double cuffs are therefore improper for formal attire, why would 1920's Arrow create such a formal-looking, finally tailored shirt that probably would not have sold well due to its abomination?

I have seen people here reference double cuffs as being acceptable for black-tie, but the ribbing on the bib and cuffs and the other bib details seem too elegant for black-tie. In the end, it probably doesn't matter much, but I'm still curious. Any clarification on the subject?

 

[Qirrel]

I really don't know about the former (i.e. 1920s) status of the current "rule" that you may not wear double cuffs with white tie. It was very common to wear stiff bib front shirts with black tie/tuxedos. In fact, one would have been ahead of the times by wearing soft marcella-fronted shirts or turndown collars with black tie during the major part of the 20s. Regarding the fancy "ribs" in your shirt: the 20s were ablaze with crazy patterns and weaves. The variety in shirting was probably incomparable to what is available today.

 

[Tomasso]

I recently acquired a beautifully tailored 1920's Arrow stiff-front, detachable collar formal shirt

Would you be kind enough to post some pics?

 

[Two Types]

Annixter: please don't alter the cuffs! They were made that way for a reason.It sounds like a great shirt. Wear it with pride. As far as I am concerned, a lot of the so-called rules about menswear are nonsense. You only have to look at historic photographs and you'll see that most people broke these rules continually. Life changes, fashion changes and rules get invented.

 

[Annixter]

Thanks for the input all. Two Types, I too have a feeling that the single and double cuff distinction comes down to preference in most cases, and its good to get a second opinion on that. I tend to prefer single cuffs for semi and formal attire due to the less bulk, but the double cuffs on this shirt are thin enough to where they don't bulk up, so I like them just fine. I think I'll leave them be and enjoy the shirt.

A.C., I'm unfortunately camera-less at the moment, but I'll get some pictures posted when I can. I assume the shirt isn't nearly as spectacular as some higher-end brands of the day, but it fits me well and looks to be well made with a careful hand.

 

[Chrome]

We had yard parties at work month or so ago. Theme was early 1900's and this is what I wore. Ascot was a pain without a needle that I didn't have and it used to be my toxication meter as it got worse as I got "happy"

Pic grows a bit after clicking it (remains small thou)




Spats are bit off by color but those are only that I have. I'm satisfied to those, but have to get half size bigger tophat as that one leaves a mark in forehead but doesn't make head hurt

 

[BR Gordon]

This photo is taken on one the formal nights that we had on QM2 crossing from Southampton to NYC. I attempted to use all of the knowledge that I've gained on TFL to present myself well.


It's difficult to see in this photo, but I believe that I succeeded. Unfortunately, I don't believe that anyone else onboard would have known the difference.

 

[Two Types]

Bruce, I hope the trip went well.

 

[BR Gordon]

The crossing was great. The water relatively flat, the company on board was diverse, and of course the food and wine was very good and unending. The two things that I would have changed were; we could have used a little more sunshine and the dance floor could have been larger. I do wish that I was a better photographer. I found it very difficult to take photos that looked good.

 

[Midnight Blue]

Ah that brings back memories. In my case my quest for a proper tuxedo for my Queen Mary 2 crossing ended up leading to seven years of research and a 95-page web site devoted to the topic!

 

[Two Types]

I'm sure it was all worthwhile.

 

[AntonAAK]

Ah that brings back memories. In my case my quest for a proper tuxedo for my Queen Mary 2 crossing ended up leading to seven years of research and a 95-page web site devoted to the topic!

I've just been looking at your site again, Midnight Blue and I can assure you that your hard work is very much appreciated.

Anton

 

[David Conwill]

Another thread to which I somehow became unsubscribed. I'm glad this came up and I'm glad to have rediscovered Midnight Blue's sight - I just pinned it on Pinterest, so hopefully I won't lose track again.

Now if only I had someplace to go wearing a dinner jacket!

 

[BR Gordon]

Ah that brings back memories. In my case my quest for a proper tuxedo for my Queen Mary 2 crossing ended up leading to seven years of research and a 95-page web site devoted to the topic!

I have found your site very helpful. I have also found it referenced many times while looking for answers to black tie questions.