Formal Wear Primer

[esteban68]

I bought this 'Tuxedo' last week for a song from a local charity shop, it's almost a perfect fit and had no holes or nips anywhere I can find so it's a keeper...any guesses as to it's age?

The jacket is fairly heavy cloth, it is unvented and appears to be lined with fairly thick satin or silk? it four sleeve buttons and four larger but matching on the front, cross grain lapels, jetted pockets, it's also not very long just covering my backside.

 

[esteban68]

a few detail shots;
one of the 4 large front buttons

the four sleeve buttons

pocket detail

inside pocket and label

 

[esteban68]

The trousers are full cut/high waisted/ button fly with waist adjusters, one rear jetted pocket, two front pockets and also a small front watch pocket, fitted with brace buttons.....waistband lining appears to be silk?;

rear pocket on right side

 

[esteban68]

'watch' pocket

3 button fly

the only markings on the trousers

side adjusters

 

[Fastuni]

Nice. Solidly "40's" style. Date between ca.1936 to early 1950's. Does it have pronounced waist surpression?

 

[esteban68]

Yes it does, also just single inwards facing pleats on the trousers if that helps?

I tried to find out about the tailor but alas no joy there although the shop/s is still there but is now a very nice 'Chinese' restaurant, incidentaly the charity shop where I bought it was less than 100 yards away from where it was made...I doubt it's been worn more than a couple of times.

 

[esteban68]

I 've sent the trousers to my seamstress, I got to thinking that I would like a waistcoat to wear with it mainly because I know that at some point when I wear it I will remove the jacket and the trousers being high cut would look better with an appropriate waistcoat.
And I know with DB's generally jackets are kept on but I am being realistic as when jiving etc I would get rather warm with a mid weight wool jacket!

So taking that on board which would be 'correct' and what colour then all I have to do is find one or if I can get some vintage cloth get one made up???

 

[Anthony Jordan]

Given the challenge of colour/fabric matching and warmth issues might you consider a backless white waistcoat?

 

[Cobden]

I tend to wear a cummerbind with mine (which is very similar to yours), though that's more for when unbuttoning the jacket, as I don't remove the jacket unless the young lady I am with gets cold...

 

[Fastuni]

@esteban
As it has pronounced waist surpression, it is more solidly late-30's to 40's, and less likely early 50's.
A DB black tie is not worn with anything but the trousers and shirt. No waistcoat and no cummerbund. These are for SB only.
If you wear nothing below the shirt, it does not become too hot... Personally I would not take off the jacket - if I bother wearing proper (and vintage) black tie, then I do it correctly.
But modern facilities with excessive heating can be an issue for sure. But a light shirt will go a far way.

 

[Orgetorix]

I think that's stating it a bit strongly, Fastuni. A waistcoat or cummerbund is not required with a DB dinner jacket, but it is not prohibited either.

 

[Fastuni]

For "1930-40's standards" it is very clear-cut: DB black tie without waistcoat or cummerbund. Every tailoring/fashion publication of that time that I know of dealing with this topic mentions this.
Makes no sense either, as they would be additional layers with minimal visibility/effect. The DB tux is all about comfort while maintaining proper elegance/formality. It was thus ok to be worn with lay-down collars and softer shirts.

 

[Two Types]

Very nice suit. The label suggests to me 1950s rather than earlier. Not that it makes any difference.

I wouldn't wear a waistcoat with a double breasted dinner suit: you will get too warm too soon. Just wear it with a jacket and if it gets warm later, take off jacket - by that time no one else will care. Chances are, with a suit like that, you'll still be the best dressed man in the room.

 

[Belloqinabush]

I need a shirt to wear with the wing collar sans pleats and found one that would be perfect. The only thing is that it is ivory not white. Is this acceptable for white tie?

 

[Gin&Tonics]

May I ask when is/was the appropriate time for a frock suit? What should be worn with it?

I know this is super old, but my passionate ardor for all things Victorian forces me to reply to this question - a frock suit (or just the coat with separate trousers) was the Victorian (and stretching back into the Regency period) equivalent of the modern informal suit. It was the ordinary day wear for a gentleman. It would never EVER be worn for a formal event in the evening. For evening wear, they had the white tie and tails (black tie hadn't been invented yet) and for formal day events, the morning attire (with cutaway coat, waistcoat usually in grey or cream, and grey striped trousers)

In short, you may wear a frock suit or coat anywhere and anytime an informal suit would be acceptable. In fact, I heartily encourage it, because I love frock coats and find them extremely elegant when cut properly!

 

[dhermann1]

Wow! That made a light bulb go off in my head. Of course. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Luftwaffles]

What are some general opinions on Spencer jackets? (Not the versions that button, but I mean the ones similar to Mess Jackets)

 

[Tomasso]

I think you'll run the risk of being taken for the waitstaff.

 

[Big Man]

We'll be going on a trip to Charleston, SC in August with my son and his wife. While there, we'll be eating one night at High Cotton. I thought it would be the perfect time to wear a white dinner jacket. What are this group's thoughts on the following with an off-white dinner jacket:

1) Fold-down or stand-up collar white shirt with the black bow tie?

2) Black vest (matching the black pants) or black cummerbund?

 

[Fastuni]

If fold down collar take the cummerbund. Stand-up collar with vest.

Since the white jacket is a bit more informal I'd take the fold down with cummerbund.