Five Star Leather Jackets

[ton312]

Stay away if you haven't done your homework meticulously and if you don't have the necessary experience, otherwise things will go wrong.

I would say even having done your homework, put in the time, triple checked it....things will likely still be off/wrong, etc. It's baked in. To what degree is the question. Can people live with it is another. For me it was a no. I feel tremendous satisfaction and relief in selling off my 5 Stars. I feel lucky to have been able to do so honestly!

 

[ton312]

I will concede that sending them an existing jacket for a complete flat out copy will likely yield far better results.

 

[58panheadfan]

I would say even having done your homework, put in the time, triple checked it....things will likely still be off/wrong, etc. It's baked in. To what degree is the question. Can people live with it is another. For me it was a no. I feel tremendous satisfaction and relief in selling off my 5 Stars. I feel lucky to have been able to do so honestly!

Absolutely. A lot of guys on this forum have a lot of experience with leather jackets. If you are diving into this metier for the first time, a FiveStar leather jacket may be satisfactory. But if you have the experience we have, it will always be a step backwards and who can or wants to live with steps backwards? Especially when you've tasted the really good things... this goes not only for Leather Jackets. But sometimes you follow the supposed call of gold... to get a jacket for cheap.

Edit: Sometimes I have to smile, even experienced guys in this forum buy absolute shitty jackets just because the price is supposedly cheap.

 

[ton312]

Absolutely. A lot of guys on this forum have a lot of experience with leather jackets. If you are diving into this metier for the first time, a FiveStar leather jacket may be satisfactory. But if you have the experience we have, it will always be a step backwards and who can or wants to live with steps backwards? Especially when you've tasted the really good things... this goes not only for Leather Jackets. But sometimes you follow the supposed call of gold... to get a jacket for cheap.

Exactly! And I’ve followed you long enough to k ow you have experience with the best makers and nicest leathers. I can’t scrub the other jackets from my mind. It’s like this for me, if I CAN wear this:

^all sub $350

Why WOULD I wear this for $350 plus:

It just doesn’t add up for me. Others have a different experience, but that is mine.

 

[KBlake]

 

[Marc mndt]

This indicates that they have huge margin on their jackets. Which we already knew of course.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...eather-for-custom-jackets.102485/post-2741541

 

[Aloysius]

This indicates that they have huge margin on their jackets. Which we already knew of course.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...eather-for-custom-jackets.102485/post-2741541

I expect they do have a large margin but I think that calculation is off. In 2004 it cost about $10 in labour to have a shirt sewn in Pakistan. (I know because I spent a few weeks there for a wedding.) I would expect a leather jacket to take considerably more labour and at a higher rate.

 

[Benny Holiday]

I gave 5 Star a more than fair chance but after the crack pipe like hit of a new jacket wore off, what was left behind simply wasn’t enough to convince me. If others like their jackets that’s great. My experience was not one of lasting appreciation for the end result. This is why I sacrificed brain cells to acetone and alcohol based dyes. And even after all that…. $100 eBay sale.

Friends, I've been around here a long time. Lurked for a year or more in 2004-2005, joined 2006. I've seen the Lounge change a lot. Used to be some great guys shared immense knowledge of vintage 30s and 40s suits way back. They moved on a while ago after sharing all they could. I miss 'em and their valued contributions here.

Now fellas like Ton and Marc mndt don't mean to come off as being critical of anyone here personally. It's just that they are passionate about their hobbies and have garnered a lot of experience the hard way - buying, handling, wearing, and selling jackets, and they want to make sure people understand that there are better 'bang-for-your-buck' options out there. Five Star has its place, and they're not denying that. But once you've driven Cadillacs, it's hard to go back to driving a basic model Toyota. And these guys, and Mr Proper, are simply offering advice because they care. Given the price increase, you can do better for your dollar.

The advice is free and can be taken or left alone. Not everyone has the fine eye and appreciation honed by such experience. We are a rare few here on this forum - to the average Joe, we would sound like fanatics. 99% of the population just go to the mall and buy a jacket that 'reasonably' fits, and they're happy. But here we get into the nuts and bolts of stitching, and hide quality, finishes, tanning methods, lining, patterns, all the fine details. Some of you are just starting out or learning and there's nothing wrong with that or Five Star for that part of your journey into the world of leather jackets. But if you want to skip a few educational classes ahead, then the counsel of Ton and Marc and many others here can save you some time, effort and money, that's all.

 

[Marc mndt]

In 2004 it cost about $10 in labour to have a shirt sewn in Pakistan.

I find that hard to believe. I did some Googling, couldn't find figures for Pakistan but I did find that the 'Fair Wear Foundation' calculated that from a Tshirt with a retail price of €29 18ct went to the factory worker in India. The rest was overhead like agency costs, wholesale costs, retail costs, import fees and VAT.

I don't think anyone would produce tshirts in Pakistan if the labor costs per tshirt would indeed be $10.

 

[ton312]

I find that hard to believe. I did some Googling, couldn't find figures for Pakistan but I did find that the 'Fair Wear Foundation' calculated that from a Tshirt with a retail price of €29 18ct went to the factory worker in India. The rest was overhead like agency costs, wholesale costs, retail costs, import fees and VAT.

I don't think anyone would produce tshirts in Pakistan if the labor costs per tshirt would indeed be $10.

I agree. There are t shirt companies here in chicago making t shirts at that cost ( by making I mean buying a made T and screen printing) and then selling for $30-$40.

 

[KBlake]

Friends, I've been around here a long time. Lurked for a year or more in 2004-2005, joined 2006. I've seen the Lounge change a lot. Used to be some great guys shared immense knowledge of vintage 30s and 40s suits way back. They moved on a while ago after sharing all they could. I miss 'em and their valued contributions here.

Now fellas like Ton and Marc mndt don't mean to come off as being critical of anyone here personally. It's just that they are passionate about their hobbies and have garnered a lot of experience the hard way - buying, handling, wearing, and selling jackets, and they want to make sure people understand that there are better 'bang-for-your-buck' options out there. Five Star has its place, and they're not denying that. But once you've driven Cadillacs, it's hard to go back to driving a basic model Toyota. And these guys, and Mr Proper, are simply offering advice because they care. Given the price increase, you can do better for your dollar.

The advice is free and can be taken or left alone. Not everyone has the fine eye and appreciation honed by such experience. We are a rare few here on this forum - to the average Joe, we would sound like fanatics. 99% of the population just go to the mall and buy a jacket that 'reasonably' fits, and they're happy. But here we get into the nuts and bolts of stitching, and hide quality, finishes, tanning methods, lining, patterns, all the fine details. Some of you are just starting out or learning and there's nothing wrong with that or Five Star for that part of your journey into the world of leather jackets. But if you want to skip a few educational classes ahead, then the counsel of Ton and Marc and many others here can save you some time, effort and money, that's all.

I agree. What I would say, however, is that there's a proper way to offer criticism, and a less than nice way. I prefer the former. That being said, I'm just as happy with my 5*s as I was before criticism. My enjoyment is not diminished at all because to me the differences demonstrated by other members between 5* and more expensive makers are very subtle. They may not be subtle to some people here, but to everyone else they are.

Also, the point I was trying to make but gave up on, is that the analogy from Cadillac to Toyota (or Kia) is, in my opinion and even on your terms, inaccurate. As you said, most people go to the mall for a leather jacket. They might spend $500 or more on a Buck Mason jacket, for example. A custom horsehide 5* is superior to what 90% of people are wearing on the street. I wouldn't say that a basic Toyota is better than what 90% of people are driving, would you?

 

[Benny Holiday]

I don't post often here. Being an Australian, my analogy between Caddys and Toyotas is very broad generalisation. Made my point anyway.

 

[ton312]

IMO 5 star feels much closer to this:

Than this:

And frankly, with no offense intended, it looks and feels that way too:

^This jacket is no better than an Amazon prime delivered, cellophane bag wrapped jacket. Sure I got to spec the design, cherry pick the measurements, etc. but the quality was no better than the sea of Pakistani made jackets strewn all over eBay and Amazon, etc.

 

[KBlake]

Agree to disagree.

 

[Aloysius]

I find that hard to believe. I did some Googling, couldn't find figures for Pakistan but I did find that the 'Fair Wear Foundation' calculated that from a Tshirt with a retail price of €29 18ct went to the factory worker in India. The rest was overhead like agency costs, wholesale costs, retail costs, import fees and VAT.

I don't think anyone would produce tshirts in Pakistan if the labor costs per tshirt would indeed be $10.

Okay but I’m not talking about sewing t-shirts. I’m talking about buttoned shirts. It’s the same rate in India where I spent a good chunk of time last year.

I probably still have invoice stubs from last year. I also had a few workshops make up gilets from melton wool but I don’t recall offhand how much those cost.

I can’t imagine a leather jacket takes less labour.

I’m not in league with 5 Star here. My own experience was pretty mediocre.

 

[KBlake]

IMO 5 star feels much closer to this:
View attachment 572238
Than this:
View attachment 572240
And frankly, with no offense intended, it looks and feels that way too:
View attachment 572241
^This jacket is no better than an Amazon prime delivered, cellophane bag wrapped jacket. Sure I got to spec the design, cherry pick the measurements, etc. but the quality was no better than the sea of Pakistani made jackets strewn all over eBay and Amazon, etc.

This might be a dumb question, but why would someone with so much knowledge and experience with quality jackets buy the equivalent of a $200 Amazon crappy leather jacket over and over? Couldn’t you tell it was cheap after the first couple of jackets? How many did you buy before realizing this? Ten?

 

[ton312]

This might be a dumb question, but why would someone with so much knowledge and experience with quality jackets buy the equivalent of a $200 Amazon crappy leather jacket over and over? Couldn’t you tell it was cheap after the first couple of jackets? How many did you buy before realizing this? Ten?

Like you, I kept trying to convince myself of something that wasn’t there. The quality was never really there but I was having fun playing designer and hoped with each successive piece it would improve. If you’ve read through the thread you’ll see I tried numerous times to improve the hide quality with dyes and artificial aging, waxes, etc. To some extant it worked. But the pattern failures were still there, and still are.

The allure of 5 Star is that you can rip a copy of a more valuable item and it does produce a cheap hit. But there’s no denying the quality is sub par. It just is. This is why I’ve said, and you’ve presumably glossed over, my repeated comments about the entire process being a waste of time, money and effort.

I’d also add that part of what makes the hobby fun for me is exploration. I’m not a brand elitist. I don’t even have a particular style I favor. I’m an explorer. But you aren’t wrong, I could’ve cut the process off after 2 jackets instead of however many. Thankfully I sold them all. I really am thankful for that as these jackets have almost zero resale appeal. I roughly estimate the money I spent vs. recouped at around $700-$800(a very nice used Aero). This figure excludes the two I gave away free in the classifieds for other members to use as measuring sticks for quality of construction, materials etc.

So your question isn’t dumb, it’s valid. I’m just glad I didn’t buy 30

 

[Aloysius]

This might be a dumb question, but why would someone with so much knowledge and experience with quality jackets buy the equivalent of a $200 Amazon crappy leather jacket over and over? Couldn’t you tell it was cheap after the first couple of jackets? How many did you buy before realizing this? Ten?

When I saw the CHL and SXL disasters unfold in real time, I just assumed Canuck and Ton were going through something personal that they had to see through, lol.

I do think it would be a worthwhile experiment to see how they hold up at the shooting range. They might have accidentally discovered biodegradable Kevlar.

 

[ton312]

When I saw the CHL and SXL disasters unfold in real time, I just assumed Canuck and Ton were going through something personal that they had to see through, lol.

Hey man. It was Covid. Pandemic made people do weird shit.

 

[Aloysius]

Hey man. It was Covid. Pandemic made people do weird shit.

I added something to my post about how it might be worth it in the end!