Film Noir?

[Packin' Heat]

I saw Out of the Past for the first time only about three months ago (I had heard so many good things about it, that I kept putting it off until I had time to really watch it). Although the storyline was up-front Film Noir, I didn't care for the fact that much of it took place in the countryside; just my opinion, obviously. In addition, Mitchum's early lines sound like they were dubbed-in later. Although Double Indemnity is also at the top of my list, I think that it has rightly been pointed out by more than one reviewer that there really is no smoldering sexuality between Stanwyck and MacMurray, as one would find between Turner and Garfield in The Postman Always Rings Twice. Was Stanwyck really miscast as the blonde-wigged femme fatale? Would Neff really commit murder for her? I'm not sure, but to me she carried more sex appeal in The Strange Love of Martha Ivers.

The Postman Always Rings Twice is about a mutually felt animal passion that brings murder, whereas Double Indemnity is about an otherwise smart and nice guy being seduced by a sociopath into murder-for-money. There is a massive difference: Lana Turner is hot and foolish, whereas Barbara Stanwyck is cold and calculating.

 

[Widebrim]

The Postman Always Rings Twice is about a mutually felt animal passion that brings murder, whereas Double Indemnity is about an otherwise smart and nice guy being seduced by a sociopath into murder-for-money. There is a massive difference: Lana Turner is hot and foolish, whereas Barbara Stanwyck is cold and calculating.

That is very true, which is why the Stanwyck/MacMurray "love" scenes can't hold a candle to the Turner/Garfield ones (and which is why you don't feel any pity over MacMurray shooting Stanwyck at the end).

 

[skyvue]

I don't know that I'm entirely convinced the woman in POSTMAN didn't have something planned all along, just waiting for her patsy to come along. It's been a while since I read the novel (or saw the movie, for that matter), but Cain's women tend to be bad news.

 

[Packin' Heat]

That is very true, which is why the Stanwyck/MacMurray "love" scenes can't hold a candle to the Turner/Garfield ones (and which is why you don't feel any pity over MacMurray shooting Stanwyck at the end).

And, just to note, in both of the books the films are based-off of, neither of the seductive females causes the male to kill with conventional beauty (though in my opinion both their on-screen representations had it in spades). As a matter of fact, the books particularly state that the women in question aren't ridiculously attractive.

 

[Wally_Hood]

I saw Out of the Past for the first time only about three months ago (I had heard so many good things about it, that I kept putting it off until I had time to really watch it). Although the storyline was up-front Film Noir, I didn't care for the fact that much of it took place in the countryside; just my opinion, obviously. In addition, Mitchum's early lines sound like they were dubbed-in later. Although Double Indemnity is also at the top of my list, I think that it has rightly been pointed out by more than one reviewer that there really is no smoldering sexuality between Stanwyck and MacMurray, as one would find between Turner and Garfield in The Postman Always Rings Twice. Was Stanwyck really miscast as the blonde-wigged femme fatale? Would Neff really commit murder for her? I'm not sure, but to me she carried more sex appeal in The Strange Love of Martha Ivers.

Out of the Past is tied with Mildred Pierce for my top noir. The apparent dubbing of Mitchum's lines, although never noticed by me before, might have been due to any one of a number studio-era necessities (blown line delivery, failure of microphone to pick up the sound, etc.). It is a valid point that OOTP defies conventional noir paradigms in that so much takes place in a rural versus urban setting. At the Out of the Past podcast Shannon Clute and Richard Edwards have noted that in general the city itself plays a role in noir plots, i.e., gangsters, urban despair, the necessity of a hustle or angle to survive, and so on.

 

[Feraud]

The Postman Always Rings Twice is about a mutually felt animal passion that brings murder, whereas Double Indemnity is about an otherwise smart and nice guy being seduced by a sociopath into murder-for-money. There is a massive difference: Lana Turner is hot and foolish, whereas Barbara Stanwyck is cold and calculating.

To me this sums up the big difference right there between the two films. Two hot and bothered people planning murder..ho-hum. A cold calculating broad using a smart guy(and an insurance man to boot!) to bump off her husband- now that's Noir!
I'll take Double Indemnity any day. Lana Turner does nothing for me.

 

[Packin' Heat]

There's also the fact that Fred MacMurray as Walter Neff is cool enough to rival Humphrey Bogart. The lines! And I loved when Fred suggestively, but subtly, quickly unzipped then zipped his case.

 

[Widebrim]

And, just to note, in both of the books the films are based-off of, neither of the seductive females causes the male to kill with conventional beauty (though in my opinion both their on-screen representations had it in spades). As a matter of fact, the books particularly state that the women in question aren't ridiculously attractive.

Sort of in the tradition of the last Cleopatra...

 

[Widebrim]

Saw The Brasher Doubloon yesterday (poor copy), based on Chandler's The High Window. I had heard many times what a poor Marlowe George Montgomery made, so I had little positive expectation when the film began. Well, of all the Marlowe's I've seen, I would say he is the weakest, and brought little depth to the role (although some of that is likely the director's fault). In addition, his Marlowe was too forward with one of the female protagonists; in the novels, Marlowe hardly touches females involved in his cases (of course, Powell's Marlowe in Murder, My Sweet had the same problem.) Montgomery appeared quite personable, though, and I could see him playing Richard Diamond, Private Detective instead.

The movie version is much more streamlined than the novel, which is understandable considering time restraints, but perhaps too much. Although most of the story takes place in Los Angeles, it didn't have much of a L.A. feel to it. (About all you see to remind you that you're in L.A. is what's supposed to be a boarding house on Bunker Hill, and a neon sign outside of Marlowe's office that says something like "Broadway Hotel, Hollywood.") Perhaps this was due to budgetary constraints on the part of Universal-International; one wonders how the film would have turned out if Paramount, RKO, Fox, or Warners had made it. Even though the cops played a role in the unraveling of the plot, they weren't as crusty as they are in the novel, and Marlowe wasn't as contemptuous of them as he is in print. There were no real interesting camera shots or lighting that I recall, and the dialog seemed a bit flat. At least the ending was more satisfying that that of the novel; the guilty party actually got nailed. (Interesting side-note: one of the actors featured was 19-year-old Conrad Janis, better known for being Mindy's father on "Mork and Mindy," and who is still acting.)

 

[skyvue]

You may wish to track down TIME TO KILL (1942) with Lloyd Nolan. Nolan plays Michael Shayne, not Philip Marlowe, but the story is based on The High Window. It's not bad.

I don't think it's on DVD, but it shows up on TCM every now and then (at least, I think that's where I saw it).

 

[Widebrim]

You may wish to track down TIME TO KILL (1942) with Lloyd Nolan. Nolan plays Michael Shayne, not Philip Marlowe, but the story is based on The High Window. It's not bad.

I don't think it's on DVD, but it shows up on TCM every now and then (at least, I think that's where I saw it).

Thanks for the tip; I had heard of that version. I am a fan of Michael Shayne, portrayed by either Nolan or Beaumont.

Update: Thanks for the link, skyvue.

 

[C44Antelope]

Watched "Out of the Past" last night. Thanks for the sugestion. I really liked it. You know though, that lawyer must have been the dumbest guy in law school. Bailey tells him he's in danger and instead of high tailing it to the Oakland Ramada Inn, he just sits around waiting for Joe to plug him.

 

[Atomic Age]

Well, I'm not only judging her on her looks, but if the acting isn't there, at least a visually interesting and aesthetically pleasing actress has that going for her.

I didn't really get the idea that he fell for her mind games, which is why I didn't feel like the acting was there. And she would have been better looking had she simply had a more flattering hairstyle and maybe more interesting clothes (Bogart wears peaked lapels throughout the movie, and she looks somewhat slumpy in comparison).

You have to understand that at the time of the films release, Mary Astor had a reputation as something of a notorious woman. In fact she had been involved, as least on the edges, of a sex scandal shortly before Falcon was made. So the filmmakers were playing off of the audiences expectations of her, and it worked beautifully. However modern audiences don't have the familiarity with her that they would have at the time.

Doug

 

[C44Antelope]

Just watched Murder, My Sweet for the umpteenth time. It's a cute as lace pants.

 

[Widebrim]

Just watched Murder, My Sweet for the umpteenth time. It's a cute as lace pants.

Yeah, one of my all-time favorite Noirs. I know that Bogart is usually associated with Marlowe, but for me it's a tie between him and Powell. (Chandler actually thought Powell came the closest of any.)

 

[VitaminG]

Just watched Murder, My Sweet for the umpteenth time. It's a cute as lace pants.

I still want to see this. The book was great.

 

[skyvue]

Chandler actually thought Powell came the closest of any.

That's just because he never got to see the best of them all, Robert Mitchum.

Sadly, none of us got to see Mitchum assay Marlowe at the ideal age, but he was great in the role even when he was a bit too long in the tooth. I can only imagine how great a Marlowe he'd been in 1947 or '48, around the time he made OUT OF THE PAST.

 

[Widebrim]

That's just because he never got to see the best of them all, Robert Mitchum.

Sadly, none of us got to see Mitchum assay Marlowe at the ideal age, but he was great in the role even when he was a bit too long in the tooth. I can only imagine how great a Marlowe he'd been in 1947 or '48, around the time he made OUT OF THE PAST.

lol

Yeah, I've wondered how Mitchum would have done in the late-1940s. (He would have been in his early-30s; in Farewell, Marlowe was supposed to be 35, I believe, so the age would have been close.) What I think is interesting about watching Mitchum play Marlowe, is that the former was, in a way, reliving his past: back around 1940, Mitchum would have been dressing more or less in that fashion, driving cars like those in the film, etc. I wonder if he felt like he was re-visiting his younger life...and if he either lamented, applauded, or couldn't have cared less about the changes that he had seen in those 35 or so years...

 

[Widebrim]

I still want to see this. The book was great.

Just watch out for the changes you'll notice. Still, a great film.

 

[John in Covina]

I watched "Kiss of Death" with Victor Mature, Brian Donlevy, and a young Richard Widmark as the psyco hood Tommy Udo. This is the film that has the scene where Tommy Udo is trying to find out where a "squealer" Rizzo has gone to from his wheel chair bound mom. Udo ties her arms down to the chair with a lamp cord and pushes her down a flight of stairs. It was pretty graphic for the time and is considered iconic gangster noir.