Ever think some jackets are overhyped

[Captain Sensible]

It's not just the stitching on Himel jackets that can be off. One of mine has sleeves that are attached at different rotations. Still a great jacket/coat, still one of my faves, you'd only notice it if you were closely inspecting but when you see it it's not insignificant.

Having a wild Saturday night but just checked; the sleeves are off by 2cm; one side 2cm, the other 4cm relative to a horizontal seam across the chest

 

[Marc mndt]

Also, Himel does pride himself on their sewing techniques.

https://www.cycleworld.com/2016/02/...orcycle-jackets-cycle-world-custom-and-style/

He doesn't say anything about straight stitching in this particular interview but he does claim "every seam is dead flat". That's not what I'm seeing here.

 

[Carlos840]

Also, Himel does pride himself on their sewing techniques.
View attachment 309740
https://www.cycleworld.com/2016/02/...orcycle-jackets-cycle-world-custom-and-style/

He doesn't say anything about straight stitching in this particular interview but he does claim "every seam is dead flat". That's not what I'm seeing here.
View attachment 309741

It's kinda funny to read that text and then immediately see a pic showing puckering on the right side, a massively not flat seam in the middle, inconsistent stitch length on the left and wavy stitching all over.
Not what you would expect from a "Master leather jacket maker"...

 

[Rgcards]

Well, you guy are probably right. But I don't think this is restricted to himel. Hype and price are not commensurate with attention to detail

 

[Rgcards]

El marro, out of curiosity, does the iron heart 54 run really small? Based on what I can tell a 42 would be xxl

 

[dannyk]

I do...
I'm a musician, my job is to master what most people think is a simple activity, to focus on minute details.
It takes years and years of practice to become very good at it, IMO stitching a jacket is the same thing.
To me jackets are a craft/artform that i really enjoy because when i see a "perfect" jacket i relate to the hours of training and practice that it took to reach said perfection. The same reaction i have when i hear an amazing musician...
Some people say "i want to see that it was made by a human" to justifie poor craftsmanship, i think it's BS.
I enjoy seeing that the person who built a jacket cared enough and was good enough to make it as well as humanly possible.
I love the constant strive for perfection, and sloppy work is a real turn off for me.

If i didn't care about that i would just buy a Schott and be done with it...

Edit: sloppy workmanship is the main reason i barely wear my Himel, every time i put it on i know i am wearing a poorly constructed jacket, that bothers me more than how great it fits and looks...

I have a thought on This and it is slightly off topic but also directly related to this convo. Because it’s expectation and also what you’re paying for. For example when I buy a Vanson I expect tough as hell and capable of riding in. If I were to buy a Himel at his prices I would expect close to perfection construction. This relates to me with music as you said. I’m a bass player, and can play a bit of guitar. On guitar I consider myself a Joe Strummer it’s all six strings or none, no fiddly bits. On bass I’m no master virtuoso but I can play just about anything. But to me I’ve never considered my playing or my music as a super deep or intricate art/craft. For me music was just a delivery method for words, messages, and emotions. I never got into the science of it, or the perfection of it. I just expect it to make me feel something, or to convey ideas/thoughts to an audience. There is no right answer. You’re view is just as valid and as important as mine and Vice versa. There’s all sorts of music for all sorts of tastes, and in fact it’s the marriage of the two views that makes the best music. So I didn’t bring this up to argue with you, it’s simply to point out the same thing can mean vastly different things to people. We can all look (hear) the same thing and feel so different. To some a vanson is perfect, to some himel. What are we paying for?

in the end though yeah at 1,500-3,000 I’m expecting a lot more though haha. At that price there’s really no excuse. On that we all mostly agree.

 

[JMax]

I do...
I'm a musician, my job is to master what most people think is a simple activity, to focus on minute details.
It takes years and years of practice to become very good at it, IMO stitching a jacket is the same thing.
To me jackets are a craft/artform that i really enjoy because when i see a "perfect" jacket i relate to the hours of training and practice that it took to reach said perfection. The same reaction i have when i hear an amazing musician...
Some people say "i want to see that it was made by a human" to justifie poor craftsmanship, i think it's BS.
I enjoy seeing that the person who built a jacket cared enough and was good enough to make it as well as humanly possible.
I love the constant strive for perfection, and sloppy work is a real turn off for me.

If i didn't care about that i would just buy a Schott and be done with it...

Edit: sloppy workmanship is the main reason i barely wear my Himel, every time i put it on i know i am wearing a poorly constructed jacket, that bothers me more than how great it fits and looks...

I hear what you are saying. And believe me, after a few years on TFL, I do notice wonky stitching and other defects. Not enough to keep me from wearing a jacket, but it certainly registers. I’m curious about your thoughts on Vanson. Like me, you hold them in high regard. Probably for reasons other than perfect visual construction. Vanson are well constructed and excellent jackets, but full of “poor craftsmanship” if compared to LW or FW. To me, perfect stitching doesn’t always equal great construction and some wonky stitching doesn’t mean it isn’t a “perfectly constructed” jacket (thinking Vanson, Bates, even Cal here). Many times this simply is a visual preference.

I like the comparison to music. As a musician you may notice “mistakes” that don’t register to non-musicians. Me? I rock out during a concert even if a note or two is missed.

 

[Monitor]

Vanson are well constructed and excellent jackets, but full of “poor craftsmanship” if compared to LW or FW.

Don't want to add more fuel to the fire but the stitching in the photos seems much sloppier than anything Vanson.

Vanson jackets aren't pinnacle of stitching artistry but they are regularly very well, neatly and precisely made.

 

[JMax]

Don't want to add more fuel to the fire but the stitching in the photos seems much sloppier than anything Vanson.

Vanson jackets aren't pinnacle of stitching artistry but they are regularly very well, neatly and precisely made.

No fuel added. I agree with you. Well made. Excellent jackets. But most of my Vanson are not as precise as most of my LW. I think that is a fair statement.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

As someone who has owned two Himel jackets I will say that this is not acceptable for the price point in my opinion.

Neither of my Himel jackets were not perfect. My RMCs and Freewheelers were/are all better made.

With that said, neither of my Himels had so many issues. I had a couple of slightly wonky stitches and that was about it with mine. I was OK with that, but I personally would not be OK with this. Of course, you're not the first owner and you got it at a much more acceptable price point.

In addition, I would argue that the hype has cooled down on Himel more recently. He still makes nice jackets, but I think he is now more accurately known for his designs, patterns, and customization more than he is known for superlative construction quality so I think his reputation is more accurate now.

I think it's important to keep in mind that while of course you get diminishing returns as you pay more and more for jackets, I can certainly tell you that I can see a massive difference between the Real McCoys and Freewheelers jackets vs. my Aero and SB jackets that I had. It's up to you if it's worth it, but the differences are there.

Are there exceptions? Of course. I'd say Thedi punches above its price point from what I've seen and Field Leathers punches way above. However, Field Leathers is a complete anamoly and we all know that.

 

[Marc mndt]

Maybe the 'problem' is that Himel overhyped themselves when they made claims about their sewing techniques which they clearly cannot live up to.

 

[Mich486]

From my point of view I’m happy to give up some stitching precision in favour of unique design. I think Himel’s designs are generally pretty great. After all that preaching about stitching though I wouldn’t have expected that. Some people thought it was RMC. Can I ask why? Honestly all RMC stuff I’ve handled has been pretty much flawless so I was surprised to read that.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Maybe the 'problem' is that Himel overhyped themselves when they made claims about their sewing techniques which they clearly cannot live up to.

Well they do use the techniques they say they do. How well they execute them is what we are questioning right now.

 

[Marc mndt]

From my point of view I’m happy to give up some stitching precision in favour of unique design.

But what if you didn't have to. I don't think the one(s) sewing at Himel are also the ones who make the designs.
You could keep your great designs whilst hiring better machinists. Or is that a too bold statement?

 

[Rgcards]

and Field Leathers punches way above. However, Field Leathers is a complete anamoly and we all know that.

And there's the hype. I have never had a fields leather jacket in my hand. They may be the holy grail of all leather jackets. Having one may make you feel as if you were toched by the hand of god. But I do know at 1400 usd they are not cheap. I do know lots of companies make leather jackets that sell in that price range. Field leathers is a new company. A few people have them. Most people who spend 1400$ on a custom jacket want to be happy with it. So of course the buzz will be positive about them if they do a good job. But what about say Lost Worlds. Their owner is not very personable. Their web site is a joke. But they do have years of making jackets with nary a complaint. So how is Field leather an anomaly. Its hype

 

[red devil]

Interesting, I just saw this and my first thought was Himel... I could not imagine RMC letting something like this go beyond QC - although they might for all I know. I haven't handled many of their jackets.

Himel jackets were hyped - or overhyped - for a long time, but I think this couldn't last as we all got more savvy in this hobby. I still remember a white deerskin jacket that had the wonkiest of stitching. It was discussed here a few years ago.

 

[Monitor]

...people thought it was RMC. Can I ask why? Honestly all RMC stuff I’ve handled has been pretty much flawless so I was surprised to read that.

No argument there, and the only reason I thought it might be something RMC is because this particular stitching technique reminded me a lot of what I've seen on their Buco's.

 

[Carlos840]

I hear what you are saying. And believe me, after a few years on TFL, I do notice wonky stitching and other defects. Not enough to keep me from wearing a jacket, but it certainly registers. I’m curious about your thoughts on Vanson. Like me, you hold them in high regard. Probably for reasons other than perfect visual construction. Vanson are well constructed and excellent jackets, but full of “poor craftsmanship” if compared to LW or FW. To me, perfect stitching doesn’t always equal great construction and some wonky stitching doesn’t mean it isn’t a “perfectly constructed” jacket (thinking Vanson, Bates, even Cal here). Many times this simply is a visual preference.

I like the comparison to music. As a musician you may notice “mistakes” that don’t register to non-musicians. Me? I rock out during a concert even if a note or two is missed.

I think to me it is purely about the price and how it influences expectations.
Vanson aren't perfect, but they are IMO the best value for money you can find.
They are consistent in sizing, usually have great patterns, decent leather, decent stitching, have cool designs and are pretty cheap all whilst still being fully functional comfortable motorcycle jackets. They also have made a bunch of different designs throughout the years which makes it a fun hunt...

You can buy 4 Vanson for the price of 1 Himel, for that difference i expect perfection or as close to it as can be achieved.
Himel is supposed to be the three Michelin star of leather jackets, or at least this is where they are trying to position themselves.

I agree with you that a couple wrong notes don't ruin a gig, but they make gigs where you don't hear any wrong notes even more special. All musicians should IMO strive to play gigs without a single wrong note, or at least without a single wrong note that is noticed. (hiding/fixing your mistakes is part of the job too!)

 

[ton312]

I agree with with Ivan. Every jacket is overhyped. I’ve lapped it up on numerous occasions and some times still do. Some exhibit more hype than others. As painful as it may be to hear it ultimately comes down to buyer vanity and forcing oneself into believing it’s anything other than that. I mean I’ve dropped almost 1k on two denim jackets in a week (although I’m returning one). My wife brings hone a $7 thrift store Levi’s and I realize the error of my ways. Nevertheless...my own vanity has me believing something that really isn’t there but I simply can’t be convinced otherwise. Even when it smacks me in the face.
Tbh I don’t think I’ve ever bought a single jacket that was “worth it”. Regardless of how much I liked it. But I’m also not sure what “worth it” really means. I can’t quantify it.

 

[El Marro]

El marro, out of curiosity, does the iron heart 54 run really small? Based on what I can tell a 42 would be xxl

I think this jacket runs pretty true to size if you are familiar with their denim jackets. I think the XXL would probably be somewhere between a 42-44. I ordered an XXXL as this is the size I found works best for me in their denim. It is a little looser than I need but not at all sloppy.
The jacket is actually cut pretty generously through the shoulders and the chest but tapers in sort of an hourglass fashion at the lower ribs.