Ever think some jackets are overhyped

[Marc mndt]

And there's the hype. I have never had a fields leather jacket in my hand. They may be the holy grail of all leather jackets. Having one may make you feel as if you were toched by the hand of god. But I do know at 1400 usd they are not cheap. I do know lots of companies make leather jackets that sell in that price range. Field leathers is a new company. A few people have them. Most people who spend 1400$ on a custom jacket want to be happy with it.

I have a Field Leathers jacket and it's not the holy grail and I don't believe @dudewuttheheck said it is. My jacket is absolutely flawless in terms of stitching. It's laser sharp. But there are things that could be improved. I won't go into detail right now but I've done so on the Field Leathers thread. But at 1400 dollar I think it's an absolute steal. The amount of time Greg puts into making a jacket is crazy. I can't name any other maker who does that, no matter what price point.

Most people who spend 1400$ on a custom jacket want to be happy with it.

I guess that's true, but that doesn't mean I'm not able to be objective anymore when assessing the quality of that jacket.

 

[JMax]

I have a Field Leathers jacket and it's not the holy grail and I don't believe @dudewuttheheck said it is. My jacket is absolutely flawless in terms of stitching. It's laser sharp. But there are things that could be improved. I won't go into detail right now but I've done so on the Field Leathers thread. But at 1400 dollar I think it's an absolute steal. The amount of time Greg puts into making a jacket is crazy. I can't name any other maker who does that, no matter what price point.


I guess that's true, but that doesn't mean I'm not able to be objective anymore when assessing the quality of that jacket.

Wrong!! FL puts, what, 4-6 months into a jacket. Jonesywear puts 5+ years. Lol. Couldn’t resist.

 

[El Marro]

And there's the hype. I have never had a fields leather jacket in my hand. They may be the holy grail of all leather jackets. Having one may make you feel as if you were toched by the hand of god. But I do know at 1400 usd they are not cheap. I do know lots of companies make leather jackets that sell in that price range. Field leathers is a new company. A few people have them. Most people who spend 1400$ on a custom jacket want to be happy with it. So of course the buzz will be positive about them if they do a good job. But what about say Lost Worlds. Their owner is not very personable. Their web site is a joke. But they do have years of making jackets with nary a complaint. So how is Field leather an anomaly. Its hype

I think the hype about Field Leathers that I’ve heard this far seems to be justified, One talented man making custom jackets all by himself from start to finish. There is something very cool about that and the results thus far have been good and great. This cannot go on forever though, John Chapman of Good Wear Has showed us that at a certain point one man cannot keep up with the orders he receives as his popularity grows and grows. Greg of Field Leathers would be wise to learn from this example before he finds himself with the same problems.
As far as Lost Worlds there have been many complaints posted here over the years and most of them stem from the inability or unwillingness of Stuart, the owner, to admit mistakes and correct them in a satisfactory manner.

 

[dannyk]

I think to me it is purely about the price and how it influences expectations.
Vanson aren't perfect, but they are IMO the best value for money you can find.
They are consistent in sizing, usually have great patterns, decent leather, decent stitching, have cool designs and are pretty cheap all whilst still being fully functional comfortable motorcycle jackets. They also have made a bunch of different designs throughout the years which makes it a fun hunt...

You can buy 4 Vanson for the price of 1 Himel, for that difference i expect perfection or as close to it as can be achieved.
Himel is supposed to be the three Michelin star of leather jackets, or at least this is where they are trying to position themselves.

I agree with you that a couple wrong notes don't ruin a gig, but they make gigs where you don't hear any wrong notes even more special. All musicians should IMO strive to play gigs without a single wrong note, or at least without a single wrong note that is noticed. (hiding/fixing your mistakes is part of the job too!)

Very true about seeing a flawless performance. But that’s where the marriage
of heart/emotion plus technicality must meet. If I hear a few bum notes but see a performer/band ripping the stage up, running around, getting fired up, just lost in the moment those notes don’t bother me. I’d rather see that, than a flawless performance of a person/band standing completely still with no emotion going through the motions of playing. No point in playing a live show then. Just listen to the album. Conversely a ton of terrible notes or a singer who can’t sing a single note; no matter the drive or emotion is just horrendous ha. To apply it to jackets that’s where innovative design, unique patterns, new leathers is the inspiration/emotion, and the stitching, skiiving, gluing etc...is the performance/technique. I can excuse the odd off stitch for something different and it’s own. If it’s a standard pattern or some jacket claiming to be the best-then it has to be the best to make up for its lack of originality or to meet its claim of being the best. But alas this is where the music to jacket analogy must end because the limit of where all those things meet at a specific price; to be considered acceptable will vary for each and every person. Unless of your course your choice is Vanson. Because I also 100% agree with you! Haha vanson in my opinion is where all factors meet at the most acceptable price. There’s great stuff below and above their price. They don’t do any specific thing the best nor worst for that matter. Just the correct amount of everything at a justifiable price.

 

[Rgcards]

Not in any way criticizing field leathers by the way. Nor Himel. Just hyperbolic language inflating expectations

 

[Rgcards]

By the way , I have a goodwear and it is very nice. Probably my favorite jacket. John is just a great guy too. He mentioned to me he has tried to hire people before but they either don't get it or their work ethic have been off. Truth be told there probably not a lot of skilled leather workers hitting the work force

 

[dudewuttheheck]

@Marc mndt exactly. I'm not saying Field Leathers is flawless or the holy grail. I'm saying that from what I have seen and from the testaments of other forum members, his jackets appear to punch above their price point relatively. $1,400 isn't cheap, but the customization and excellent construction quality that we can see from pictures appears to justify the hype. Obviously there is an element of overhype, but as @ton312 points out, that happens with everything. I will be able to say more when I get my jacket.

This is a forum about leather jackets after all. If this place never hyped anything up, it would be pretty boring in here. We love jackets so we're going to be excited when we see stuff that we think is awesome.

 

[willyto]

I think we all need to be careful with overhyping Greg and Field Leathers too because that could actually hurt him as people will have way too high expectations. He just started as an independent maker but has been with Aero for years previously. He recently got his skiving machine but he can't just ignore what he has learned before and has been doing for years. It just isn't erased from his skillbook, he'll need to adapt to using his new techniques and patternmaking.

It has been mentioned that there are some fit issues which reminds of Aero which is understandable given his past.

I understand the excitement but hype isn't good for anyone. If you all overhype Field Leathers so much without even having handled their products it could backfire when expectations from clients aren't met. We can't judge a product with pictures or jsut by the opinion of a handful of clients that are members here.

We only have a few members here which have his product and as far as we know one of the jackets can only be worn open because of too much tension in the chest, sleeve pitch has been an issue and you all spent some time talking about chest tension, armhole seams and making graphics to try and figure out what was wrong with the pattern.

So yes, Shinki is nice, he's a one man operation, he's taking a lot of risk going solo and he's making cool designs but do him a favor and don't overhype his product because it could create problems.

It has happened with other makers in the forum like Aero, Goodwear, Himel, Freewheelers, Lost Worlds, etc and the end result is clients and members ending up disappointed and makers taking a toll on their reputation.

 

[navetsea]

Having a wild Saturday night but just checked; the sleeves are off by 2cm; one side 2cm, the other 4cm relative to a horizontal seam across the chest

oh well as long as people on the street mistook you as a rockstar then all is well...

I never spend even a fraction of these money on jackets so I have no real cards to play... but I'm ready to forgive slight wonkiness on stitches, leather is afterall unique and non predictable, it can be it hits a certain wild grain or different thickness and make the stitches went errant and its all one time trial, you can skive thin the seams to minimize these surprises but I prefer beefier less skived seams... but one sleeve longer than the other or have different pitch rotation is just uggh...

 

[Jin431]

As much as I like himel's design and the oil tanned dark brown shinki he offers, I am really having a hard time to be completely sold and especially considering the price point then it really is a tough ask. Im thinking I can get multiple jackets with that money or just add a few extra hundred dollars and I can get a brand new freewheelers jacket (not that I will spend so much on a jacket or will I? I don't even trust myself anymore considering how loose I am with my wallet recently lol).

FW is also hyped up but now that I have one of their jackets I can understand it more why it is so good but forking out so much money for a new jacket is so. . . Nevermind I'll just scour the classifieds and hope to find a preowned one.

Talking about Greg and his FL company, I think the support is well justified considering his price point and his skill set. He will only get better and I admire him for going all in and starting his own business in the midst of a pandemic no less. The business model in the long term will be hard to sustain, with him doing all the bespoke designs that he does and that he is a one man company. I don't mind giving him my business now because I want to support him and I will continue to do so because of his superb work and how he has treated me over time. I'm hoping the company grows to be a staple name in the business with other known makers we know and love.

 

[jeo]

Again, I love the jacket. The point I'm making is that I love it because of how it looks and feels when I wear it. Paying more because it's the right jacket for me is fine. But, saying it's worth because it's better made is kind of delusional. Frankly who cares how it looks under a magnifying glass?

Well you posed the question in the title of the thread if some makers can be over hyped.

Then you point out flaws in your jacket as if to say Himel is over hyped unjustifiably because...how can a jacket with these types of mistakes receive such hype right?? So it's not OK.

Then you say that you love the jacket because of how it looks and feels and paying for the right jacket is fine for you. So it's OK.

But that saying it's worth more because it's better made is delusional. So it's not OK.

But that it doesn't matter because "who cares how it looks under a magnifying glass?" So it's OK.

Well....which one is it?!?!?!?! lol just kidding

You do go to say in a later post that the main thing you wanted to point out is that some brands are famed for the craftsmanship but in a lot of cases it's more about reputation or "hype". In this case I believe you are correct.

In my opinion yes, many jackets and jacket makers are over hyped and some for reasons that I don't understand. Like I never understood why people hyped up Himel construction.

My first guess was Himel when I saw your pics. It looked all too familiar as my Frobisher is littered with these same types of mistakes as well. My Imperial is much better made and from my experience Himel can vary quite wildly in terms of construction neatness.

However after owning two Himels I've come to the conclusion that you don't buy a Himel for the construction neatness. You buy it for the leathers, designs, patterns and fit.

If it's worth it and if it's over hyped is something else that everyone should make up their own mind about.

At the end of the day everyone is different and everyone should form their opinion as to what they think is hype worthy but hopefully only after trying these different brands and not because other people say it or hype it up.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Hyped? Oh golly can you say "yes" fast enough?

Truth be told - 98% of folks who see any of us in our jackets cannot even tell what they are, let along how much work went into making them, and then even less have any clue the work we all went through just to get that perfect fit. Golly, it's good the things people do not know!

I do not own a Himel, or a FW, an RMC or IH. Likely never will. I've owned (and sold off nearly all) of some 15+ Aero's, Vansons, and even three Lost Worlds. Loved each of them for different reasons, sold nearly all of them along for similar reasons. Eventually, I was just not "excited" for anything new. This is changing a bit now. I was never overly critical about seam stiching, or laser-like precision. However it was easy to tell what was quality made by hand, verses assembed on a production line as quickly as possible, then pushed out the door in the name of sales.

This continues to have an effect upon my daily work. While the layman cannot perhaps tell a quality hand-made jacket from a mall jacket just by a quick glance, I am convinced that many people CAN tell the differance once they handle it. Or better yet, try it on. Some will not like them, but many more do. Same is true for other products. This is something I think about. The average customer is a lot more observant than they are given credit for. They can tell something that is shoddy of construction. They may have trouble expressing it, but it can be figured out. Once that repuation is "earned" it is very difficult to recover from it - no matter who you are.

 

[tmitchell59]

What a fascinating Thread! We are all Full of Hype!

My first impression of a Field Leather Jacket was Goodwear Leather, John Chapman. The crisp, clean design and rightful execution. A Student now a Journeyman. Like John he is a single person shop in a somewhat small but highly competitive market. His work doesn't appear to be in need of any hype. The line is probably already long.

David Himel is a character, also a person I would like to meet. Glad to hear he is mortal.

 

[Jin431]

What a fascinating Thread! We are all Full of Hype!

My first impression of a Field Leather Jacket was Goodwear Leather, John Chapman. The crisp, clean design and rightful execution. A Student now a Journeyman. Like John he is a single person shop in a somewhat small but highly competitive market. His work doesn't appear to be in need of any hype. The line is probably already long.

David Himel is a character, also a person I would like to meet. Glad to hear he is mortal.

Full of it, you mean? Lol

That's nice to know how you feel about Field Leathers, funnily enough Greg almost worked for JC at GW before he set up shop and opened his own company.

 

[navetsea]

from that other thread with Carl Murawski interview... its amazing how he spent more than 1 hr on a question how people who've never owned leather jacket should come to the hobby, basically to a single answer buy a new himel or be disappointed, didn't even mention secondhand market of his own jacket.

 

[MrProper]

hype or not hype I don't care (I gave Greg/FL his first commercial order). And whether something is of value to someone or not is also highly individual. If I buy something and I am happy when I using it, then it was worth the price, no matter how high or low it was. If I regret buying it, for whatever reason, then it wasn't worth the price, even if it was a bargain. Only if something breaks quickly, then it is definitely not worth anything.

 

[Superfluous]

What a s**t-show of a thread.

@Rgcards – I immediately knew that you were referring to a Himel jacket. Are Himel jackets worth $2,500? Not by any stretch of the imagination. FWIW, I never paid over $1,900 for any of my six Himel jackets (all purchased new from Himel) and they still were not worth the price paid. Not one of my Himel jackets is perfect. Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy them. Don’t ask me to explain.

With the possible exception of @ton312 's Zara jacket, every jacket on this forum is overhyped to some degree. I love JC as much as anyone – great guy – but my two GW jackets are both palpably flawed. One has a significant flaw that I see every time I wear the jacket. Thus, GW is as overhyped as any other brand. Yet, I thoroughly enjoy my two GW jackets. Again, don’t ask me to explain.

My new FCL jacket is very well made, but currently at the tailor because it is flawed.

Aero is a favorite child of this forum and I really like Ken. That said, I owned two Aeros and they both were spectacularly flawed – so much so that I quickly sold both. FL is the current brand du jour. I love Greg’s model and methods. That said, his jackets are also palpably flawed. FWIW, I still might purchase a FL jacket, but not because it is devoid of flaws. JL is another popular brand, but also palpably flawed. Even the exalted FW jackets are flawed.

Some cite Vanson as a benchmark of value. Maybe so, but I personally find Vanson’s seam construction, devoid of top stitching, profoundly banal and unappealing. Moreover, when there is no top stitching, flawed stitching is difficult to discern.

In short, all the jackets discussed here are over-hyped. The point of diminishing returns is likely well below $1,000 – probably below $500. I cannot justify any of my jacket purchases based on value. I overpaid for all of them based in part on hype.

I could continue ad nauseam (perhaps I am already there). Needless to say, I never read the book “How to Make Friends and Influence People,” and I likely further alienated myself with this frank post. So be it.

Ok, you convinced me. For Sale: two spectacularly over-hyped Himel Frobishers and two equally over-hyped Himel Kensingtons.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

What a s**t-show of a thread.

@Rgcards – I immediately knew that you were referring to a Himel jacket. Are Himel jackets worth $2,500? Not by any stretch of the imagination. FWIW, I never paid over $1,900 for any of my six Himel jackets (all purchased new from Himel) and they still were not worth the price paid. Not one of my Himel jackets is perfect. Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy them. Don’t ask me to explain.

With the possible exception of @ton312 's Zara jacket, every jacket on this forum is overhyped to some degree. I love JC as much as anyone – great guy – but my two GW jackets are both palpably flawed. One has a significant flaw that I see every time I wear the jacket. Thus, GW is as overhyped as any other brand. Yet, I thoroughly enjoy my two GW jackets. Again, don’t ask me to explain.

My new FCL jacket is very well made, but currently at the tailor because it is flawed.

Aero is a favorite child of this forum and I really like Ken. That said, I owned two Aeros and they both were spectacularly flawed – so much so that I quickly sold both. FL is the current brand du jour. I love Greg’s model and methods. That said, his jackets are also palpably flawed. FWIW, I still might purchase a FL jacket, but not because it is devoid of flaws. JL is another popular brand, but also palpably flawed. Even the exalted FW jackets are flawed.

Some cite Vanson as a benchmark of value. Maybe so, but I personally find Vanson’s seam construction, devoid of top stitching, profoundly banal and unappealing. Moreover, when there is no top stitching, flawed stitching is difficult to discern.

In short, all the jackets discussed here are over-hyped. The point of diminishing returns is likely well below $1,000 – probably below $500. I cannot justify any of my jacket purchases based on value. I overpaid for all of them based in part on hype.

I could continue ad nauseam (perhaps I am already there). Needless to say, I never read the book “How to Make Friends and Influence People,” and I likely further alienated myself with this frank post. So be it.

Ok, you convinced me. For Sale: two spectacularly over-hyped Himel Frobishers and two equally over-hyped Himel Kensingtons.

This is so on point that we should just end the thread here.

It'll keep going, but that just put a pin in it as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Marc mndt]

What a s**t-show of a thread.

@Rgcards – I immediately knew that you were referring to a Himel jacket. Are Himel jackets worth $2,500? Not by any stretch of the imagination. FWIW, I never paid over $1,900 for any of my six Himel jackets (all purchased new from Himel) and they still were not worth the price paid. Not one of my Himel jackets is perfect. Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy them. Don’t ask me to explain.

With the possible exception of @ton312 's Zara jacket, every jacket on this forum is overhyped to some degree. I love JC as much as anyone – great guy – but my two GW jackets are both palpably flawed. One has a significant flaw that I see every time I wear the jacket. Thus, GW is as overhyped as any other brand. Yet, I thoroughly enjoy my two GW jackets. Again, don’t ask me to explain.

My new FCL jacket is very well made, but currently at the tailor because it is flawed.

Aero is a favorite child of this forum and I really like Ken. That said, I owned two Aeros and they both were spectacularly flawed – so much so that I quickly sold both. FL is the current brand du jour. I love Greg’s model and methods. That said, his jackets are also palpably flawed. FWIW, I still might purchase a FL jacket, but not because it is devoid of flaws. JL is another popular brand, but also palpably flawed. Even the exalted FW jackets are flawed.

Some cite Vanson as a benchmark of value. Maybe so, but I personally find Vanson’s seam construction, devoid of top stitching, profoundly banal and unappealing. Moreover, when there is no top stitching, flawed stitching is difficult to discern.

In short, all the jackets discussed here are over-hyped. The point of diminishing returns is likely well below $1,000 – probably below $500. I cannot justify any of my jacket purchases based on value. I overpaid for all of them based in part on hype.

I could continue ad nauseam (perhaps I am already there). Needless to say, I never read the book “How to Make Friends and Influence People,” and I likely further alienated myself with this frank post. So be it.

Ok, you convinced me. For Sale: two spectacularly over-hyped Himel Frobishers and two equally over-hyped Himel Kensingtons.

You're using hyped and flawed interchangeably but those are two different things imo.

hyped
Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefits.

Flawed
Having or characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection.

You explained how all the makers you name are flawed in one way or the other. And I think it's fair to say they are.

But to what extent are benefits being exaggerated and by whom?

Who is exaggerating Aero's or Vanson's benefits? Or Field Leathers'? You don't provide any arguments other than saying that they're flawed.

Who is exaggerating Himel's benefits? Dave Himel himself.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...kets-are-overhyped.103390/page-2#post-2777245

Therefore I say Himel is hyped

 

[Seb Lucas]

I am dull on the matter of jackets. I try to avoid paying a lot for one and I am not all that interested in high craft, artisan made jackets - which I guess are designed to showcase what some dude with a sewing machine can do, amongst other things. Nice, but I don't particularly care. If you do as a customer that's perfectly legitimate. There's not an area of human expression I can think of that isn't dripping in cultish enthusiasms, fanboys and hype, so what? Try watches... insufferably boring.

I love leather jackets, but I play in the shallow end of the pool and my favourites still cost around $50-$200 and are usually vintage. Wonky stitching is part of the experience. But I guess if you are paying up to $2000 for a new jacket, any obvious flaws might seem like taking the piss. For the record, the best made jacket I have ever seen, with smooth and fine, even stitching was made by Banana Republic in Korea, a place with a long tradition of fine leather making, but a mall jacket isn't anyone's idea of fine craft.