Ever think some jackets are overhyped

[ton312]

With the possible exception of @ton312 's Zara jacket

It’s H&M man! H&M!!! And not to overhype it but....I think it might be the best jacket ever made in the history of humankind.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

You're using hyped and flawed interchangeably but those are two different things imo.

hyped
Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefits.

Flawed
Having or characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection.

You explained how all the makers you name are flawed in one way or the other. And I think it's fair to say they are.

But to what extent are benefits being exaggerated and by whom?

Who is exaggerating Aero's or Vanson's benefits? Or Field Leathers'? You don't provide any arguments other than saying that they're flawed.

Who is exaggerating Himel's benefits? Dave Himel himself.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...kets-are-overhyped.103390/page-2#post-2777245

Therefore I say Himel is hyped

I actually don't think that Himel hyping himself up makes his jackets hyped. Hype mostly comes from others. Fine Creek for example is hyped by people on Style Forum and by Self Edge. Even if Fine Creek were to brag about what they do, I would not say that the hype behind the brand comes from the brand itself. Brands and makers can claim whatever they want, it doesn't become true hype in the way we use it until OTHER people talk them up.

A perfect example of this is Bill Kelso. Andy would brag and talk smack more than any other jacket maker I have ever seen. He made Dave Himel look like a saint in comparison. He was that awful. However, a lot of people on here could not stand him for that and as a result, BK was not really hyped up that much on the forum.

Obviously, this is my view on the term 'hype,' but I think that it doesn't really become hype until customers or potential customers start hyping things up.

In that sense, Vanson and especially Aero are hyped on here as are a huge amount of brands.

You could even argue that I added to Field Leathers' hype simply by interviewing him as he was getting bigger. More coverage is a form of hype as well. Again, this is just my view on it.

@Seb Lucas that's why I don't even own a watch. I already spend way too much time and money on clothing. I need to avoid watches at all cost.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I actually don't think that Himel hyping himself up makes his jackets hyped. Hype mostly comes from others. Fine Creek for example is hyped by people on Style Forum and by Self Edge. Even if Fine Creek were to brag about what they do, I would not say that the hype behind the brand comes from the brand itself. Brands and makers can claim whatever they want, it doesn't become true hype in the way we use it until OTHER people talk them up.

A perfect example of this is Bill Kelso. Andy would brag and talk smack more than any other jacket maker I have ever seen. He made Dave Himel look like a saint in comparison. He was that awful. However, a lot of people on here could not stand him for that and as a result, BK was not really hyped up that much on the forum.

Obviously, this is my view on the term 'hype,' but I think that it doesn't really become hype until customers or potential customers start hyping things up.

In that sense, Vanson and especially Aero are hyped on here as are a huge amount of brands.

You could even argue that I added to Field Leathers' hype simply by interviewing him as he was getting bigger. More coverage is a form of hype as well. Again, this is just my view on it.

Yep - hype comes in many forms. We're using the word with cavalier impression. Hype can mean marketing bullshit (which I generally ignore) or it come from spontaneous appreciation by customers. It can be insincere and undeserved, or a genuine refection of a product's capacity to satisfy a market. Hype is generally used as a pejorative.

 

[Seb Lucas]

@Seb Lucas that's why I don't even own a watch. I already spend way too much time and money on clothing. I need to avoid watches at all cost.

Good plan. Do not go there there it's like heroin....

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Yep - hype comes in many forms. We're using the word with cavalier impression. Hype can mean marketing bullshit (which I generally ignore) or it come from spontaneous appreciation by customers. It can be insincere and undeserved, or a genuine refection of a product's capacity to satisfy a market. Hype is generally used as a pejorative.

That's true. We do usually use it as a pejorative. One of the points I wanted to make and maybe I did or did not say this, but I don't think it's all bad as you pointed out. Sometimes it's just people showing appreciation of or love of their jackets.

I'm sure I "hype" up Freewheelers, but I stand by everything I say about them. Not everyone will agree and that's fine, but I'm just sharing my experience. That's true for a lot of us. If we really like something, we are going to say so and explain why we like what we like. There's nothing wrong with that in my view, at least not inherently. Can it lead to problematic things? Sure, but let's not go too far down some sort of slippery slope argument.

 

[Seb Lucas]

It is also interesting how a particular maker or object builds a small following (and often becomes cultish on a forum) because it is pretty good and then it suddenly explodes. Prices go up, everyone starts to talk about it and then, inevitably, some people start to turn against it. But in the end no product is perfect for everyone.

 

[Monitor]

This is one discussion I won't get into but I will say that y'all ought to leave Vanson out of this thread.

I'd bet you that if you walked to any of the other makers mentioned ITT and asked them to reproduce one of Vanson racing jackets, let alone entire anatomically designed, armored suits, they'd stare at the thing, scratching their heads without a single clue on where and how to even begin, before telling you "Sorry, but this just isn't what we do.". Which is perfectly fine and fair! Because they don't. Field Leather doesn't, Himel doesn't. Not their thing.

But it's like someone's thrown in a bulldozer into a discussion on sports cars and keeps mentioning how it's got that protruding, useless thing sticking out at the front while Ferrari doesn't, and is therefore less aerodynamic.

Vanson works on a different level altogether, on just about every aspect of their trade but this does translate to their craftsmanship, too. Their regular jackets are always well stitched. I'd rate 'em much higher than simply decent. But that's not the point. The point is that Vanson will happily make you this...

...and it's pretty clear this takes a bit more skill than what we attribute to some other makers, while shoving thousands down their throats to admire how perfectly straight a perfectly straight stitch line is.

We may or may not like it, but I don't recall seeing something as elaborate as this by FCL, Himel, Aero, even RMC, etc., etc.

Certainly not by Goodwear, people are willing to spend half of their lives waiting for, just to get a leather jacket that, being made for war, literally owes its existence to the utter simplicity of its design.
And while I won't question whether they're... Good at what they do, I will say that personally (and subjectively, of course), I consider Goodwear a definition of a massively over-hyped leather jacket maker.

 

[Superfluous]

You're using hyped and flawed interchangeably but those are two different things imo.

hyped
Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefits.

Flawed
Having or characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection.

You explained how all the makers you name are flawed in one way or the other. And I think it's fair to say they are.

But to what extent are benefits being exaggerated and by whom?

Who is exaggerating Aero's or Vanson's benefits? Or Field Leathers'? You don't provide any arguments other than saying that they're flawed.

Who is exaggerating Himel's benefits? Dave Himel himself.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...kets-are-overhyped.103390/page-2#post-2777245

Therefore I say Himel is hyped

Respectfully @Marc mndt , you are being disingenuous. You have hyped the living daylights out of FL. The FL thread is a circle-jerk of hype. Nothing wrong with that, but to suggest that the brands I mentioned have not been hyped is unpersuasive.

FL is merely the latest in a long-list of hyped jacket manufacturers. For several years, the hyping of GW was deafening. The hyping of Aero has endured for a decade. Hyping is a constant on TFL. This is not a criticism – it is merely recognition of a reality. I am a full participant in the hyping atmosphere.

Himel is openly trying to create a brand and self-promotion is necessary for that purpose. I do the same thing in my profession. Anyone involved with client development does the same to some degree. I would not get much business if, in response to inquiries, I represented myself as merely mediocre. Does Himel’s self-promotion border on arrogance? Yes it does. He is trying to sell jackets for the top of the price range and a modicum of arrogance is arguably required. Its white noise to me.

Hyping is not unique to outerwear. I have seen hyping in every forum I have ever patronized. Car and watch forums are rife with hyping.

People – particularly men discussing their expenditures of large amounts of disposable income – are inclined to hype the particular vendors they patronize. There is an inherent propensity to support, promote, and hype the vendors that you selected. No one wants to admit that they erred and/or imprudently wasted a significant sum of money on a substandard vendor. Instead, we want our patronized/preferred vendors to be viewed favorably, so that our purchases are likewise viewed favorably. In the car world, I am aware of instances where forum members have flat-out misrepresented their dealings with certain vendors, and concealed material shortcomings, in order to vindicate the products they purchased from the vendors. Even here on TFL, I have read posts were people gloss over and/or minimize defects in their own jackets that, IMHO, they would be less accepting of if it was someone else’s jacket. How often does someone post: "I just wasted $1,200 on a woefully substandard jacket and I highly recommend that no one else patronize vendor X"? Such posts are few and far between. On the other hand, the following post is quite common: "I just received my $1,200 jacket from vendor y, it is a work of art, and the owner of vendor y walks on water."

Discussion forum hyping is a reality – it is the norm. And, it occurs here daily, if not hourly. Again, I am not disparaging the foregoing. To the contrary, I concede my participation.

 

[Marc mndt]

Respectfully @Marc mndt , you are being disingenuous. You have hyped the living daylights out of FL. The FL thread is a circle-jerk of hype. Nothing wrong with that, but to suggest that the brands I mentioned have not been hyped is unpersuasive.

We disagree and that's OK. Sure, I've written a very positive review on my FL jacket and the process of making it. But I dont think I've been exaggerating the positives. Yes I've named the positives, but I also said that I dislike all but one of their leather offerings. I also mentioned more than once that there are pattern issues that need to be solved. Maybe you missed those comments but they can be found in the circle-jerk thread.

Maybe my writing style comes across to you as 'hyping', I don't know. I certainly do my best to write reviews that are a pleasant read. But I personally don't think that I've been exaggerating FL's positives.

 

[Monitor]

I didn't find any of the comments in the FL thread unjustifiably hype-ish. There's subjectivity and then there are facts. Photos alone uploaded by owners of FL jackets prove that what Greg does is absolutely outstanding by any definition we agree on would constitute as desirable trait in a leather jacket. He seems to be making a great jacket many people seem to be happy with. Don't see any point in avoiding saying so.

 

[Superfluous]

We disagree and that's OK. Sure, I've written a very positive review on my FL jacket and the process of making it. But I dont think I've been exaggerating the positives. Yes I've named the positives, but I also said that I dislike all but one of their leather offerings. I also mentioned more than once that there are pattern issues that need to be solved. Maybe you missed those comments but they can be found in the circle-jerk thread.

Maybe my writing style comes across to you as 'hyping', I don't know. I certainly do my best to write reviews that are a pleasant read. But I personally don't think that I've been exaggerating FL's positives.

@Marc mndt It appears that you have misinterpreted my comments as criticism. They were not so intended. Your posts about FL are entirely appropriate and I do not take exception with any of them. You have posted your honest opinions. That said, you have posted many favorable opinions of FL -- both your jacket and FL jackets owed by others. You also have come to FL's defense when others (e.g., me) made a less than favorable observation. Again, nothing wrong with that. I have done the same with manufacturers that I patronize. IMHO, the net net of the foregoing is hyping. You disagree. As you said, we will agree to disagree. But please don't view my comments as hostile or negative. Whether we agree or disagree, I sincerely respect your input and opinions. Viva FL!

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I think the point is that hype does not always mean incorrect information or over exaggeration. In the case of Field Leathers, I think Marc has written accurate information and has indeed pointed out flaws. That said, there are a lot of positive comments about FL from people that own them, people in the process of ordering (such as myself) and those that haven't even ordered. This large amount of positivity is a form of hype. That's not a bad thing, but it does add hype to Field Leathers.

For example, if Marc and others on here did not give such positive overall impressions of FL, I probably would not have ordered a jacket from him. IMO, that's me buying into the hype to a degree. I don't think that's a bad thing as I expect to be satisfied with my jacket. I trust Marc and his experiences with Field Leathers and that helped make me comfortable with purchasing. It's hype, but I think it's justified and relatively accurate hype.

 

[red devil]

On the other hand, the following post is quite common: "I just received my $1,200 jacket from vendor y, it is a work of art, and the owner of vendor y walks on water."

Yes, I have seen this in other hobbies - mainly artisan type of products. A lot of people do not know what they are buying - it is often easier to buy what is hyped than look at it critically to get a proper understanding (the fear of missing out likely plays a large factor as well). And once they buy said expensive item they will make it look exponentially better than it is, and quite often even better then they perceive - or don't really perceive in any case.

On the other hand, it depends what you as a viewer are looking for, sometimes you just want to be hyped and will only accept to read lavish praise. In other circumstances, you are genuinely curious, and you try to filter out the misleading posts - good or bad - to try to find what something is really worth.

Luckily, I have been probably going on and on about this, but I think that we are much more mature as consumers than we were a few years ago. And it is with the help of quite a few members - new and old - that have made an effort to assess jackets objectively, and then explain in details for the benefit of all of us here.

I hope this trend continues, I really love these thoughtful conversations!!

 

[nick123]

We’ve all forgotten the ultimate hype. Horsehide itself.

....runs out of room.

 

[Superfluous]

I didn't find any of the comments in the FL thread unjustifiably hype-ish.

"Unjustifiably" is the operative word. You appear to be suggesting that, if the effusive compliments are "justified," no hyping has occurred; and only "unjustified" compliments constitute hyping. I respectfully disagree for at least two reasons. First, whether a compliment is "justified" or "unjustified" is entirely subjective. Second, IMHO, a tidal wave of deserved compliments can constitute hyping. For several years, GW produced consistently superlative jackets and received an avalanche of compliments. Notwithstanding the arguably justified nature of the compliments (at the time), GW was, IMHO, a supremely hyped brand.

Photos alone uploaded by owners of FL jackets prove that what Greg does is absolutely outstanding by any definition we agree on would constitute as desirable trait in a leather jacket.

"Absolutely outstanding by any definition" . . . strong words . . . also inaccurate. By my definition -- which is, by definition, a definition -- Greg's work has its shortcomings and flaws.

Ps: IMHO, your above-quoted comment, made in the context of defending someone else who was also complimenting FL, constitutes further hyping of FL. You do not own a FL jacket and, to the best of my knowledge, you have never handled a FL jacket, but you nevertheless exalt FL with noteworthy conviction: "absolutely outstanding by any definition." If it looks like hype and walks like hype, it is probably hype. Just saying.

Pss: Much love @Monitor

Its 3:00 am here. I'm out. Dog-pile on me in my absence.

 

[Superfluous]

Yes, I have seen this in other hobbies - mainly artisan type of products. A lot of people do not know what they are buying - it is often easier to buy what is hyped than look at it critically to get a proper understanding (the fear of missing out likely plays a large factor as well). And once they buy said expensive item they will make it look exponentially better than it is, and quite often even better then they perceive - or don't really perceive in any case.

^ This!

 

[red devil]

We’ve all forgotten the ultimate hype. Horsehide itself.

....runs out of room.

This is the best comment in this thread!!

 

[nick123]

This is the best comment in this thread!!

Just saying there are some very fine cows, or goats out there.

 

[Mich486]

I think the biggest hype on TFL at the moment, although I’ve got a feeling it has entered a decline phase already, is 5*. There I said it. I messed up my order with them and it was entirely my own fault but to me even at that price point the leather (premium goat) is really meh.

But it’s part of the forum game and there are passing “trends” going on even on TFL. Once is a particular maker, another time is a batch of CXL, etc etc.

This is to say that even if I regard myself as someone not easily influence-able (not sure this is English), it’s easy to fall into the trap and ending up buying stuff you normally wouldn’t.

 

[navetsea]

I think hype has to do with confidence based on previous success of a brand or person or studio, or designer, etc. would do no wrong even when the next project have not been made and still come as idea. hyped people are usually have not received the thing they buy, just there to keep the waiting less painful.

when someone talking of their past experience on brands they favor or praising item the own, they are just positive reviews.

it would only turn into hype when based on that they throw their money to preorder the next jacket, just because the maker tease a sneak peak picture about the collar tip of a new design or something