"Doctor Who," He's Back and it's About Time!

[Edward]

I am pretty sure he became human again in the big band 2, but he still has all of the plastic memories.

Yes, you must be right - my memory just isn't clear on the details.

That I am all right with, as long as they are brought back in a way which is consistent with the show, and not just "let's bring an old character back." I think that with non-time lord characters, it really does have to be the original actors, or at least should be.

Agreed on all counts, especially that it has to serve the story. I hated when Russell T Davies was so self-indulgent in bringing back all the characters with whom he had worked for a final curtain call: the Doctor and Rose being separated as they originally were was beautifully done, to betray that by bringing Rose back just because Davies wanted to work with Billie again was vile. That the resulting storyline was little better than poor fan-fiction was the rancid icing on a cake made of poo.

The Doctor plus female was getting kinda old. That is why my two favorite companions from Tennant's run were Jack, who is just a great character (he should make another appearance) and Wilfred (Donna's grandfather). Wilfred is one of the best characters that has been in the show, I think.

Oh yes, Wilfred was wonderful.

I'm personally very excited about the return of Torchwood. I love it. The darker, more promiscuous (thanks to 51st century attitudes and pheromones) cousin to DW. I adore Captain Jack. And... I loved Ianto. And that it was filmed in Wales.

However... I do not know how it's going to still be Torchwood after the cast changes. I'm not fond of Gwen, I find her annoying.

I like Torchwood. Gwen I liked, but it would seem better to write her out at this stage. Her having a kid is the right time, imo, for the character to move on and rejoin the mundane world.

And how on earth is Jack going to recover from what he had to do to save Earth's children in Children of Earth? I think he will answer a call when it comes, because he's Captain Jack. But he was rightfully, completely devastated.

Wonderfully dark character, I love what they've done with him in TW.

I would hope for more cross-over eventually, however. Matt Smith's Doctor showing up on Torchwood or vice-versa is much less likely now that Torchwood is filming in the USA. Unless they did something with this brief DW USA visit... but they're also different production companies now.

I'm sure that the intellectual property arrangements have been made that a cross-over between the two, being part of the same universe, is still possible. I wouldn't mind Jack landing in Who again, but I'd rather they kept the doctor out of Torchwood, myself.

I am concerned about how the show might change though... the budget being 3x larger is awesome. But... the violence was kept at a decent level (for my tastes anyway), and an American production company now? Ugh please don't go over-violent, Torchwood.

I'm less worried about the violence than about it losing its very "British" tone. It's not something I can easily articulate, but British shows like this have always had a very different feel than their American counterparts. I hope it retains the same tone of moral ambiguity, Jack as anti-hero, rather than making him a Mulder style warrior for truth. (I loved the X Files - right up til the last season, when it jumped the shark bad, but it's a different beast.) I'd like to see Jack starting over with a new team. You have to remember, Jack being essentially immortal, at least for now, for as long as he remains as is (and not transformed into the 'Face of Bo' as we impliedly saw him in Doctor Who), Jack's fate is to be forever outliving his own team and having to start over, to rebuild, and repeat the same cycle over and over.

One thing I'd like to see them do in future is to develop a series, or at least a half dozen special episodes, of Torchwood based in the past. The Torchwood Institute was established by Queen Victoria, so there is a rich history into which to delve, from the Victorian era right through the twentieth century. I'd love to see a WW2 era TW especially, or one dealing with the Roswell crash, for instance.

 

[Yeps]

In a related story, the most recent episode of South Park featured a Dalek parody called Funnybot, and yes, it did say "Exterminate!"

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Just finished watching the first two episodes what a great start for the shows this year. Bang up job.

 

[Yeps]

You have to remember, Jack being essentially immortal, at least for now, for as long as he remains as is (and not transformed into the 'Face of Bo' as we impliedly saw him in Doctor Who)

That annoyed me to no end, and I think it was one of the worst goofy tie-ins that they ever made. As explain in the series, Jack can't die because Rose made him a fixed point in time (whatever that means) which should mean that he does not age either, and certainly does not become the Face of Bo. I am hoping that the writers just quietly forget they ever came up with that.

Speaking of things the writers forgot about, I would love it if the Doctor's daughter came back, at least for an episode or two.

 

[Edward]

That annoyed me to no end, and I think it was one of the worst goofy tie-ins that they ever made. As explain in the series, Jack can't die because Rose made him a fixed point in time (whatever that means) which should mean that he does not age either, and certainly does not become the Face of Bo. I am hoping that the writers just quietly forget they ever came up with that.

I found it amusing enough, but they didn't definitively say it was so, so they can easily get away from it should they want. It would be plausible to me if they eventually did identify some time trick which would allow Jack to die, which would bring Torchwood to a close, from the endless cycle of him recruiting a new team, training them up, and being forced to watch them fall away and die of old age in retirement, or in active service. It could provide a great ending to the TW saga if ever they do want to put a deliberate cap on it.

Speaking of things the writers forgot about, I would love it if the Doctor's daughter came back, at least for an episode or two.

Didn't they kill her off in that episode, though? Of course, as she was a clone, they could easily produce another....

 

[LocktownDog]

So Jack is quoted as saying,

"Used to be a poster boy when I was a kid, living on the Boeshane Peninsula, tiny little place ... They were so proud of me .. The face of Boe they called me"

[huh] The writers may have something up their sleeves ... they may not ... who knows?

 

[Argee]

Didn't they kill her off in that episode, though?

nope, her partial regeneration abilities kicked in to bring her back to life without actually changing her appearance. She was going to actually die originally but Moffat asked RTD to let her survive. So at the very least he wants the option of bringing her back.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Spoilers!!!!





Riva is in prison for killing the best man she ever knew...

Could it have been her in the space suit???

 

[LocktownDog]

Could be. I was under the assumption the girl was Amy's future daughter, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Miss Moonlight]

One thing I'd like to see them do in future is to develop a series, or at least a half dozen special episodes, of Torchwood based in the past. The Torchwood Institute was established by Queen Victoria, so there is a rich history into which to delve, from the Victorian era right through the twentieth century. I'd love to see a WW2 era TW especially, or one dealing with the Roswell crash, for instance.

Oh me, too! Those little bits we've seen of him in Victorian TW were a nice tease.

Could be. I was under the assumption the girl was Amy's future daughter, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

If that wasn't what they were trying to insinuate, I can't imagine what they were.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Could be. I was under the assumption the girl was Amy's future daughter, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

I agree, but that doesn't mean that it was the little girl in the space suit later by the lake

 

[Yeps]

So Jack is quoted as saying,

[huh] The writers may have something up their sleeves ... they may not ... who knows?

I sure hope they don't, and that just goes on file as one of the most embarrassingly bad ideas that was dropped.

Spoilers!!!!

River is in prison for killing the best man she ever knew...

Could it have been her in the space suit???

That would be interesting.

Could be. I was under the assumption the girl was Amy's future daughter, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Well, since the little girl (Amy's daughter we think) got out of the suit, and there was the implication that it had "eaten" her it stands to reason that it could take someone else.

 

[Yeps]

I agree, but that doesn't mean that it was the little girl in the space suit later by the lake

Seconded.

 

[Edward]

nope, her partial regeneration abilities kicked in to bring her back to life without actually changing her appearance. She was going to actually die originally but Moffat asked RTD to let her survive. So at the very least he wants the option of bringing her back.

Ah! I didn't remember that. She could be a good option to bring back yes, especially to see her reaction to daddy with a different face!

Spoilers!!!!





Riva is in prison for killing the best man she ever knew...

Could it have been her in the space suit???

It has long been hinted that she killed the Doctor, though the impression I had before was that she had done so as an adult, hence her being in prison. She did also say something to the effect that she was a frightened little girl when she met the Doctor first, which would tie in with the girl in the suit.... though it could of course have been the suit that killed him and not the occupant (whether her or not) - perhaps the Doctor, knowing what is going to happen, when he said "I knew it was you, it's okay" was trying to reassure someone who was inside but not in control of the suit?

Could be. I was under the assumption the girl was Amy's future daughter, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Agreed.

I agree, but that doesn't mean that it was the little girl in the space suit later by the lake

Absolutely.

The other element to this is that the little girl seems to have been Gallifreyan, based on the fact that she appears to regenerate at the end of the second episode. Is it possible that she is River - and that River is a timelord (timelady?)? Or someone else entirely? A new identity for the Master? We've never seen a timelord appear so young before, which is interesting. Doesn't mean she *is* a little girl, of course; the eleventh Doctor is in appearance the youngest he's ever been, but we know he's well over 900. If the little girl is Amy's (she could also be River's kid by the Doctor.... we're assuming she's possibly Amy's based solely on the photo, but that could be a red herring), who is the daddy? They did seem to give some reassurance to Rory that Amy was focussed on him and not the Doctor, but what if they're going to play with his insecurity about that further as the series progresses?

 

[Puzzicato]

Jack is coming back -- the new season of Torchwood will be here soon.

Yay! Can't come soon enough.

It's now being made by Starz, and season 4 is set in the USA.

There seem to have been a few hiccups along the way - is there a confirmed screening date yet?

I'm less worried about the violence than about it losing its very "British" tone. It's not something I can easily articulate, but British shows like this have always had a very different feel than their American counterparts. I hope it retains the same tone of moral ambiguity, Jack as anti-hero, rather than making him a Mulder style warrior for truth. (I loved the X Files - right up til the last season, when it jumped the shark bad, but it's a different beast.) I'd like to see Jack starting over with a new team. You have to remember, Jack being essentially immortal, at least for now, for as long as he remains as is (and not transformed into the 'Face of Bo' as we impliedly saw him in Doctor Who), Jack's fate is to be forever outliving his own team and having to start over, to rebuild, and repeat the same cycle over and over.

One thing I'd like to see them do in future is to develop a series, or at least a half dozen special episodes, of Torchwood based in the past. The Torchwood Institute was established by Queen Victoria, so there is a rich history into which to delve, from the Victorian era right through the twentieth century. I'd love to see a WW2 era TW especially, or one dealing with the Roswell crash, for instance.

This is my fear too. I loved that it was set in Cardiff and had all the Welsh accents. I don't know how an American setting would match up. And I agree about the moral ambiguity - I find it very hard to believe that an American studio would have allowed Captain Jack to kill his own grandson, even if it is to save the children of Earth.

Oh well, we will see.

 

[davidraphael]

Torchwood will be here soon!
I too fear that the storylines will be compromised by the US co-production, but we'll see....

 

[PADDY]

Interesting suggestions and speculations.

 

[Yeps]

The other element to this is that the little girl seems to have been Gallifreyan, based on the fact that she appears to regenerate at the end of the second episode. Is it possible that she is River - and that River is a timelord (timelady?)? Or someone else entirely? A new identity for the Master? We've never seen a timelord appear so young before, which is interesting. Doesn't mean she *is* a little girl, of course; the eleventh Doctor is in appearance the youngest he's ever been, but we know he's well over 900. If the little girl is Amy's (she could also be River's kid by the Doctor.... we're assuming she's possibly Amy's based solely on the photo, but that could be a red herring), who is the daddy? They did seem to give some reassurance to Rory that Amy was focussed on him and not the Doctor, but what if they're going to play with his insecurity about that further as the series progresses?

There was also the big hint of "what if traveling in the TARDIS in utero effects the baby in some way." Something about a time-head. I am not very clear on the old series, but I know that regeneration is very closely tied to the TARDIS.

I also don't think that she is time-lord because she has regenerated several times as a small child, which indicates to me that something is not right. My thought is that the TARDIS, being awesome like she is, somehow gave Amy's daughter regenerating abilities.

There is also that part about the pregnancy scan fluctuating between positive and negative, which is particularly odd.

And I refuse to believe that there was any hanky panky in the TARDIS. The Doctor cannot be the the father of Amy's daughter. He has seemed pretty darn good at resisting her advances, and since Rory became cool, it just wouldn't make sense.

 

[Formeruser012523]

I'm so excited to join the FL and to see so many Who fans here just makes it even better.

I've been a fan since about 10 years ago, when I first saw Who on my local PBS late one night. It was Tom Baker & he will definitely always be "my" doctor. I have tapes & tapes of episodes I couldn't stay up late enough to watch. You are making me want to dig out my box of them & watch the Key to Time series again!

Wasn't so fond of Eccleston(sp?) but am still attached to Tennant's. (& yes, I wept like a little girl when he & Rose were initially separtated! So VERY glad I missed the episode where she returned. Sounds HORRIBLE!) He's my 2nd favorite because he reminded me so much of Baker.

Guess I need to go to Netflix to find the new Doctor. Sounds fun!

 

[Edward]

And I refuse to believe that there was any hanky panky in the TARDIS. The Doctor cannot be the the father of Amy's daughter. He has seemed pretty darn good at resisting her advances, and since Rory became cool, it just wouldn't make sense.

Oh, on that I agree completely. I still struggle when they try to introduce even the concept of the Doctor having a love interest: I much prefer him when he is aloof and above such human nonsense.

I'm so excited to join the FL and to see so many Who fans here just makes it even better.

I've been a fan since about 10 years ago, when I first saw Who on my local PBS late one night. It was Tom Baker & he will definitely always be "my" doctor. I have tapes & tapes of episodes I couldn't stay up late enough to watch. You are making me want to dig out my box of them & watch the Key to Time series again!

Wasn't so fond of Eccleston(sp?) but am still attached to Tennant's. (& yes, I wept like a little girl when he & Rose were initially separtated! So VERY glad I missed the episode where she returned. Sounds HORRIBLE!) He's my 2nd favorite because he reminded me so much of Baker.

Guess I need to go to Netflix to find the new Doctor. Sounds fun!

I liked Eccleston's Doctor a lot. He was only ever going to do one series, a shame as I think he still had a lot of scope for development. He did bring a darker edge to the Doctor and made him a credible, believable character for the twenty-first century. They could never have done that with Colin Baker in his clown costume, for example. (A real shame, as actually Colin Baker was quite a good Doctor, but he really was not given the best of material with which to work, and the costume department really stuffed him). Tennant did indeed remind me also much more of Tom Baker than his own favourite, Peter Davidson. Great Doctor, and one who went at exactly the right time, even if I would like to have seen what he could have done with someone beter than Russell T Davies at the helm. RTD did a lot for Who bringing it back, but he also wrote every single one of the worst episodes, and stuffed up every single end of season episode on his watch in the most awful way. Moffat wasn't as good as I had hoped in his first season in charge: he made it much too 'kiddy-friendly' for my liking. Still, he did put out quite a few very good episodes, and I'm very keen with what he has done this year, so far. Matt Smith is well worth you checking out; very much his own Doctor, an excellent successor to Tennant, which must have been a daunting task given the latter's popularity and success as the tenth Doctor.