Do you think there could be a second Great Depression?

[Atticus Finch]

I'm not sure if these are the worst economic times I've ever experienced, but I'm quite sure this is the most confusing economic period of my fifty-five years. I keep hearing how bad things are and how people are losing their jobs and living on shoe strings. I keep seeing energy prices increasing and the saving rate falling, and I hear lots of talk about the economy continuing a slow, steady decline.

But I don't actually see people doing much different than they did three or four years ago.

On the weekends, the coast here is more flooded than ever with tourists. Everybody seems to have a huge, new boat. Cars, trucks and SUVs that cost fifty grand and up are still being sold. Kids are still going to their private schools. Restaurants here are packed every night. No one appears to really care that gas cost $3.68 per gallon. Everybody I know still buys their Lotto tickets. Everybody I know takes off the entire month of August for vacation. Yep. I keep hearing that the economy is bad...but I just don't see it.

And I am left so confused.

AF

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I'm not sure if these are the worst economic times I've ever experienced, but I'm quite sure this is the most confusing economic period of my fifty-five years. I keep hearing how bad things are and how people are losing their jobs and living on shoe strings. I keep seeing energy prices increasing and the saving rate falling, and I hear lots of talk about the economy continuing a slow, steady decline.

But I don't actually see people doing much different than they did three or four years ago.

On the weekends, the coast here is more flooded than ever with tourists. Everybody seems to have a huge, new boat. Cars, trucks and SUVs that cost fifty grand and up are still being sold. Kids are still going to their private schools. Restaurants here are packed every night. No one appears to really care that gas cost $3.68 per gallon. Everybody I know still buys their Lotto tickets. Everybody I know takes off the entire month of August for vacation. Yep. I keep hearing that the economy is bad...but I just don't see it.

And I am left so confused.

AF

Sounds like you live in an affluent area.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Actually, no. I live in Eastern North Carolina...hardly affluent...in fact, probably better described as "dirt poor". Again, I'm confused. Living where I do and doing what I do, I'm inclined to think I should see stark evidence of the hard times I'm hearing about. But I really don't. Things appear to be about the same as they were several years ago.

Come to think of it, maybe we were just poor then, too.

AF

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Actually, no. I live in Eastern North Carolina...hardly affluent...in fact, probably better described as "dirt poor". Again, I'm confused. Living where I do and doing what I do, I'm inclined to think I should see stark evidence of the hard times I'm hearing about. But I really don't. Things appear to be about the same as they were several years ago.

Come to think of it, maybe we were just poor then, too.

AF

Or maybe all of the toys and vacations were paid with credit cards. Many people live on credit.

 

[hatophile]

Actually, no. I live in Eastern North Carolina...hardly affluent...in fact, probably better described as "dirt poor". Again, I'm confused. Living where I do and doing what I do, I'm inclined to think I should see stark evidence of the hard times I'm hearing about. But I really don't. Things appear to be about the same as they were several years ago.

Come to think of it, maybe we were just poor then, too.

AF

I'm seeing the same here in NE Ohio. This is the old "Rust Belt", but despite the closing of many factories and plants, others have opened and are going full speed ahead. We are most definitely not an affluent area and things don't seem that much different than before.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I'm in the book business which I suspect had been in decline long before the economy did. I've seen people hem and haw over an $8-10 book because it apparently represents a big chunk out of their finances yet they'll turn around and spend $500+ on the latest electronic gadget (even today) without giving it a second thought.

Or maybe all of the toys and vacations were paid with credit cards. Many people live on credit.

In one respect I think that makes our present time worse than the Depression. I could be wrong but during the Depression while a lot of people didn't have money, at the same time there wasn't quite the massive volume of debt like you see today as credit cards weren't that common back then.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm finding it impossible to even comprehend a world where ordinary people take a whole month off for vacations. They aren't any of the people I know, or have ever known.

As far as evidence goes, I still see an awful lot of foreclosure notices in the paper -- a lot more of those than there are of job ads.

 

[kamikat]

I'm a hairstylist and I see a direct impact of the bad economy. Clients who used to come in for a trim every 4-6wks are now stretching it out to 8-10wks. Women who were getting high-end haircoloring techniques have switched to cheaper techniques. The women who would come in on a Saturday afternoon just for an evening style have stopped.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In one respect I think that makes our present time worse than the Depression. I could be wrong but during the Depression while a lot of people didn't have money, at the same time there wasn't quite the massive volume of debt like you see today as credit cards weren't that common back then.

Credit cards as we know them today -- revolving balance accounts at a high interest rate -- didn't exist during the Depression. When people needed fast cash they went to a finance company or a pawnshop.

 

[Undertow]

...I've seen people hem and haw over an $8-10 book because it apparently represents a big chunk out of their finances yet they'll turn around and spend $500+ on the latest electronic gadget (even today) without giving it a second thought...In one respect I think that makes our present time worse than the Depression...

I think this is an interesting sociological observation. Granted, we don't have the rigors of science for this anecdote, but I would like to say I see this alot too. It seems major purchases ($200+) which a person believes are necessary are placed on credit, while minor purchases are scrutinized to death. It's a priority syndrome of sorts.

I've seen this myself, really. It's difficult to talk friends into going out to eat one night, but they don't blink when discussing the new surround sound system they just installed. A system, no matter how frivolous, seems like a better value than a night out for dinner.

 

[rue]

I know that I once had a certain amount of money in stocks and when the crash happened it ended up being half of what it was. We have definitely been living under our means ever since, because it was so scary, but no one around us does. I just don't understand how people can afford what they do, even with credit cards.

 

[sheeplady]

We have definitely been living under our means ever since, because it was so scary, but no one around us does. I just don't understand how people can afford what they do, even with credit cards.

They honestly don't care. Seriously. There is an entire set of people out there who have an attitude of "Well, I'll make more money tomorrow" or "I'll go bankrupt if it comes to that."

One of the things that I have serious doubts about in our modern culture is the fact that a huge chunk of people can't see 5 inches past their faces. I'm not sure if that is because in their lives somebody always caught them when they fell or there are magical money trees someplace. They have never needed to be responsible because they have always had a safety net.

I think there are some people who also are very naive and in some cases purposefully ignorant about not having money is like. I have heard some people say that all homeless people are "addicts and mental cases," which I think is a way to say "I can't become homeless because I'm not an addict nor do I suffer from a mental illness. Therefore, I can't become homeless no matter what I do- people like me don't live off the streets." "Obviously, those people that don't have aren't like me."

Combine the lack of responsibility with a purposeful stereotyping of who is "poor" and add a sense of entitlement, and you get people who will spend, spend, and spend some more. Because they don't think they are (or should be) responsible, they don't see any consequences, and they think they deserve it. And they honestly don't care who gets stuck with the bill.

 

[Atticus Finch]

I just don't understand how people can afford what they do, even with credit cards.

Nor do I, Rue. It seems like credit card use could explain a certain amount of short-term spending, but how could a family maintain a long-term lifestyle on credit cards?

Jackie and I have a more than decent combined income. She's a critical care nurse at a large hospital and I'm an attorney. We have no children to support. We've no car payments, student loans payments, boat payments or credit card payments. Truthfully, we only have a modest house payment. Still, I often sit and wonder where our money goes each month. I see my friends and neighbors...who have children in college and other financial obligations...buy new cars, boats, houses and seemingly whatever they want...whenever they want it. I'm happy for them, but watch and puzzle how.

AF

 

[rue]

I think there are some people who also are very naive and in some cases purposefully ignorant about not having money is like. I have heard some people say that all homeless people are "addicts and mental cases," which I think is a way to say "I can't become homeless because I'm not an addict nor do I suffer from a mental illness. Therefore, I can't become homeless no matter what I do- people like me don't live off the streets." "Obviously, those people that don't have aren't like me."

Those people need to talk to the people living in the woods in tents that used to be millionaires. It sickens me how irresponsible and ignorant people have gotten.

 

[rue]

Nor do I, Rue. It seems like credit card use could explain a certain amount of short-term spending, but how could a family maintain a long-term lifestyle on credit cards?

Jackie and I have a more than decent combined income. She's a critical care nurse at a large hospital and I'm an attorney. We have no children to support. We've no car payments, student loans payments, boat payments or credit card payments. Truthfully, we only have a modest house payment. Still, I often sit and wonder where our money goes each month. I see my friends and neighbors...who have children in college and other financial obligations...buy new cars, boats, houses and seemingly whatever they want...whenever they want it. I'm happy for them, but watch and puzzle how.

AF

I know exactly what you mean.... my husband is in the army and because of his position he makes a decent living and along with some money I inherited we're doing okay, but we don't have credit cards, we don't eat out very often and we are really frugal. My teenage daughter gets upset because we won't give her hundreds of dollars to spend at the mall every weekend like her friends, but they make less than we do and it's hard to explain to her that those people are heavily in debt unlike us because of the way they live. It's very frustrating.

 

[jamespowers]

I know exactly what you mean.... my husband is in the army and because of his position he makes a decent living and along with some money I inherited we're doing okay, but we don't have credit cards, we don't eat out very often and we are really frugal. My teenage daughter gets upset because we won't give her hundreds of dollars to spend at the mall every weekends like her friends, but they make less than we do and it's hard to explain to her that those people are heavily in debt unlike us because of the way they live. It's very frustrating.

It is tough when you have children raising children in your neighborhood. :eusa_doh:

 

[rue]

True statement right there.

 

[Gregg Axley]

I fear we will have a second great depression. Both parties have let things go for decades, to bring about what we have now. I think many on here have summed it up, "living beyond our means." IMHO I see it as a nation doing that.
Thankfully I have a wife that paid off debt due to cancer long before we met. She's been debt free for several years and still can't believe it.
Atticus my wife and I are in a similar position as you, and we wonder WHERE the money goes. :eusa_doh: Two of us, shopping at Walmart each week, spending close to $150 for groceries. Over a year ago my wife and I sat down and discussed what needed to be paid off, because of what might happen (the subject of this thread). We paid off the only car we owe on, just the other day! Whew....
Stocking up, my wife and I are big believers in this.
I shop at sales both online and in the store, mainly for clothes. If nothing happens, oh well I got some good deals. If it does, it might be a long time before clothes become affordable again, might as well get some while I can. I use a double edged safety razor, using only 8 blades per year, and so far the shave soap I have is 17mos old and I still have some left in the bowl. We look for quality in things, yes it may cost a bit more, but we feel it will come in handy one day.
I think looking to the past might prepare us in case this does happen...which is why I'm glad I found the FL, a wealth of information.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Still, I often sit and wonder where our money goes each month.

While this is probably not you. For many others who ask themselves the same question. Here's the answer. [huh]

Those chat minutes add up.

 

[Gregg Axley]

Whew, I thought you meant the donuts. I was wondering how you saw me on Saturday mornings!
Oh yeah, "stuff" eats up a lot of money.
One thing we've done in the past year was find heating and cooling leaks in the house. It saves you quite a bit replacing storm windows, adding insulation, thermal drapes, etc. Stuff may eat up money, but finding where the "bleeding" is and stopping it helps out a lot.