Do you think there could be a second Great Depression?

[sheeplady]

Those people need to talk to the people living in the woods in tents that used to be millionaires. It sickens me how irresponsible and ignorant people have gotten.

My favorite discussion of all time centering on socioeconomic class was with a man in his late 40s and a woman in her late 30s (old enough to have seen some of the world at large). They insisted that absolutely no one (who was legally in the United States) worked full time and made under $17,000 a year. After I showed them the math for someone who made minimum wage and worked 60 hours a week, she reassured me that nobody actually gets paid the minimum wage, as it's a "fake number." :eusa_doh:

I blame middle-upper-class suburbia which have self-contained school districts for some of this. If you go to schools and live in neighborhoods where everyone else is like you, you assume that everyone else is like you too. Income-wise, house-wise, family-wise, etc. And if they're not the same, it's because they are somehow basically different, in a way that you can't be.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I blame middle-upper-class suburbia which have self-contained school districts for some of this. If you go to schools and live in neighborhoods where everyone else is like you, you assume that everyone else is like you too. Income-wise, house-wise, family-wise, etc. And if they're not the same, it's because they are somehow basically different, in a way that you can't be.

Add to this the increasing trend toward private-school education among the middle class, and you have a recipe for an insulated, oblivious, rigidly-stratiated, privilege-driven have-and-have-not society. I read some of the cultural-trend articles in the Atlantic Monthly lately, and it's like they're being written for the denizens of another planet -- one with no relation whatever to any world I've ever known.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

History repeats itself. Let's hope it doesn't, but brace for it.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Oh yeah, "stuff" eats up a lot of money.

Yes, that too. But I think what I really meant was that people seem to spend more than half their time incessantly texting and chatting on the phone and that they could probably save a fair amount of money by cutting down on the unneccesary chatter.

 

[Gregg Axley]

I'll text you my thoughts on that.
You mean those I see recently, who's thumbs are unusually large?
Oh yeah, I work with people like that.
But this isn't new. Mae Busch was asked what became of her money.
Her reply? The dollars slipped through my fingers like sand and went to pay for automobiles, houses and one great item - clothing.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Many people like myself use our smart phones as a means to communicate with customers so we aren't tethered to our desks. I also use it to bid on ebay items when I'm not home. Some people don't have landlines and save money by having wireless only. I think it can be a good investment. I'm not talking about the social merits of in-person communication versus texting. I'm staying on topic of an economic depression and saving money.

 

[kamikat]

One thing we've done in the past year was find heating and cooling leaks in the house. It saves you quite a bit replacing storm windows, adding insulation, thermal drapes, etc. Stuff may eat up money, but finding where the "bleeding" is and stopping it helps out a lot.

Tell me about it! Last summer, our attic fan broke and we had a guy come out to replace it. We had never been up in the attic before. The guy discovered that we had NO insulation up there. We've been saving our pennies to have it installed (2 estimates both over $5,000) as soon as the heat breaks. We hope this will make a big difference in our heating/cooling bills.

 

[Puzzicato]

Actually, no. I live in Eastern North Carolina...hardly affluent...in fact, probably better described as "dirt poor". Again, I'm confused. Living where I do and doing what I do, I'm inclined to think I should see stark evidence of the hard times I'm hearing about. But I really don't. Things appear to be about the same as they were several years ago.

Come to think of it, maybe we were just poor then, too.

AF

I work for a charity, and for the first 18 months of this financial crisis/depression/whatever we didn't really see an increase in client numbers. The clients we had couldn't get further down! Now we are starting to see the impact of people losing jobs & homes, and the government cutting welfare programs. Plus our income from both donations and investments is lower, as alot of companies aren't paying dividends at the moment. There has been a timelag, but we are really seeing the effects now.

On a personal level, my grocery bills are going up and up! And I am one of the people Kamikat mentioned who isn't going to the salon so often, and is having cheaper treatments.

 

[fortworthgal]

Jackie and I have a more than decent combined income. She's a critical care nurse at a large hospital and I'm an attorney. We have no children to support. We've no car payments, student loans payments, boat payments or credit card payments. Truthfully, we only have a modest house payment. Still, I often sit and wonder where our money goes each month. I see my friends and neighbors...who have children in college and other financial obligations...buy new cars, boats, houses and seemingly whatever they want...whenever they want it. I'm happy for them, but watch and puzzle how.

AF

We are in the same situation. We both make decent wages, no children, both vehicles paid off, and no unsecured debt - our only debt is our mortgage, which is 1/2 paid off. We live fairly frugally. We cook at home quite often, I coupon pretty extensively, we shop sales & thrift/yard sales, we try to keep our utilities lower by doing things like using a clothesline, etc., but still, I sometimes wonder where it all goes, and how people can possibly manage on a lower income, but with more expenses and adding children into the mix. Credit cards/debt is the answer, I guess.

I have a coworker who is a single income family, 2 children who play every sport and activity known to man, and every weekend is an out of town trip and designer goods. Did I mention they had their cars nearly paid off, and went and bought 2 more (one of which is a very high-end luxury vehicle?) Yet all the while borrowing money for basic needs such as gas and doctor visits from their parents. There have been times this coworker has called in to work because she cannot afford the gas to get here & back. Another coworker took a hardship out of his retirement to take his kid to Disney for a week. I'm not making that up! I hear people complaining that they cannot pay a basic utility bill, or have no meat in their house - yet the next breath is talk of purchasing an expensive handbag or must-have electronic gadget, or going on a trip. I don't understand the priorities.

The entitlement and irresponsibility I see in the world today floors me. I just can't get down with the "I deserve" mentality. People are going to have a rude awakening.

 

[MikePotts]

Hard to say more than "I'm with you fortworthgirl" without turning this into a rant.

 

[fortworthgal]

my main concern, and something i mentioned in the general decline thread, is that folks today simply don't have the necessary skills to make do. I don't think we would have people running amok, but i could certainly see crime and starvation increasing.

I i'm not insinuating there's going to be some crazy global nightmare (knock on wood), but living simply may be too complicated for some of the modern day softies.

ita 150%.

 

[Warden]

Going to back to the original question, I hope a depression is not on the cards, but with things been so hard for the past 3 years and there is still no end in sight.

Indeed with the US AAA rating in danger, the Spanish / Italian economies potentially pulling the Euro apart and all the various austerity measures around the world, it looks like these hard times still have a long time to run.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I see a lot of people living beyond their means and buying on credit. Similar to contributing factors to the Great Depression.

I was raised by penny-pinchers and have that mentality. I buy most everything used, except for things I can't. I have three cars I paid cash for, paid ahead on my rent, and paid up on all my bills. I also have a couple thousand dollars put away for a rainy day.

Make do with what you have and if you can't afford something, you don't need it. The only thing you really need to borrow for is a house, understandable that you cannot pay for a house in one lump sum. A brand new car isn't a necessity, a top of the line appliance isn't a necessity. I think our current situation is going to make people realize that.

 

[Oldsarge]

Another Great Depression is highly unlikely. However, the continuance of this miserable recession is almost assured. The reasons are complex but have mostly to do with nearly all families are now double income and losing one job is hard, very hard, but not the catastrophe it was in '29 when only men worked outside the home. So circumstances are heavily reduced but true penury is rare.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Another Great Depression is highly unlikely. However, the continuance of this miserable recession is almost assured. The reasons are complex but have mostly to do with nearly all families are now double income and losing one job is hard, very hard, but not the catastrophe it was in '29 when only men worked outside the home. So circumstances are heavily reduced but true penury is rare.

But back then, if I'm not mistaken, the middle class household could be supported with one working parent whereas now it's nearly impossible to afford to raise a family on one salary unless it's a generous one.

 

[SGT Rocket]

I've been laid off from a civilian job since 2007. Thanks to the Natl Guard, I've had some work including deployment to Iraq. I'm going back to school in the fall for nursing where the job opportunities are better.

To me the only difference between a recession and depression is a recession is when your neighbor is out of work, a depression is when you are out of work.

We've been trying to live only on cash (no CC) for quite some time now. So I think we are living within our means. However there was a time when both my wife and I were out of work and we had to put some necessities on CCs. All that said, we are breaking even with my wife working and able to make our mortgage and minimum payments on the cards.

I've got a ton more to say, but the kids are driving me batty and I've got to take them out side before they destroy the house.

 

[sheeplady]

I do think that too many people are dependent still upon their parents (parents who are savers)- like the example fortworthgal mentioned. Once those people are gone, I think the younger generations that are dependent on them are in for a very rude awakening. And I have to admit, this lending of money by parents and grandparents is enabling this type of behavior, and will actually hurt their children/grandchildren more than it helps them. It's not just the younger generations faults'- the elder generations need to learn the words "no, i am not an ATM/ cash machine."

Honestly, I think some of the complaining has to do with the fact that it is in vogue to "be poor." In other words, some people will complain about not meeting the necessicities, because it is "in" to complain about these things. Not everyone who complains is like this (obviously) because there is real poverty out there and some people have tragically been hit very hard too. I am speaking about some of the people who have been given as examples in this thread, who complain about expenses but live relatively lavishly.

Essentially, you've got a bunch of people who have caught on that they can win at the "I've got it tougher than you" game and get a bunch of sympathy but they don't actually want to have it tough. So they complain to be stylish and beat out their neighbors in the "complaining wars." But they don't actually want to live the cut-back lifestyle (and they'll do anything to prevent it), so they spend and spend to prevent themselves from actually living the lifestyle that people on lower incomes live. They want to be able to have everyone feel sorry for them and have the "new glamor" in not having money, but still get the treats, simply because "they're not like poor people."

Which for people who actually are struggling, is kind of like a slap in the face. Not having money to meet your basic needs is not glamorous at all. Not being able to find work is not glamorous.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Which for people who actually are struggling, is kind of like a slap in the face. Not having money to meet your basic needs is not glamourous at all.

Exactly. When you're poor, you know what it is to survive on crackers and milk, and feel lucky to have that much. You know what it is to have to decide whether to buy food or pay the oil bill because you can't afford both. There's nothing trendy or hip or exciting about that.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Exactly. When you're poor, you know what it is to survive on crackers and milk, and feel lucky to have that much. You know what it is to have to decide whether to buy food or pay the oil bill because you can't afford both. There's nothing trendy or hip or exciting about that.

Interesting, because recently on the etsy.com blog they featured a "Hobo Chic" wedding that cost $15k, I believe.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I'm watching the Dow take a tumble right now and I just feel uneasy in general about the state of the world economy despite being smart with my money.