Do you think there could be a second Great Depression?

[LizzieMaine]

Internet forums (such as this) are on a legal frontier. At least in the US, there is thought that forums are subject to the guarantees provided by the 1st Amendment. This is because, though forums are generally privately owned, the government regulates internet bandwidth and such. Extending this logic, one could argue that political posts…even rants such as the ones described here…are protected speech, at least to some degree.

Interestingly, there's a part of the Internet where exactly that view dominates -- where people say whatever they feel like saying, whenever they feel like saying it, and damn the consequences and damn any attempt at moderation. It's called Usenet -- and all the civilized, intelligent people left it a long time ago because people there say whatever they feel like saying, whenever they feel like saying it and damn the consequences and damn any attempt at moderation.

 

[Flicka]

The government regulates bandwidth? Really? I know very little about internet free speech rules, but I do know broadband providers and at least in Europe they are under no obligation to provide bandwidth for rants, government-owned companies or not. I highly doubt the US government controls the bandwidth or internet/broadband providers either. It'd put the whole network neutrality debate in a new light if that was the case.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Yes, Long received kickbacks from the very secret police force that I mentioned.

Many people believe that Huey Long was killed by his “secret police” body guards. Long, and his entourage, encountered Long’s would be assassin, Dr. Carl Weiss, in a hallway of the Louisiana State Capitol. Weiss pulled a pistol and all hell broke loose. In their effort to kill Weiss, Long’s bodyguards may have accidently killed Long. Sorta adds a whole new meaning to the term "kickback".

AF

 

[ButteMT61]

I rue the day the gub'ment can tell a forum owner/mod what's acceptable, with exceptions for things we hold true today in regards limits on free speech.
I do not hold the attitude nor belief (right or wrong) that freedom of speech means I can dictate what's OK on someone's else's dime. I point that out every time some joker screams "1st amendment" when they get deleted online. I then invite them to start their own forum and say what they like.

 

[jamespowers]

Many people believe that Huey Long was killed by his “secret police” body guards. Long, and his entourage, encountered Long’s would be assassin, Dr. Carl Weiss, in a hallway of the Louisiana State Capitol. Weiss pulled a pistol and all hell broke loose. In their effort to kill Weiss, Long’s bodyguards may have accidently killed Long. Sorta adds a whole new meaning to the term "kickback".

AF

That is true and there are still holes in the walls to show that bullets came from everywhere that day. It didn't help that Weiss was an in-law to a political rival of Long's though. They hung everything on him. Modern forensics was far into the future so we will never know for sure who killed Long.

 

[jamespowers]

I do not hold the attitude nor belief (right or wrong) that freedom of speech means I can dictate what's OK on someone's else's dime. I point that out every time some joker screams "1st amendment" when they get deleted online. I then invite them to start their own forum and say what they like.

Exactly!

 

[ButteMT61]

Exactly!

The temps must be perfect if we're agreeing powers!

 

[jamespowers]

The temps must be perfect if we're agreeing powers!

It could be warmer.

 

[Atticus Finch]

The government regulates bandwidth? Really? I know very little about internet free speech rules, but I do know broadband providers and at least in Europe they are under no obligation to provide bandwidth for rants, government-owned companies or not. I highly doubt the US government controls the bandwidth or internet/broadband providers either. It'd put the whole network neutrality debate in a new light if that was the case.

The U S Constitution’s 1st Amendment prohibits the suppression of protected speech by the government…which includes entities acting on behalf of the government. What is "the government" and what kinds of speech are protected are the primary issues in most 1st Amendment case law. “Bandwidth” may not be a proper term. I know much less about the technical aspects of the internet than I do about the 1st Amendment. But the ways and to what degree the government is involved in maintaining and/or regulating the internet would be factors in a Court’s analysis.

AF

 

[jamespowers]

to what degree the government is involved in maintaining and/or regulating the internet would be factors in a Court’s analysis.

AF

And that should be none, zero.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Many people believe that Huey Long was killed by his “secret police” body guards. Long, and his entourage, encountered Long’s would be assassin, Dr. Carl Weiss, in a hallway of the Louisiana State Capitol. Weiss pulled a pistol and all hell broke loose. In their effort to kill Weiss, Long’s bodyguards may have accidently killed Long. Sorta adds a whole new meaning to the term "kickback".

AF

Reminds me of one of the JFK Assassination theories that purports that JFK was actually killed when one of the Secret Service agent's AR-15s accidentally discharged.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Any chance we can bring this thread back to discussing the economy?

 

[ButteMT61]

Any chance we can bring this thread back to discussing the economy?

A pretty tough topic to not bring in politics. Maybe it reached it's natural end.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

A pretty tough topic to not bring in politics. Maybe it reached it's natural end.

But it's been politics-free for years since I first started it...until now. The economy is fluid and new developments are happening. Why does it have to be politics or end it? I hope to keep this open......

 

[ButteMT61]

But it's been politics-free for years since I first started it...until now. The economy is fluid and new developments are happening. Why does it have to be politics or end it? I hope to keep this open......

Doesn't have to be, I just suggested maybe it ran it's course...By all means, continue. What's new? Gas went up in record fashion here today. Worst single-day rise since 2008. Oops.

 

[jamespowers]

Looking at this kind of objectively, anything is possible but there are several outcomes possible.
Certain policies can make it much worse and others can ease some of the pain we are in now. Right now, there are companies and investors sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happens. Both of these entities abhor uncertainty and there is plenty coming one way or another in January.
The tax situation, the price of oil/gas, the strength of the dollar, inflation and a host of other things are figured into this. The housing market seems to be settling but if you dump all the bank owned properties on the market today you would cause a collapse of the real estate market. There is too much inventory sitting around still. Banks don't want to take a bath on prices so they hold them. They end up taking a bath either way as these properties cost money in upkeep. That ends up coming down to us in the form of higher bank fees and interest rates. The Fed may think they can keep the rates down for ten years but let something drastic change and it is Katie bar the door.
There is so much to worry about that people are being cautious spending fifty cents much less fifty thousand. The unemployment rate isn't going anywhere with people unwilling to spend money, companies unwilling to hire new people when there is no demand and, in a circular sense, less workers means less tax revenue to run the government, less consumer spending and no further increase in jobs. This circle needs to be reinvigorated. Is it possible for a second depression if something doesn't change? Well yes.
Just as in the depression, people have enough saved for only so long. After that runs out it gets dire. Unemployment benefits run out---more dire. People won't starve in the streets and there won't be soup kitchens but people will be down and it could get pretty bad......

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Looking at this kind of objectively, anything is possible but there are several outcomes possible.
Certain policies can make it much worse and others can ease some of the pain we are in now. Right now, there are companies and investors sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happens. Both of these entities abhor uncertainty and there is plenty coming one way or another in January.
The tax situation, the price of oil/gas, the strength of the dollar, inflation and a host of other things are figured into this. The housing market seems to be settling but if you dump all the bank owned properties on the market today you would cause a collapse of the real estate market. There is too much inventory sitting around still. Banks don't want to take a bath on prices so they hold them. They end up taking a bath either way as these properties cost money in upkeep. That ends up coming down to us in the form of higher bank fees and interest rates. The Fed may think they can keep the rates down for ten years but let something drastic change and it is Katie bar the door.
There is so much to worry about that people are being cautious spending fifty cents much less fifty thousand. The unemployment rate isn't going anywhere with people unwilling to spend money, companies unwilling to hire new people when there is no demand and, in a circular sense, less workers means less tax revenue to run the government, less consumer spending and no further increase in jobs. This circle needs to be reinvigorated. Is it possible for a second depression if something doesn't change? Well yes.
Just as in the depression, people have enough saved for only so long. After that runs out it gets dire. Unemployment benefits run out---more dire. People won't starve in the streets and there won't be soup kitchens but people will be down and it could get pretty bad......

I worry about mass chaos and violence if it gets that bad...

 

[sheeplady]

A pretty tough topic to not bring in politics. Maybe it reached it's natural end.

I'm pretty sure that politics is only part of it. In fact, I'd say it's a small part of it. As much as we like to blame the politicians for our woes (and believe me, I do my fair share of it) we are the ones who elect them. And who we elect is positioned in larger society that got us into this mess in the first place. And sadly, we'd rather fight over politics rather than ask ourselves hard questions like "do we need an economy based upon growth to be successful?" "How do we challenge consumerism?" To me, addressing those questions is far more important than who we elect.

 

[vitanola]

Doesn't have to be, I just suggested maybe it ran it's course...By all means, continue. What's new? Gas went up in record fashion here today. Worst single-day rise since 2008. Oops.

Well, the sanctions against Iran appear to have taken hold with a vengance. The country is undergoing a currency collapse, the Rial having lost 40% of its value in the last two days. Iranians have taken to the streets, and revolution is once again in the air. Whilst this scenario is not as frightening as the one involving an Israeli attack on Iran, and the possible closure of the Straits of Hormuz, the unrest in Persia reminds all of us just how tenuous is the West's oil supply. One might suspect that the traders are perhaps over-reacting, but we won't really know for some time.

 

[jamespowers]

I worry about mass chaos and violence if it gets that bad...

There are still police forces and the national guard. I doubt it will get that bad.
If it does then I am glad I stocked up on arms and ammunition a while back.