Do you think there could be a second Great Depression?

[Gregg Axley]

To try and steer us back on track...
Yes I believe there could be a second Great Depression, based on the "global" economy problems.
We're so interconnected now, that as more countries fall economically, it brings the US closer to that point as well.
I'm political, and have been since I was a kid, but this isn't the place for it, since politics are banned anyway.
In EVERY election, one cantidate can take us one direction, the other one in a different direction entirely.
Who's got the right idea this time? Who do the citizens of the US believe in more? We'll know in a month.
After that, we'll know within a year which political "pundits" were right, and which ones were way off.
I don't get into fear mongering, I get into preparedness.
And based on what I said about the global economy, my wife and I are preparing by saving extra this and that, by making sure we pay off as many bills as possible (we only have 1 large bill now), and by praying that the decisions we make now, will be the right ones should this whole country come unraveled in the near future.

 

[sheeplady]

In this age of whey-faced futures traders, mortgage brokers, marketing analysts, Gender Studies majors, and singer-songwriters, how many people are out there who could actually butcher a steer if they had to? How many could even kindle a fire if they couldn't find a match?

I don't think there are many people who have ever slaughtered and butchered an animal (except for those working in the food industry or hunters). I honestly don't think that's a skill many people have today, regardless of job type.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I can think of fifteen or twenty people I know who could do it just off the top of my head, but I live in an area where "didja git ya deer yet?" is still a common saying in the fall. But you're quite right, most people wouldn't have the slightest idea. And they'd get pretty hungry once the Spam ran out.

You could say the same thing about vegetable food sources. How many urbanites who buy their salads in a plastic bag would be able to raise enough of a crop to live on if they had to? How many would know how to find wild plants they could safely subsist on? Once all the canned goods ran out, how many people in a post-collapse world would simply starve to death because they don't know how to actually feed themselves outside of the confines of our cellophane-wrapped civilization?

The occupations I mentioned were just examples of how narrowly and dangerously specialized modern civilization has become. If a crash came -- a real, chaotic, global crash -- of what use or value would a mortgage broker or a theoretician of gender be? How could such a person hope to survive without the kind of hands-on practical skills they'd need if they couldn't just go down to Trader Joes when they were hungry? We've created a society of people as specialized and narrowly-bred as show dogs -- what does that mean for society's ability to survive a violent social upheaval?

 

[jamespowers]

Actually the Chinese appear to be buying Iranian oil with precious metals, which are, as you note, not making it into the country's reserves.

This quotes a Chinese diplomat who says they bought it with the Yuan:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17988142
They buy 20-30 billion every year! Then consider they want the yuan to rival the dollar and we have problems.
Add to that this problem and we have more going on:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-s-oil-as-u-s-and-eu-intensify-sanctions.html
A 40 ship fleet can deliver a lot of oil.

 

[jamespowers]

how many people are out there who could actually butcher a steer if they had to? How many could even kindle a fire if they couldn't find a match?

I could handle the steer and a 9 volt battery and some steel wool will get a fire going fairly easily.

 

[kiwilrdg]

In this age of whey-faced futures traders, mortgage brokers, marketing analysts, Gender Studies majors, and singer-songwriters, how many people are out there who could actually butcher a steer if they had to? How many could even kindle a fire if they couldn't find a match?

I think the idea of butchering a steer as the first source of food might be part of the problem. It is much easier to subsistence farm or gather food with vegetables as the main food with fruit and meat to supplement the food. The real awakening would be that people would need to eat what they had rather than what they want.

Butchering is pretty easy. The tricky part is to find a way to preserve the rest of the animal after you eat the first couple of pounds. getting enough canning jars, salts, smoking wood, etc. would be the hardest part. Even if a freezer is available it takes a lot of paper to wrap the meat.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Another problem with people today is that they're so literal minded. "Butchering a steer" is simply an example of one skill that would be far more useful in a hypothetical world-after-collapse than amortizing a loan. Let's rephrase the question, then. How many Executive Vice Presidents could rebuild a roof using only hand tools? How many Corporate Design Consultants could locate, dig, and maintain a latrine? How many English Lit majors could deliver a baby?

The point isn't whether Joseph H. Blow, Esq. can or can't do any one specific task -- it's whether today's ultra-specialized, luxury-accustomed society could survive in a world without the luxuries? We've had people around here say things like "why should I learn to sew on a button when I can hire someone else to do it?" Well, *what if the time comes when it's everyone for themselves?* What if the time comes when your money is worthless, and the people you'd hire to do all those little jobs you couldn't be bothered with aren't the least bit interested in your problems anymore because they're too busy surviving for themselves? How many people -- and what kind of people -- would survive under those conditions?

Sure, you could say a "barter economy" would develop under such circumstances. But what would a stock trader have to offer a carpenter in a world where stocks, and knowledge of stocks, were worthless?

 

[kiwilrdg]

A lot of the skills are learned but not the related skills to make them useful.

It only takes a few minutes to teach someone to wring a chickens neck and to pluck and clean the bird.
Teaching someone to use one bird to feed four people for three or more meals takes years of training and practice.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Indeed. And in a world where chicken increasingly comes in Handy Microwaveable Single-Serving Dinners, how many people today actually know how to do that? How many non-farm Americans under 40 have ever cut up and sectioned a whole chicken?

Point being, the more specialized and more luxury-oriented we get as a society, the less likely we are to be able to survive a real, catastrophic economic collapse. Survival of the fittest will kick in, and a lot of people will be unpleasantly surprised at where they end up: one of the first luxuries to be discarded will be tolerance for those who can't pull their weight.

 

[Atticus Finch]

I don't think there are many people who have ever slaughtered and butchered an animal (except for those working in the food industry or hunters). I honestly don't think that's a skill many people have today, regardless of job type.

It probably depends on where you live. Around here, slaughtering and cooking large animals are not forgotten skills. Even our overweight desk sitters get their hands dirty from time to time.

AF

 

[Flicka]

I can grow potatoes and can certainly prepare a rabbit, cook over fire, build a shed and make pottery. I also uaually don't do that on a daily basis, but that doesn't mean I haven't done it and couldn't do it again.

I don't think it's the Zombie Apocalypse we need to worry about though. I think it's more that we need to eat less meat and imported/transported food, use less oil and generally consume less. Not having matches seem a few steps further away. But how many of you could live carless if gas prices rocketed? That's a far more realistic question I think.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You're chopping at the very root of modern society there. How many people will do any of those things of their own free will? Probably there's a greater proportion of us on the Lounge than there are in society at large -- but how many people other than us would voluntarily scale back their consumption to, say, 1930s/1940s levels? And what would happen to society if suddenly they were forced to do so?

 

[AmateisGal]

A la Season 2 of "The Walking Dead"?

lol No idea. I have never watched that show. But he has lots of shotguns. Do those fend off the typical zombie?

 

[AmateisGal]

I still remember the times my mom and I headed over to my grandparents' farm (our farm was only a few miles away from theirs') to butcher chickens. I don't remember ever wielding the ax myself, but my grandma didn't have any compunction about it.

I openly admit to growing softer since I left the farm and moved to the city. Luckily, my hubby knows how to do all the survivor stuff (thanks to specialized training in the army) and could get me through it. On my own? Not sure. Of course, you do what you have to do to survive.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

California Gas Stations Shut as Oil Refiners Ration Supplies

Gasoline station owners in the Los Angeles area including Costco Wholesale Corp. (COST) are beginning to shut pumps as the state’s oil refiners started rationing supplies and spot prices surged to a record...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...begin-to-shut-on-record-high-spot-prices.html

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Since most people don't have access to wild animals and not all can be hunted legally, I think it might be more like eating squirrels and bugs.

 

[ButteMT61]

I can fix, shoot, cook, clean, grow, raise and otherwise live just fine when the apocalypse comes. Now my wife - she's one of the toughest people I know, but she hates to even camp. So we're gonna have some challenges

 

[Paul Roerich]

lol No idea. I have never watched that show. But he has lots of shotguns. Do those fend off the typical zombie?

They do indeed, as long as you shoot the heads. Works for the walking living, too.

 

[sheeplady]

It probably depends on where you live. Around here, slaughtering and cooking large animals are not forgotten skills. Even our overweight desk sitters get their hands dirty from time to time.

AF

I grew up in the country- if you hadn't butchered a deer by 14, your parents were likely over protective. We also got the first day of hunting season off school, because without the meat, a lot of families would have starved.

Were I live now, however, (a very middle/ working class neighborhood) most people wouldn't even know how to kill an animal humanely, yet alone cut it up or preserve it without using a freezer or electricity.

 

[kiwilrdg]

Remember to let the herd and flock increase before you start culling. (N/A for steers, they will not help the herd to increase)

In WWII there was an attempt to use urban rabbit raising as a way to get meat. There was a great reluctance to eat the rabbits when they became pets.