Do any of you guys follow any type of hat etiquette?

[DJH]

Yes, I do follow traditional hat etiquette. Mine may not be perfect 100% of the time, but I do give it my best!

Tom, you've hit on just why it is great to be able to wear cool hats today.

Because the rules are dead, we can do what we think is right. You can happily live by the traditional ways, others can wear their narrow brim hats hipster style and it is all good.

I can wear some rather formal hats with jeans or shorts and there is no one who can tell me off. I'm loving it!

By the way, although we usually post in different threads here, I read a lot of your posts and they are always very enjoyable.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Tom, you've hit on just why it is great to be able to wear cool hats today.

Because the rules are dead, we can do what we think is right. You can happily live by the traditional ways, others can wear their narrow brim hats hipster style and it is all good.

I can wear some rather formal hats with jeans or shorts and there is no one who can tell me off. I'm loving it!

By the way, although we usually post in different threads here, I read a lot of your posts and they are always very enjoyable.

Compromise?? *grumble* *grumble*...

As you can see this is one of my hot buttons. I nearly threw my brother in law out of my house last Thanksgiving because of the way he was dressed.

 

[DamianM]

The rules have not died, they are just ignored because "no one cares anymore".
And if thats the way it goes then why bother wearing a hat if you don't know how to use a hat. If its just for fashion it becomes useless.
like a stingy brim hat that offers no protection. Ironically hat wearing hipsters are another story. To the gallows with them I say.


I as well try my best. I take it off while indoors or while dining, I mean why do I need the hat indoors when there is no sun?

 

[AtomicEraTom]

First off, I'm glad you enjoy my posts, as I also enjoy yours when I'm visiting the hats area of The Lounge.

Good example of compromising my own rules was today. I got home from work and sat there with my hat on for a good half hour before I took it off, because I wear a brain bucket all day, and it's hot at work. Needless to say, nobody wants to see that hair lol

The only rule I think there is no wiggle room on is that if a man is in a church, he'd better take his hat off. Everything else is open to interpretation, in my opinion.

Tom, you've hit on just why it is great to be able to wear cool hats today.

Because the rules are dead, we can do what we think is right. You can happily live by the traditional ways, others can wear their narrow brim hats hipster style and it is all good.

I can wear some rather formal hats with jeans or shorts and there is no one who can tell me off. I'm loving it!

By the way, although we usually post in different threads here, I read a lot of your posts and they are always very enjoyable.

 

[HudsonHawk]

The rules have not died, they are just ignored because "no one cares anymore".
And if thats the way it goes then why bother wearing a hat if you don't know how to use a hat. If its just for fashion it becomes useless.
like a stingy brim hat that offers no protection. Ironically hat wearing hipsters are another story. To the gallows with them I say.


I as well try my best. I take it off while indoors or while dining, I mean why do I need the hat indoors when there is no sun?

Amen, Brother!!

 

[jlee562]

It depends on the woman. In my neighborhood, most assuredly they see it as being rude.

Considering that most men don't follow strict hat etiquette, I think this strains credulity. Regardless, my point is that etiquette is predicated on norms. When something is no longer the norm, by definition, it ceases to break the rules of etiquette.

You're comparing apples to chainsaws. There are places where those things are appropriate, but in places where they are not, the manners haven't changed simply because some of the younger generation have decided it took much time.

How so? All are acts of etiquette.

I could not disagree with you more on this, but obviously you have your levels of politeness, and I have mine.

I think it's a prima facie case that most of hat etiquette is no longer widely observed. If so, then everything I said applies whether or not any given individual agrees or disagrees. It is the sum total of a culture which decides what is or is not appropriate.

The rules have not died, they are just ignored because "no one cares anymore".

But there's the rub. If nobody follows the rule, it's not a rule.

 

[HudsonHawk]

First off, I'm glad you enjoy my posts, as I also enjoy yours when I'm visiting the hats area of The Lounge.

Good example of compromising my own rules was today. I got home from work and sat there with my hat on for a good half hour before I took it off, because I wear a brain bucket all day, and it's hot at work. Needless to say, nobody wants to see that hair lol

The only rule I think there is no wiggle room on is that if a man is in a church, he'd better take his hat off. Everything else is open to interpretation, in my opinion.

Why is church any different? If all the hipsters started wearing hats and flip flops and propping their feet on the pew in front of them, isn't that just the "new etiquette"?

 

[HudsonHawk]

Considering that most men don't follow strict hat etiquette, I think this strains credulity. Regardless, my point is that etiquette is predicated on norms. When something is no longer the norm, by definition, it ceases to break the rules of etiquette.

That doesn't mean it's not rude and tacky.

How so? All are acts of etiquette.

Because slurping has long been considered appropriate in those societies, but not in others. One cannot simply start slurping in a non-slurping society and say "oh well, that's how they do it in Bora Bora" and expect it to be accepted.

I think it's a prima facie case that most of hat etiquette is no longer widely observed.

That's the point of this whole discussion.

If so, then everything I said applies whether or not any given individual agrees or disagrees. It is the sum total of a culture which decides what is or is not appropriate.



But there's the rub. If nobody follows the rule, it's not a rule.

But some people do follow the rules. And just because most people aren't following the rules of good manners doesn't make them any less graceless.

 

[DJH]

Compromise?? *grumble* *grumble*...

As you can see this is one of my hot buttons. I nearly threw my brother in law out of my house last Thanksgiving because of the way he was dressed.

No, not compromise at all - people are free to dress just how they want. Having a nice suit doesn't make someone a good person.

You and Tom can live the traditional way, others can live the Hell's Angels or Hip Hop life - who am I to judge.

And if thats the way it goes then why bother wearing a hat if you don't know how to use a hat.

Do you run training courses for those that don't know how to wear their hats?

The only rule I think there is no wiggle room on is that if a man is in a church, he'd better take his hat off. Everything else is open to interpretation, in my opinion.

Agree 100% on the church thing, Tom. I always remove my hat for the anthem, too. Some traditions are not dead!

 

[DamianM]

"But there's the rub. If nobody follows the rule, it's not a rule."

That doesn't mean the rules changed, it means people have lost knowledge of such rules and some must be reminded.
It dose not mean you follow what everyone else thinks.

If you want to be a common chum, then be like them but never would I get a complain from anybody about knowing how to use my hats. On the contrary, I get praised.

 

[jlee562]

Why is church any different? If all the hipsters started wearing hats and flip flops and propping their feet on the pew in front of them, isn't that just the "new etiquette"?

If it is accepted by that Church without repercussion, then yes, it is the norm for that specific community.

An act, in and of itself, does not become accepted simply because it exists. It has to be integrated into the social structure.

"But there's the rub. If nobody follows the rule, it's not a rule."

That doesn't mean the rules changed, it means people have lost knowledge of such rules and some must be reminded.
It dose not mean you follow what everyone else thinks.

If you want to be a common chum, then be like them but never would I get a complain from anybody about knowing how to use my hats. On the contrary, I get praised.

No, it means that the rules have changed. If a "rule" no longer holds salience in society, it is not a rule.

Go ahead, try to "remind" people of hat etiquette. I wish you good luck on your quest sir, but I suspect your task is akin to that of Sisyphus.

 

[DamianM]

"Do you run training courses for those that don't know how to wear their hats?"

I'm 23, shouldn't you be teaching me something about being a gentleman?

 

[HamilcarBarca3]

Very interesting discussion, gentlemen! I didn't expect this when I made this thread, just mere curiosity on how you guys handles your covers.. My Grandfather, a man who still wears a hat and was born in the early 30s, wear his hat indoors. The only time he takes off his hat is when he's at church. So maybe it varied from person to person. In the military I was taught their hat etiquette and I still try to follow it, just the way I like it.

I think it's a little rude to wear a hat indoors but you gentlemen make very valid points. I doubt anyone is going to seriously care about anyone wears their hat indoors since the times when hat wearing was prevalent are long gone and are left to history. Good points all around, wear your hats with pride and do it earnestly.

 

[DamianM]

If it is accepted by that Church without repercussion, then yes, it is the norm for that specific community.

An act, in and of itself, does not become accepted simply because it exists. It has to be integrated into the social structure.



No, it means that the rules have changed. If a "rule" no longer holds salience in society, it is not a rule.

Go ahead, try to "remind" people of hat etiquette. I wish you good luck on your quest sir, but I suspect your task is akin to that of Sisyphus.

The lack of knowledge doesn't mean the rule is no longer valid.

And that is a fine example of the way the society is going.

Lost the art of dressing like a man and forgotten hat etiquette.
next thing is texting while dining with friends or with family......oh yeah I'm pretty sure thats a new rule too that is acceptable

 

[DJH]

"Do you run training courses for those that don't know how to wear their hats?"

I'm 23, shouldn't you be teaching me something about being a gentleman?

Nope, what you do is up to you - not my problem.

 

[jlee562]

That doesn't mean it's not rude and tacky.

To you, apparently not. The salient question is whether or not your view is representative of the public at large. I would argue you are in the minority. Therefore, everything I already wrote still applies.

Because slurping has long been considered appropriate in those societies, but not in others. One cannot simply start slurping in a non-slurping society and say "oh well, that's how they do it in Bora Bora" and expect it to be accepted.

Ok, well, this is not a cogent response as to why one piece of etiquette is an apple and another is a chainsaw.

It is not my position that one can slurp noodles in a non-slurping society and expect it to be accepted. However, if the majority of people started slurping their noodles, we can no longer say that they're a non-slurping society.

But some people do follow the rules. And just because most people aren't following the rules of good manners doesn't make them any less graceless.

Yes, it does. That's the entire point of the social construction of norms.

Look, I'm not saying that you have to like that there is no hat etiquette anymore. I'm not saying that you should change what you do with your hat to conform with the new norm. All I'm saying is that etiquette is constantly evolving, and will continue to evolve in the future.

But the fact that there is a new norm demonstrates that the old norms do not apply.

 

[DamianM]

Nope, what you do is up to you - not my problem.

free for all is your motto
You have nothing to pass on then.

 

[jlee562]

The lack of knowledge doesn't mean the rule is no longer valid.

If the rule is no longer followed, it's not a rule. Whether that comes from a lack of knowledge of said rules, or an explicit rejection of said rules, at such point when a majority of a society no longer accepts the rule as valid, it no longer breaks etiquette.

 

[DamianM]

To you, apparently not. The salient question is whether or not your view is representative of the public at large. I would argue you are in the minority. Therefore, everything I already wrote still applies.



Ok, well, this is not a cogent response as to why one piece of etiquette is an apple and another is a chainsaw.

It is not my position that one can slurp noodles in a non-slurping society and expect it to be accepted. However, if the majority of people started slurping their noodles, we can no longer say that they're a non-slurping society.



Yes, it does. That's the entire point of the social construction of norms.

Look, I'm not saying that you have to like that there is no hat etiquette anymore. I'm not saying that you should change what you do with your hat to conform with the new norm. All I'm saying is that etiquette is constantly evolving, and will continue to evolve in the future.

But the fact that there is a new norm demonstrates that the old norms do not apply.

You herd the college sociologist

Be a slob is the new motto.
So when in Rome do like the Romans do, even though these Romans dress like hobos.

The point is not to follow but to lead.

 

[jlee562]

You herd the college sociologist

Be a slob is the new motto.
So when in Rome do like the Romans do, even though these Romans dress like hobos.

Let's flip the script then.

Since I am arguing that rules and norms are socially constructed and inherently arbitrary, how do you propose that there is a universally objective definition of slob?