Do any of you guys follow any type of hat etiquette?

[suitedcboy]

I'm 55 and I do not in any way automatically take off my hat. I take it off when I feel it is appropriate. I do in most churches but I go to a cowboy church and hats are worn there except during prayer and a few other cases (come on in, you can wear your fedora in the church too).
If I have been wearing a hat all day, for that matter if YOU have been wearing a hat all day, I do not want to see your smashed hair and obvious hat ring. I don't want to see your sock ring on your legs, nor your waistband ring from your boxers or briefs either.
If I go into a farmer and rancher filled diner it stays on. If I go to a more proper evening dining establishment it comes off usually.
Where I live these are pretty much the rules everyone abides by.
I wear western hats 95% of the time.

If I go to friends' homes I will take my hat off and hold it and most of the time the spouse will say, "put your hat on, you look odd with it off" or make some joking comment about hat hair. They know I mean no disrespect and I'm not keeping my hat on because their home is not welcoming and I do not intend to run out the door.

I think I have a fair amount of sensitivity and remove my hat when I think it should be removed. I do care about others' sensitivities.
I might not remove it because somebody told you you are supposed to be offended and you are offended only for that reason. If you walk into a building where someone will greet you and you are on a cell phone then why would I feel any obligation to remove cover.

I do admit my hat removal does change a good bit with a fedora but I still might wear it in a casual diner and some other places where others might remove their hat.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I'm afraid I will never understand how inconveniencing others is somehow simultaneously respectful.

I guess I just don't understand how my taking off my hat is a particularly inconvenience to someone.

As for sanitation, is that why hairnets and paper hats have disappeared from food service?

I'm not sure where you live, but where I do, they have not disappeared and are still a legal requirement.

 

[fashion frank]

I'm just speaking as a 26 year old. It's all goods if you older gentleman want to adhere to the guidelines. That's your prerogative. But It does not change the fact you're making yourselves stand out, not fit in. If it were still the way of things to follow etiquette to the letter I'd be right there, but I'm not doing anything but making myself stand out further than just wearing a brimmed hat in my age bracket already does. For example if I were not already in a relationship you can bet I would not be doffing my hat to any lady I was interested in. It wouldn't make me a gentleman it'd make me "The weird guy that just took his hat off at me" I follow what society dictates and society dictates they don't care what I do with my hat so I follow my own loose set of guidelines that fit into my personal life and lifestyle.

Boy I don't even know where to begin with this post!

The gist of the post that I copied here is that " anything goes " which is absurd and is the reason why we as a nation look like "The Great Unwashed" .

We have no manners anymore ,getting dressed today means wearing anything that I feel like wearing as long as I am comfortable in it , like pajamas and slippers being worn outside, pants worn down around your crotch, and it's mostly younger people who dress like that because unlike and I quote
"it's all good if you older gentleman want to adhere to the guidelines" , we do adhere to some sort of decorum and manners in society , but with young people today anything goes ?

I was at Disney on vacation a few weeks back and I could not get over the type of clothing being worn by young girls truly shame full, and they all have there faces in a phone screen to the point of bumping into other people because they were so self absorbed.

These same kids I speak of have been raised by clueless parents who themselves grew up in the 60's and also have no clue in terms of personal appearance and or lack of manners and social graces.

When I was a child we always were taught to leave the house looking
respectful and presentable should we be going somewhere of any importance like church over to someones house to dinner etc.

I just don't get this "when in Rome if the Romans look like bums ,then dress according to bums " ???

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[jlee562]

It's not that we have no manners anymore, it's that your conception of manners is no longer considered valid.

Cultural/societal rules and etiquette are norms based. Therefore when they cease to be the norm, that "rule" falls away. Hat etiquette is not the norm. The new norm says it's ok to wear your hat inside; that you don't have to doff your hat every time you see a woman; you don't have to take your hat off in an elevator, etc, etc, etc.

 

[HudsonHawk]

It's not that we have no manners anymore, it's that your conception of manners is no longer considered valid.

Cultural/societal rules and etiquette are norms based. Therefore when they cease to be the norm, that "rule" falls away. Hat etiquette is not the norm. The new norm says it's ok to wear your hat inside; that you don't have to doff your hat every time you see a woman; you don't have to take your hat off in an elevator, etc, etc, etc.

This...this right here is the problem.

 

[jlee562]

This...this right here is the problem.

If you find it to be a problem, than it is problematic for you.

As a social scientist, I find no reason to believe that the decline of hat etiquette poses any sort of "problem" within society at large.

Social mores always change and evolve.

 

[HudsonHawk]

If you find it to be a problem, than it is problematic for you.

As a social scientist, I find no reason to believe that the decline of hat etiquette poses any sort of "problem" within society at large.

Social mores always change and evolve.

It's problematic for anyone who doesn't think a free-for-all at the dinner table is something to embrace. If that's not you, so be it. I don't find "everyone is doing it nowadays" to be any sort of standard.

 

[Anthony Jordan]

+1...if none is available, I'll ask for an extra napkin, open it on the floor under my chair & place my hat on top of it.

A good idea which I must remember. I tend to balance my hat on my lap in such situations.

 

[jlee562]

It's problematic for anyone who doesn't think a free-for-all at the dinner table is something to embrace. If that's not you, so be it. I don't find "everyone is doing it nowadays" to be any sort of standard.

If you understand it as a "free for all," than you're misunderstanding what is being said.

The argument is not so much that "everyone is doing it," and more that social mores have changed.

Let me take a specific example. Traditional hat etiquette says that one should doff their hat in an elevator if a woman should step in. During the days where hat etiquette was still held among the general population, not doing so was considered a sign of rudeness.

Today, if a woman stepped into an elevator with a hat wearing man who did not doff his hat, would our hypothetical woman consider such an action to be rude? Most assuredly not. Therefore if she does not perceive the action as rude, it is not rude. Cultural/social rules and etiquette is norms based, and a social construction. Actions are only actions, we give them meaning.

Another example? Slurping noodles (such as in soup or spaghetti) is considered by many this country to be bad form or a lack of table manners. But if you go to most countries in Asia, it is de rigueur. In this country, if you put your index finger to your thumb and splay the rest of your hand out, it's the symbol for "okay!" In other countries, it's the equivalent of giving someone the middle finger in this country.

The actions don't change, the meaning that societies ascribe to them does.

The vast majority of hat etiquette no longer holds for a majority of Americans. About the only things I can think of is hats off in Church, during the National Anthem, and upscale dining establishments. These are salient rules which would still cause some minor offense among most Americans. Most Americans however, do not perceive it to be rude if one doesn't doff his hat at a woman, or remove it the moment he steps indoors. And as they do not, the action can no longer be considered rude.

 

[suitedcboy]

There are levels of social disarray. Food fights and not taking a hat off when one passes through a threshold are many levels apart

I wear hats and do want hats to stay around. I think assigning too many rules is contrary to that. I can't make an argument for all the hat "etiquette" if someone were to ask me other than "just because" and "it is the way they always did it". I don't accept that as an explanation for much of anything. If your affinity for hats is to harken back to earlier times then the etiquette for those times is part of your experience you long for. I wear a hat because it covers my head and I always liked them. I was a wee one when they were still worn by most men (and women too). I didn't like the cigarette smoking and high rate of fatality car wrecks and other things from that era. I'll keep the hats and discard those others as part of my experience.

It is normal and usual for the generations behind us to change things and for that to be discussed as being the end of life on this planet. I doubt that is changing any time soon.

I know this all too well. I have a spouse a generation behind me and I am regularly finding myself dismayed at something not being done "the way it has always been done". I find about 99% of the time that my explanation of why falls apart really quick and soon we laugh. I also find myself learning a lot when I let go and pay attention to a different way it can be done.
It's odd. I try to learn a better way to do things every day but another facet of me digs in the heels and resists changing something and thinking it can be done no other way.

 

[Dick Ireland]

I follow the "old rules" to best of my knowledge (gleaned from my mother, old movies, and the Internet; I'm under 30).

It's popular to throw out all the rules today, but from where I sit it doesn't look to be leading us anywhere good.

Besides, I admire my forebearers and keeping at least part of their code keeps me in touch with them.

 

[Orangegrad]

Well written, Jared.

 

[DJH]

Well written, Jared.

+1. Saves me a lot of tap tap typing on my phone.

I just enjoy wearing my hats and the people who came up with the rules are long gone anyway.

 

[bowlerman]

+2

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

[alanfgag]

I just enjoy wearing my hats and the people who came up with the rules are long gone anyway.

The scenario that brought about rules is long gone as well.

 

[Dan Allen]

I also agree with Jared, Manners and mores are signs of respect for those around us. While they can be different in different societies the respect remains the same. We are a society of cultures far more than was possible in the past. A tip of the hat to anyone of any culture should be accepted as a symbol of respect just as I would them toward myself. My concern is the general decline in respect for some groups now days towards anyone outside their immediate group. I ran into an Oriental gentleman months ago and I raised my hand to my hat and nodded while he smiled and bowed. I am pretty sure we both did the same thing.

 

[Denton]

In an earlier thread on this topic, the Fedora Lounge member Woodfluter brought up the fascinating example of the 17th-century Quakers, who, on principle, covered their heads in situations where they were expected to remove their hats. This seemingly minor incivility sometimes led to physical confrontations. In his autobiography, George Fox, a founding member of the Quaker sect, recalls that men used to knock him down in their efforts to get him to take off his hat.

What interests me about this example is that both sides, the Quakers and the non-Quakers, are committed to a deeper principle than polite behavior. George Fox and his followers know they are being impolite when they cover their heads, but they do so anyway, for spiritual reasons. The men who attack Fox and knock him down presumably know they are being extraordinarily impolite (is there anything more impolite than correcting someone's behavior?), but they do so anyway because they think uncovering the head is important.

Our disagreement is different. Jared takes the position that shared expectations are the important thing. (I agree with him.) If no one expects you to remove your hat, and you want to wear your hat, then there is no good reason to remove your hat. HudsonHawk takes the deeply conservative position that old ways are valuable because they are old ways. Harry Garrison once said: "I have seen many changes in this lifetime, and I have not liked ANY of them."

However, no one here is taking the ontological position of the early Quakers and their enemies -- that there is an inherent rightness or wrongness in covering or uncovering your head.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Let me take a specific example. Traditional hat etiquette says that one should doff their hat in an elevator if a woman should step in. During the days where hat etiquette was still held among the general population, not doing so was considered a sign of rudeness.

Today, if a woman stepped into an elevator with a hat wearing man who did not doff his hat, would our hypothetical woman consider such an action to be rude? Most assuredly not.

It depends on the woman. In my neighborhood, most assuredly they see it as being rude.

Another example? Slurping noodles (such as in soup or spaghetti) is considered by many this country to be bad form or a lack of table manners. But if you go to most countries in Asia, it is de rigueur. In this country, if you put your index finger to your thumb and splay the rest of your hand out, it's the symbol for "okay!" In other countries, it's the equivalent of giving someone the middle finger in this country.

You're comparing apples to chainsaws. There are places where those things are appropriate, but in places where they are not, the manners haven't changed simply because some of the younger generation have decided it took much time.

The vast majority of hat etiquette no longer holds for a majority of Americans....And as such can no longer be considered rude.

I could not disagree with you more on this, but obviously you have your levels of politeness, and I have mine.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Yes, I do follow traditional hat etiquette. Mine may not be perfect 100% of the time, but I do give it my best!

 

[highway66blues]

WoW !!!
There are Many valid points on both sides.....sides?
I agree with some of each but,

I do and follow what I do because it is both what I was taught and what I learned (often,the hard way).
Flag passes, it comes off. Star Spangled Banner plays, it comes off. I go in-doors (anywhere), it comes off.
Can't speak much a'tall about elevators (which,to me, are in-doors). I'm a small town country boy livin' in a small rural Western Pennsylvania town...ain't many elevators here abouts...infact..there ain't ANY

What I do, is coz that's what I was taught.
Do I like what I see goin' on out around me in other places (and there's lots of 'em = see prev. 5 pages of posts) ?
Hell No, I DO NOT.
So I can only mind what I do.

I'm the only one responsible for that.