Did the Rules of Etiquette Provide a Greater Sense of Safety For Women?

[totallyfrozen]

...few people...care anymore.

I think it's surprising just how far we've gone from that culture.
Years ago, we bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The only way to unlock the doors on this one is by using the key in the driver's door, then opening the door and hitting the door lock switch. Prior to this, we had a car with key holes on both sides. I used to open the door for my wife every time. When we got the jeep (and I still fuss about this on occasion) I told her, "they're killing chivalry and etiquette. I can't open the door for you anymore even though I want to." My wife is a gentle woman but she's no nonsense too. So she doesn't bother to wait. By the time I go to the drivers side and unlock the door, she just lets herself in rather than wait for me to walk back around. She's just too humble for that. Makes me think the engineers and designers working for Jeep in those days had no class at all.




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[3fingers]

^^^ Ah, but they saved the company $1.56 per unit by not putting a lock cylinder on the passenger side. As to the original question, All I have read indicates that there were just as many sorry individuals at the height of the manners and etiquette period as their are now. The reporting of these incidents and the fact that more women are not willing to suffer them in silence is the difference.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Most pre-WWII cars had a lock cylinder only on the passenger side. You were expected to lock the drivers' door on the inside, and then slide out of the car along the front seat, exiting from the passenger door onto the curb. Assuming that the man is driving and the woman is the passenger, the only way for The Hon. Gerald Gentleman to open Her Ladyship's door for her would be for him to open his door into traffic, sidle out along the side of the car, while Herself reached over to lock his door behind him. Then he'd open her door and allow her to alight upon the sidewalk. This was obviously unworkable, because Her Ladyship could easily spoil her manicure lifting up the interior door handle on the driver's side to engage the lock, even if she had cared to stretch herself across the seat in such a graceless, indelicate way in order to do so.

Even worse, to enter the car in a gentlemanly way, The Honorable would need to unlock the car and stretch into the front seat across to the drivers' door to unlatch the lock while Herself waited impatiently on the sidewalk where passing urchins might flick spitballs into the towering mass of her impressive coiffure and unworthy mongrels might mictutrate upon her delicate gossamer-clad ankles. Or he could let her her in first and then wait for her to reach across and unlatch the lock and hope she didn't make a grab for the keys instead and drive off with a triumphant Judy Canova-like war whoop, leaving poor Gerald in the dust.

 

[sheeplady]

That was a delightful read.

Eta: I don't think that women today feel all that less safe, its just that now we have a platform to express it and have more men actually paying attention. For instance, there is a certain amount of caution I exercise walking alone at night; my husband doesn't exercise that same amount of caution. I'm careful with who I engage with in public in certain settings. These are all common things I've heard expressed by many different generations of women, with the difference that more men are aware of these concerns now... because you can read about them and women (and men) are open to talking about it.

The difference today is rather than these things just being discussed in female social circles, it is being discussed openly and there's a lot of effort to try and change things on some fronts.

I used to have a lot of students from India. Street harassment is common and violent rapes are far far too common. I know a lot of women who won't go back... at all.

 

[Edward]

^^^ Ah, but they saved the company $1.56 per unit by not putting a lock cylinder on the passenger side. As to the original question, All I have read indicates that there were just as many sorry individuals at the height of the manners and etiquette period as their are now. The reporting of these incidents and the fact that more women are not willing to suffer them in silence is the difference.

My much bigger concern is that the more they electrify everything on a car, the more dependent you are on it all not breaking down. Manual windows fail far less commonly than powered ones....

 

[LizzieMaine]

And if you live in a northern climate, electric windows freeze up in the winter with depressing regularity, causing you to swear and pound the glass with your fist while in the drive-thru line at Dunkie's.

 

[Fading Fast]

My much bigger concern is that the more they electrify everything on a car, the more dependent you are on it all not breaking down. Manual windows fail far less commonly than powered ones....

Unless it serves a very specific need (as my mother has gotten older, some powered things for her are necessary), I will almost always opt for the simple, mechanical, not powered, not wired, not electronic, not "smart" thing as all of that is, in most cases, just something else to break.

We inherited our washer dryer from the previous owner and they are so fancy (have so many dials, buttons, readouts) that we have to keep the manual out all the time and, still, we're never fully sure what the heck is going on with them. And while there are smarter people than us, we're not idiots and are quite comfortable with computers, software, etc. - these are just over-engineered messes with way too many options for what they do.

Additionally, it is hard to find good repair people and they are expensive when you do - hence, when we buy things, we are always thinking about the "long-term" cost of owning it, plus, regardless of cost, it's a pain in the neck when something brakes. Also, with the simple / mechanical version, there's a shot we can fix it ourselves, with most of this electronic stuff, there's rarely any hope that will happen.

Last example, as time, money and opportunity allow, we are replacing our inherited-from-the-previous-owner fancy PTAC units (combined heating and air-conditioning units that run both the the building's steam heat and through-wall air-conditioning through one complex unit with a bunch of electronic cut-offs, readouts, timers, etc.) that are overly engineered, expensive to buy, run and repair and do nothing particularly well with re-installed old-fashion radiators (as others in the building renovate and throw out their original '28 radiators, we ask for them and use those to replace our PTACs) and basic air conditioning.

We've already done this to one and it's a pleasure. The heat becomes simple, just turn the knob on the 1928 radiator to the right or left if you want more or less heat (versus the LED digital control from h*ll of the PTAC that also had a fan always blowing the heat [and making noise] versus the traditional radiator that lets it simply "radiate" into the room). Even with the expense - I had to hire a plumber and electrician to take out the PTAC and install the radiator and new, simpler AC - in five or so years, I'll have covered the cost and after that I'll keep saving.

 

[sheeplady]

And if you live in a northern climate, electric windows freeze up in the winter with depressing regularity, causing you to swear and pound the glass with your fist while in the drive-thru line at Dunkie's.

Or it's so cold they freeze when you just put them DOWN while waiting for your Dunkin.

And it's a cold ride home and heaven help you if you don't have a garage (we never did).

For a washer, we bought a Speed Queen. I am in love with the thing. Newer machines don't let you set the fill on your machine, and with little kids and adults who have messy hobbies, it takes *water* to get your clothes clean. We've only had it 4 months and I will never buy a different brand of washer. When we move, this one goes with us and we will sell or give away whatever washer we encounter.

 

[Fading Fast]

Or it's so cold they freeze when you just put them DOWN while waiting for your Dunkin.

And it's a cold ride home and heaven help you if you don't have a garage (we never did).

For a washer, we bought a Speed Queen. I am in love with the thing. Newer machines don't let you set the fill on your machine, and with little kids and adults who have messy hobbies, it takes *water* to get your clothes clean. We've only had it 4 months and I will never buy a different brand of washer. When we move, this one goes with us and we will sell or give away whatever washer we encounter.

Growing up in the Northeast, I thought I "knew" cold, but have since learned that the MidWest has another level of cold that is unbelievable. Perhaps Lizzie's Maine can compete, but NYC and Boston, where I've lived, are not MidWest cold.

Owing to so many things - the small laundry "closet" the washer and dryer are in which limits what I can buy that will fit, the cost of changing them out and all the other things we had going on when we moved - we just shrugged and accepted the fancy washer and dryer that were here.

We did make one trip to an appliance store and saw what looked like a 1970s washer and dryer - two square hunk of white painted metal, top loading washer, two or there buttons, one dial and no other "controls" (no digital display), and they were the least expensive and exactly what we wanted - which, if they would have fit, we would have bought, but since that was a no go space-wise, we just accepted the space-shuttle machines we have (and hate them to this day).

One day, I will have a 1970s washer and dryer again and be a happy man.

 

[BlueTrain]

Don't you imagine the ones from the 1960s were better, although not as good as the ones from the '50s. You couldn't get washing machines in the 40s.

 

[Fading Fast]

Don't you imagine the ones from the 1960s were better, although not as good as the ones from the '50s. You couldn't get washing machines in the 40s.

I was just a bit too young to remember what we had the '60s - and we only got a dryer in the '70s (clothes hung on lines in our house or backyard until then and, even, afterwards), but those hulking, metal-box '70s units didn't seem to suffer from the made-like-junk standard that many things in the '70s did. That said, I bet you are correct and the '60s ones were even more battle hardened.

 

[sheeplady]

Growing up in the Northeast, I thought I "knew" cold, but have since learned that the MidWest has another level of cold that is unbelievable. Perhaps Lizzie's Maine can compete, but NYC and Boston, where I've lived, are not MidWest cold.

Owing to so many things - the small laundry "closet" the washer and dryer are in which limits what I can buy that will fit, the cost of changing them out and all the other things we had going on when we moved - we just shrugged and accepted the fancy washer and dryer that were here.

We did make one trip to an appliance store and saw what looked like a 1970s washer and dryer - two square hunk of white painted metal, top loading washer, two or there buttons, one dial and no other "controls" (no digital display), and they were the least expensive and exactly what we wanted - which, if they would have fit, we would have bought, but since that was a no go space-wise, we just accepted the space-shuttle machines we have (and hate them to this day).

One day, I will have a 1970s washer and dryer again and be a happy man.

The Speed Queen is going to be the closest to a 1970s washer you can get. We went to an appliance shop and the guy saved us like $400 by going with an in-matching Maytag dryer... which the salesman said was the same thing, just cheaper. We also got a scratched model (the washer, I think?) and saved another $50. Needless to say, we will go back there for all our appliances.

I grew up in the Adirondacks. It's not uncommon to be in the double digits below zero... temps like -35F with a wind chill below -50 happened for a couple day span at least once or twice a year. I don't miss that, but I do miss the crisp summer evenings. In Virginia the evenings are pleasant, but no early August evening chill.

 

[BlueTrain]

When I was little and on up until after I left home after finishing high school (had to--no basement), we only had a Maytag wringer washer that I imagine was from before the war. It was on wheels because you had to move it to the sink or other place when it was time to pump out the water. It wasn't connected to any water supply. It didn't really have a cabinet except something that enclosed the tub part. The legs were open and the motor was underneath. It was well built, like a truck. We never had a dryer.

When I was away working a summer job, we (where I worked) used a combination washer-dryer, which I thought worked very poorly, at least as far as the drying part went.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My washing machine is an Easy, made in Syracuse in November 1934. I replaced the wringer rollers about five years ago, but everything else is original, and it runs and runs and runs. My dryer is the same piece of rope I strung up when I moved into the house eighteen years ago. Pretty good durability, I'd say.

 

[totallyfrozen]

^^^ Ah, but they saved the company $1.56 per unit by not putting a lock cylinder on the passenger side. As to the original question, All I have read indicates that there were just as many sorry individuals at the height of the manners and etiquette period as their are now. The reporting of these incidents and the fact that more women are not willing to suffer them in silence is the difference.

You speak truth.
Jack The Ripper was butchering women in 1888.


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[Paisley]

"Ma'am" is a delicate situation for a lot of women. In many cases calling a woman in her early thirties "ma'am" is to go sailing for a whaling. It may be normal in the South, but in much of the North it's seen as a word applying only to middle-aged or elderly women, and using it here can be as chancy as going to Birmingham and calling all the women you see "Toots."

There's no better way to signal that you feel old than to get all freaky about being treated like you're over 30. No 18-year-old girl would care if someone called her ma'am.

 

[Paisley]

I just found out that I can't can with a big canner on my glass-top stove (purchased by the previous owners of my house at ridiculous expense). I'm stuck canning three pints at a time in a soup pot because a big canner is too heavy and has a convex bottom, which a glass-top stove won't boil continuously because it turns the heat on and off. A basic gas stove would have been more practical--and a lot less costly.

 

[Paisley]

IIRC, since I don't have the book in front of me, Emily Post advised people with live-in servants to let the girls receive dates in the house because it was safer for them. Girls got doped back in the day--my grandmother, born 1904, said whenever someone gave her a stick of gum, she'd put it in her pocket for that reason.

 

[BlueTrain]

I am shocked! To think that a man would stoop that low! But what do I know?

Although my father was only a truck driver with a modest income, we had a housekeeper. That was chiefly because my mother was an invalid (and did not make it to age 50). But the housekeeper I remember the best was a widow woman who live a couple of blocks away. She was one who had a Victrola that (I think) I mentioned in another thread.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There's no better way to signal that you feel old than to get all freaky about being treated like you're over 30. No 18-year-old girl would care if someone called her ma'am.

I dunno - the 18 year old girls I know seem to prefer to be called "dude."