Detailed Photos of Open-Crown Adam Fedora

[johnnyphi]

Ladies and Gents,

I received a fancy new digital camera for Christmas, so I decided to take some detailed photos of the light grey Adam fedora that I posted on my original thread.

Please take a look at the photos, and let me know if you have any suggestions for improved photo quality, or if certain other elements of the hat should be visible.

Also, if anyone has any information about this type of hat, I would really appreciate it. On the box, this hat is marked as a "stratoliner", but I have been told that "Stratoliner" is actually a Stetson style, so it isn't proper to refer to this hat as a Stratoliner. Some of my other hats have style names printed inside the sweatbands, but this hat doesn't have anything printed inside, so I'm not sure how to discribe the style.

Measurements are as follows:

- Brim (measured from the sweatband to the edge) is 2 3/4".
- Open crown is 6" tall.
- Size printed on the tag and writen on the box is 7 1/2. I measure 23" inches or 58.5 cm.

As always, thoughts and recommendations are appreciated.

 

[cookie]

Adams hat size

Ladies and Gents,

I received a fancy new digital camera for Christmas, so I decided to take some detailed photos of the light grey Adam fedora that I posted on my original thread.

Please take a look at the photos, and let me know if you have any suggestions for improved photo quality, or if certain other elements of the hat should be visible.

Also, if anyone has any information about this type of hat, I would really appreciate it. On the box, this hat is marked as a "stratoliner", but I have been told that "Stratoliner" is actually a Stetson style, so it isn't proper to refer to this hat as a Stratoliner. Some of my other hats have style names printed inside the sweatbands, but this hat doesn't have anything printed inside, so I'm not sure how to discribe the style.

Measurements are as follows:

- Brim (measured from the sweatband to the edge) is 2 3/4".
- Open crown is 6" tall.
- Size printed on the tag and writen on the box is 7 1/2. I measure 23" inches or 58.5 cm.

As always, thoughts and recommendations are appreciated.

The TAGGED measurement is WRONG because 73/8 US (59 Euro) is 23 1/4 inches and 71/2 (60) is a tad over 23 1/2 inches.

 

[johnnyphi]

Good to know...

The TAGGED measurement is WRONG because 73/8 US (59 Euro) is 23 1/4 inches and 71/2 (60) is a tad over 23 1/2 inches.

Thanks for the heads up. This is why I asked for feedback.

I re-measured the hat, and it is definitely 23". I also measured the other Adam fedora I brought home for my dad. It is marked 7 1/2, too.

The second hat also measures 23", which may explain why it is a bit tight on dad, since he normally wears a 7 1/2.

Sounds like these hats may have shrunk by one size over the years.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I'd believe the tagged size over a measurement any day of the week. It's just so hard to measure a hat accurately. I never post a size measurement as they're always inaccurate. I get different numbers every time i measure! But since it's a little tight on someone who normally wears a 7 1/2, your shrinkage idea may be correct. At least now you can say it's a little tight for 7 1/2, but probably too big for 7 3/8. It'll fit someone right in between those sizes.

Or, the tagged measurement is CORRECT, and Adam hats just run a bit small (they do, in my opinion). Is the sweatband "puckered up", wavy at all? When a hat shrinks, this is one of the most obvious signs.

I don't quite recall Adam's quality designations. There's Premier (one i have), Executive (obviously), and i think Imperial. I seem to remember there are more quality gradings than this.

Lovely looking hat. We need to see the liner and any graphics that are on it.

A shot like this would be very helpful:

bk

 

[scotrace]

Here is another voice saying Adam hats run a little snug for the tagged size. I've got one in a 7.5 that is going to have to go out for stretching before I can wear it.

Also add "Majestic" to the Adam quality lineup, though I don't know the hierarchy.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That's it! "Majestic". Not "Imperial". Thanks, Scott.

bk

 

[johnnyphi]

Sweatband Photos, with markings

Gents -

Here's a photo of the full sweatband. I used a couple of small pieces of paper towel to prop the markings up, so they are all visible in the photo. I checked for any puckering on the sweatband, and I can't find any evidence of shinking.

Also, I noticed that the Adam logo changed at some point. On this hat, the logo is "Adam - First Name in Hats". In the fadora I gave to my dad, the logo says "Adam - America's Famous Hatter". Is there any way to know when each logo was used by Adam?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

There are going to be many, many different liner logos. I don't know of any way to tell when they were used.

bk

 

[Brad Bowers]

Sometimes you can find out basic dates for artwork and slogans from the trademark filings, but a search in this case turned up a dead end. Miller Bros. only registered the name Adam, with no artwork or slogans. Interestingly, the trademark application wasn't filed until 1980, 56 years after it was first used. I would have guessed Adam hats were pretty much history by then. Could be they were banking the name against a future comeback.

Brad

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I've been able to find no record of Adam hats (ads, newspaper references etc.) from after the middle 1950s.

bk

 

[johnnyphi]

What should I think about all of this?

I have no clue how you gents have been able to check patent records, etc., but I'm curious about what it all means. Are we saying my hats date back to the 50's?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

1950s or earlier on the "Adam" hats i've seen you post. Some of the others looked younger - maybe 60s/70s - but this particular one is an old hat.

bk

 

[reetpleat]

He he, I see a newbie discovered an excellent way to get the old timers to not just say, "We have discussed this topic. I suggest you do a search for previous threads."

The secret is have a bunch of deadstock hats in big sizes to sell. That will get their attention.

Thansks for letting us know our greatest fantasies still exist out there tucked away in backrooms and attics across America.

Gives us a reason to get out of bed in the morning.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Shrinkage...

...is possible.

When one imagines a hat sitting year in and out in a hot attic in DC, where the temperatures could easily get north of 120, its not hard to believe the hats shrunk a bit.

I recently rediscovered one of my old hats that spent at least the last 10 years in un-airconditioned attics and it sits like a thimble on my head.

 

[scotrace]

1950s or earlier on the "Adam" hats i've seen you post. Some of the others looked younger - maybe 60s/70s - but this particular one is an old hat.

bk

Agreed. This one is likely early 50's or before.

If you run across any un-installed Adam leather sweatbands, I sorely need one.

 

[dhermann1]

"Shrinkage"

I believe those are from the "Costanza" line.

 

[johnnyphi]

Cool...

Agreed. This one is likely early 50's or before.

If you run across any un-installed Adam leather sweatbands, I sorely need one.

You guys are cool. If this hat is old, then I've got lots more old hats. I saw several of these green Adam boxes. I could also call the owner and ask when he stopped buying the Adam hats.

By the way, did any of you see my post about Royalist brand hats? I found quite a few in the attic area, and they seemed to be in good condition. The owner told me that the quality is similar to Stetson. From memory, I believe the markings said the hats were made in London. I haven't found anything about Royalist hats on here, but that may be because they are more rare.

I didn't see any un-installed sweatbands. What about re-using a sweatband from a hat that has been damaged?

 

[johnnyphi]

Aqua Shed Treated for Water Repellency - TM

Sometimes you can find out basic dates for artwork and slogans from the trademark filings, but a search in this case turned up a dead end. Miller Bros. only registered the name Adam, with no artwork or slogans. Interestingly, the trademark application wasn't filed until 1980, 56 years after it was first used. I would have guessed Adam hats were pretty much history by then. Could be they were banking the name against a future comeback.

Brad

Just below the "Execultive Quality" logo, there is a marking that says "Aqua Shed Treated for Water Repellency - TM". Is it possible to use that trademark to date the hat?

Here's a photo of the marking:

 

[johnnyphi]

Dad's Adam fedora for comparison

Gents,

I took photos of the tan fedora I gave to dad for Christmas. It is significantly different, so I thought it might be helpful for comparison purposes.

One big difference is that this hat appears to be "pre-blocked". The crown is more firm than the unblocked hat, and the creases are perfect. Both have thin ribbons, with a ribbon along the edge of the brim. The biggest differences can be found on the inside of the hats. The sweatband on dad's hat is deeper, and the leather is more supple. Each marking is different from the corresponding markings on the light grey hat. Interesting...

 

[Brad Bowers]

The only possibly relevant trademarks I find for "Aqua Shed" date to 1962 and 1963, registered to Springs Cotton Mills. This treatment is mentioned for "DURABLE WATER REPELLENT FINISH-MILDEW, SOIL AND PERSPIRATION RESISTANT AS APPLIED TO COTTON PIECE GOODS."

Though it's mentioned for cotton, it makes sense that it might have been applied to leather. It also makes sense that the Aqua Shed referred to on the hat is a registered trademark of a company other than Adam Hats.

If the Aqua Shed I found is the same, then this hat dates no earlier than 1962, and more likely 1963 or 1964. Later than that, and you'd start seeing black sweatbands. But this is still only speculation and nothing definitive.

It still seems like an earlier hat than 1962, though.

Wish I could have been of more help!

Brad