Dawn of a New Epoch

[Inkstainedwretch]

Humans are problem-solving creatures. It's how we've survived until now. The problem is, we evolved to survive immediate, pressing, desperate problems, not long-term ones. For most of our history it was escaping that sabretooth tiger, scraping together enough calories to live for another day. We're still really good at that sort of problem-solving: win that war, create that medicine, fight that fire or dam that river. We're not so good at tackling problems that take decades to develop and deal with. The consequences are just too far off. It's true even in our personal lives. Americans obsess over e. coli, a vanishingly rare disease, in the burger. But we keep right on eating the burgers, which will kill us just as surely, but will take many years to do it.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Maybe part of that is that, as individuals, we don't live long at all. Threescore and ten, more or less, isn't even a drizzle in the pail -- and people can indulge in all the metahuman/cyberhuman fantasies they like about lifespans measured in centuries, but the fact remains that we aren't tortoises. We're primates, and primates have a built in clock that just doesn't run all that long. We can keep rewinding the clock for a while, but eventually the mainspring's going to wear out, and then boom, that's the end of it. We don't think longterm because as individuals it's hard for us to see beyond our own tiny, insignificant little lifespans. Sure people talk about "oh, I want to leave a better world for my kids/future generations/whatever," but their actions consistently say "Well, I'll be dead a hundred years from now, so screw it."

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Millions of years from now, if any archaeologists exist to excavate the planet, they'll be able to reconstruct an perfectly accurate map of mid-twentieth century highway systems simply from tracing these lead deposits in the sedimentary layer of the Anthropogenic Epoch.

I wonder what they will make of the fossilized McDonald's packaging

 

[Trenchfriend]

Again the point:

Time, your hunter or companion?

 

[Bushman]

I wonder what they will make of the fossilized McDonald's packaging

Or the fossilized McDonald's.

 

[sheeplady]

Maybe part of that is that, as individuals, we don't live long at all. Threescore and ten, more or less, isn't even a drizzle in the pail -- and people can indulge in all the metahuman/cyberhuman fantasies they like about lifespans measured in centuries, but the fact remains that we aren't tortoises. We're primates, and primates have a built in clock that just doesn't run all that long. We can keep rewinding the clock for a while, but eventually the mainspring's going to wear out, and then boom, that's the end of it. We don't think longterm because as individuals it's hard for us to see beyond our own tiny, insignificant little lifespans. Sure people talk about "oh, I want to leave a better world for my kids/future generations/whatever," but their actions consistently say "Well, I'll be dead a hundred years from now, so screw it."

Lots of people don't even bother with "pass a better earth onto the kids attitude." There's people who say, "my kids can deal with the mess I leave behind." To their kids face.

I'll admit it, I'm kind of an environmentalist. 8 don't believe in abusing resources. I believe in mend and make do, reusing things, and recycling. I dont like so many pesticides used on our food. I'm not perfect, and I don't pretend to be. But I try to have less (a battle in today's society) to let me do more for others.

And yes, there is a religious aspect to my belief that we walk lightly on the earth. Do I fall short? Sure, just like many fall short of their religious teachings. But you get up, brush yourself off, and try again.

 

[JimWagner]

Most people I know don't own strip mines, oil refineries, nuclear power plants, toxic waste dumps, etc. While turning off your lights is certainly a good idea the truth is that the amount of residential electricity used across world is a fraction of what gets used in industry and business. Getting individuals to "conserve" is mostly political theater designed to shift the guilt away from those who are really making the biggest messes. Not at all saying individuals shouldn't conserve, but as long as you are focusing on individual conservation the real culprits are killing us all.

No amount of standing around protesting with signs is going to have the effect on politicians that money in the pocket from the major players has had and will continue to have. Sure, the politician seeking reelection will give mouth service to the protesters to curry their votes, but they'll still take the money and vote in ways to keep it coming in.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't conserve because I'm trying to make a point. I conserve because I think wastefulness is both decadent and stupid.

 

[Bushman]

I don't conserve because I'm trying to make a point. I conserve because I think wastefulness is both decadent and stupid.

Agreed. Most people see "green energy" and don't look beyond the political message. I look at green energy, and see less dirty air leading asthmatics like my mother and my cousin. Less poisoned water, and more fruitful crops from less contaminated dirt. I keep only what lights I need on, use only what water is necessary, and keep the heat and air low because I see lower electricity, water, and gas bills and more money in my own pockets. In my eyes, it's less sending a political message, and more living a frugal, economic life. Honestly, had the Dust Bowl happened today, programs like crop rotation and the Shelterbelt would be mired for decades as politicians debated whether or not the "Dust Bowl" even existed.

 

[sheeplady]

Most people I know don't own strip mines, oil refineries, nuclear power plants, toxic waste dumps, etc. While turning off your lights is certainly a good idea the truth is that the amount of residential electricity used across world is a fraction of what gets used in industry and business. Getting individuals to "conserve" is mostly political theater designed to shift the guilt away from those who are really making the biggest messes. Not at all saying individuals shouldn't conserve, but as long as you are focusing on individual conservation the real culprits are killing us all.

No amount of standing around protesting with signs is going to have the effect on politicians that money in the pocket from the major players has had and will continue to have. Sure, the politician seeking reelection will give mouth service to the protesters to curry their votes, but they'll still take the money and vote in ways to keep it coming in.

While I understand your point, and I agree that the "little people" focusing on conservation is mainly a distraction, I like to think it makes a difference on some level.

I'll give you a quick example. My old neighbors, a family of five, put out 3 large trashcans of garbage per week, always overflowing and often with extras. Never any recycables. We as a family of 4 put out less than half a small can a week and at least one bin of recycleables. The neighbors never take anything to goodwill and place their old furniture curbside in the rain (I believe on purpose... in ten years they got new sofas three times, two new dining sets, etc.)

You can't tell me that if everyone lived like my neighbors we wouldn't have a lot more trash. Individuals add up.

 

[JimWagner]

Well, the approach people employ in their recycling and conservation can be pretty quirky sometimes depending on their fundamental personalities or mindset. Before I continue, this is just what happens at my house and I'm neither criticizing nor justifying, just describing.

My wife has more of a puritanical or possibly just a Chinese attitude towards the whole thing compared to me. She'll reuse a paper towel or a sheet of note paper as much as she can. She'll save food jars until I finally can't take it any more and thin the herd. She follows me around the house sometimes turning off lights behind me knowing full well I'm just leaving the room to go get something and will be back in less than a minute. Everything that can possibly go into the recycling can does. Sometimes I'll go out of my way to toss a drink bottle in the regular trash right in front of her just to mess with her.

Now, me, I replaced all the incandescent light bulbs in the house with LED bulbs. If one stays on a while it's really not a big deal to me. Lighting is a small part of our electric bill these days.

Because my wife had to start chemo earlier last year I pretty much took over all the housework. I wash our clothes separately. I bought more shirts and underwear for myself. I typically wash my clothes in two loads every other week. That washer and dryer use a lot more electricity than all the lights in the house combined. She still needs her clothes washed weekly, but overall we wash fewer loads now.

Finally, we have had a good natured running battle for many years now over bottled water. She refuses to drink tap water. Doesn't like the taste. I installed a good filter and dedicated faucet when all this started. I cannot taste or smell any difference between water out of our filtered faucet and bottled water. She won't drink it. Only bottled water. And a lot of it. We go through 3 cases of the stuff every week. More than half of what ends up in our recyling can is those darn plastic bottles. She's seen all the anti-plastic bottle stuff, but the woman who reuses paper towels won't get off bottled water.

We all pick and choose what and how we conserve. You won't earn sainthood recycling and at least so far there are no secret green police breaking down our doors. Imperfect personal conservation is better than none at all.

And there's not a single bumper sticker of any kind on my vehicle.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Well someone ain't switching off their lights !

 

[sheeplady]

Well, the approach people employ in their recycling and conservation can be pretty quirky sometimes depending on their fundamental personalities or mindset. Before I continue, this is just what happens at my house and I'm neither criticizing nor justifying, just describing.

My wife has more of a puritanical or possibly just a Chinese attitude towards the whole thing compared to me. She'll reuse a paper towel or a sheet of note paper as much as she can. She'll save food jars until I finally can't take it any more and thin the herd. She follows me around the house sometimes turning off lights behind me knowing full well I'm just leaving the room to go get something and will be back in less than a minute. Everything that can possibly go into the recycling can does. Sometimes I'll go out of my way to toss a drink bottle in the regular trash right in front of her just to mess with her.

Now, me, I replaced all the incandescent light bulbs in the house with LED bulbs. If one stays on a while it's really not a big deal to me. Lighting is a small part of our electric bill these days.

Because my wife had to start chemo earlier last year I pretty much took over all the housework. I wash our clothes separately. I bought more shirts and underwear for myself. I typically wash my clothes in two loads every other week. That washer and dryer use a lot more electricity than all the lights in the house combined. She still needs her clothes washed weekly, but overall we wash fewer loads now.

Finally, we have had a good natured running battle for many years now over bottled water. She refuses to drink tap water. Doesn't like the taste. I installed a good filter and dedicated faucet when all this started. I cannot taste or smell any difference between water out of our filtered faucet and bottled water. She won't drink it. Only bottled water. And a lot of it. We go through 3 cases of the stuff every week. More than half of what ends up in our recyling can is those darn plastic bottles. She's seen all the anti-plastic bottle stuff, but the woman who reuses paper towels won't get off bottled water.

We all pick and choose what and how we conserve. You won't earn sainthood recycling and at least so far there are no secret green police breaking down our doors. Imperfect personal conservation is better than none at all.

And there's not a single bumper sticker of any kind on my vehicle.

I know when I went through chemo our tap water tasted disgusting. It burnt my mouth. You know you're going through hell when even water turns on you.

 

[JimWagner]

I know when I went through chemo our tap water tasted disgusting. It burnt my mouth. You know you're going through hell when even water turns on you.

Sorry you've had to go through that. My wife has been lucky in that her taste hasn't really been affected. The water filter situation here has been going on for 20 years and predates her health problems significantly. Just one of those quirky things.

 

[tonyb]

My lovely missus rarely drinks tsp water, although she's okay with that same tap water when it is run through a Brita filter pitcher and refrigerated.

 

[sheeplady]

Sorry you've had to go through that. My wife has been lucky in that her taste hasn't really been affected. The water filter situation here has been going on for 20 years and predates her health problems significantly. Just one of those quirky things.

I handled chemo "well" according to my doctors. ("Well" is a relative term, if you get my drift.) I did pretty well in regards to mouth issues (no bad sores, didn't lose any teeth) but I did lose my taste buds. Couldnt taste vinegar or sour at all, salt was iffy. They grew back.

But now I can't eat sugar-free stuff with saccharine or aspartame. I can taste the stuff. Or drink cola at all- far too thick and sweet. Not too much of a loss.

Most bottled water tastes funny to me, but I'm blessed to live in an area where the water tastes good and is safe to drink.