Color of Vintage Navy vs. Modern Navy?

[The Good]

I have heard it said somewhere over at the Style Forum that vintage navy suits, blazers, or sport coats, were actually a bit lighter blue than what is termed "navy" in modern equivalents. I have noticed that what is termed navy nowadays, is almost black, but not quite. Is this true? If so, when did the color of navy become darker in clothing? Was this during the 1960s, or 1970s?

 

[sinatra66]

midnight blue is almost black, navy blue is dark blue.

 

[Geesie]

And actual "Navy blue" uniforms are black.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

J.B.
I know exactly what you mean. I have a new suit made with a nice vintage-style/weight flannel, and it is a much nicer, richer, bluer navy blue. I notice a major difference in what retail calls navy blue. Like most new things, the attention to what makes the old details so appealing is normally overlooked.

 

[Cobden]

One thing to bear in mind is that blue dye used to be fairly notorious for not being able to hold colour well. It improved progressively from the late 18th century onwards, but it was a fairly slow process, and it was really only the onset of artificial materials and chemical dyes that it became fast (even today, if for some reason best known to yourself you were to buy a suit with a wool jacket and polyester trousers, the former would fade faster then the latter. I'm sure we've all had experience of blue fading at some point). It's not just blue dye this effects, but blue paints as well (as anyone who has seen the livery of late 60's British Rail Mark 1 rolling stock after a few years can testify!). This is one of the reasons why the blue worn by the Royal and US Navy is actually black - largely because the after a couple of years prowling the decks of an wooden frigate the uniform would become a rather unfetching shade of medium blue-ish, and black was a better (albeit more expensive) dye, and when it did fade it did at least become the shade of blue that it was supposed to (I have in my posession several RN tunics - my WWI no. 4's frock coat has maintained it's black colour, despite being older, then the WWII no 5 monkey jackets, on account of it being worn less. The WWII jackets are very much very much navy blue-blue, excepting one which is best described as a sort of dark royal blue.) Indeed, the fading of blue may have been a reason why blue caught on in the early 19th century amongst the upper classes - alongside Beau Brummel's endorsement - it was exclusive, as only the wealthy could afford to buy enough coats and replace them often enough to maintain the look.

Of course blue holds better then some other dyes, notably cochineal red (the heavy rains before waterloo meant that, in all probability, the British army marched against napolean in fetching pink coats)...and I could waffle on about why the fading was less relevant in the British army at this time, but you're probably bored already....

 

[David Conwill]

To further muddy things, I have a pair of slacks in what was termed "Federal blue" that is somewhere between Navy and Midnight. lol

I think it's called Federal after the color of Union Army jackets from the Civil War.

-Dave

 

[Mid-fogey]

True navy blue...

…is so dark it looks black until you hold something that really is black next to it. At that point you can see that what looked black is really very, very dark blue.

I had a true navy blue suit years ago and enjoyed it when someone would refer to it as black. I’d tell them, it was blue and they’d scoff me. I’d then hold my black portfolio up against it and get the “son-of-a-gun” look.

 

[Yeps]

So is there a difference between "true navy blue" as you are talking about and midnight blue, like you see in formal wear?