Childless in the Golden Era

[Paisley]

So, for those of us who don't care who said what to whom, probably quite a few female performers were childless (I think Ella Fitzgerald and Greta Garbo were among them).

And yes, KD Lightner, I like coming home to a peaceful house.

 

[jamespowers]

Having had my name used in vain here, my intention was not to stray far off topic but to relate a case I came in contact with and warn others what could happen---specific to the topic title.
Paisley is absolutely right here in her quote:
"Parents need to get their affairs in order so their children (or whoever is their executor or has power of attorney) won't have to deal with a mess. Just the other night, I had a nightmare that I had to deal with my parents' stuff because they were going to a nursing home."

You just save yourself and your family a lot of grief.
Coming home to a quiet house has its drawbacks. I kind of miss the din if I get there when no one is home.

 

[Elaina]

Not to mention if my kid's not here, I can go for a long time with not talking to anyone.

While I do have a kid, I pretty well do it as a part time parent. I work odd hours and when I don't see him (and it happens where I can go with talking to him on the phone instead), so I can see both sides. Kid's used to it, and I have family he's happy to be with, but it is what it is.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Having had my name used in vain here,..D

My apologies if I offended you...no harm intended..

I made the decision not to have children while I was running my own business, attending graduate school full time and working on Wall street full time. I considered it to be unfair to the would be child to have an absentee father.

Now I am a full time father and "retired" from my practice. I would not have it any other way.

The only difference I see is that I cannot curse as much as I used to and I play my guitar for a different audience; toddlers.

For me the issues are the same. After all, I chose to make a career in the helping professions. So before I had "one" to be concerned with I had hundreds I was responsible for. So in some ways it is easier with a child.

 

[Elaina]

I didn't intend it either, but I also don't intend on being in a relationship that isn't mentally or physically good for me or my child either.

Kids can forgive absenteeism. They can't forgive you being stupid or worse because you didn't want to do it on your own.

 

[jamespowers]

My apologies if I offended you...no harm intended..

I made the decision not to have children while I was running my own business, attending graduate school full time and working on Wall street full time. I considered it to be unfair to the would be child to have an absentee father.

Now I am a full time father and "retired" from my practice. I would not have it any other way.

The only difference I see is that I cannot curse as much as I used to and I play my guitar for a different audience; toddlers.

For me the issues are the same. After all, I chose to make a career in the helping professions. So before I had "one" to be concerned with I had hundreds I was responsible for. So in some ways it is easier with a child.

Neither of your posts was what I had in mind when I wrote that.
I am a father later in life as well due to a few of the items you listed.

 

[jamespowers]

I didn't intend it either, but I also don't intend on being in a relationship that isn't mentally or physically good for me or my child either.

Kids can forgive absenteeism. They can't forgive you being stupid or worse because you didn't want to do it on your own.

No, you post was just fine.
That last bit is extremely important in the decision to have children. Many people I know told me that they thought I wasn't going to have children when they found out that my wife and I were going to have a child---not so much with the second one.

 

[Paisley]

Coming home to a quiet house has its drawbacks. I kind of miss the din if I get there when no one is home.

Not for me. I have a low tolerance for certain kinds of noise. Jackhammers, honking horns, barking dogs and such don't bother me. But if I'm around loud kids for 15 minutes, I get a splitting headache.

Personally, I knew from about age 12 that I didn't want any.

I like the points made about men having to make tradeoffs and decisions, too. All that is ever in the media regards women having to juggle things.

 

[jamespowers]

Not for me. I have a low tolerance for certain kinds of noise. Jackhammers, honking horns, barking dogs and such don't bother me. But if I'm around loud kids for 15 minutes, I get a splitting headache.

Personally, I knew from about age 12 that I didn't want any.

I like the points made about men having to make tradeoffs and decisions, too. All that is ever in the media regards women having to juggle things.

To be honest, sometimes the din is not exactly pleasant either.
Men make tradeoffs and women make trade offs its just what you do as a responsible parent.
Being childless in the golden age might have involved some tradeoffs as to what was said behind your back as well as in front of you. My great uncle never had children back then and he was always referred to a confirmed bachelor, kind of a funny type of guy, not the marrying kind etc. He had girlfriends and such but he never got married---or had children.
There was not only a stigma for women it was for men as well. I suppose it has/had to do with that whole urge to procreate thing. [huh] It might have actually been worse for men as they were expected to take the initiative.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Neither of your posts was what I had in mind when I wrote that.

Maybe not but it got me thinking in some creative and thoughtful ways. In many regards having children or not is the same side of the coin. Should I have stayed childless those whom I have reached out to, i.e. fatherless children would still have me at their disposal. I. nevertheless, would have been still left unfulfilled.

 

[MisterCairo]

The "din" I've come home to has been head splitting at times, with a three year old and 11 month old. Not pleasant.

However, we've been apart for over two weeks now, until I move "home" at the end of the month. Yesterday on the phone, my 11 month old said "hi" to me for the first time.

Like the credit card commercial says: PRICELESS

 

[jamespowers]

However, we've been apart for over two weeks now, until I move "home" at the end of the month. Yesterday on the phone, my 11 month old said "hi" to me for the first time.

Like the credit card commercial says: PRICELESS

It sure is isn't it? I have a message saved on my phone with both my sons saying hello to me---one is nearly three now and the other is one. I know what you mean the little milestones stay with you. :eusa_clap

 

[jamespowers]

Maybe not but it got me thinking in some creative and thoughtful ways. In many regards having children or not is the same side of the coin. Should I have stayed childless those whom I have reached out to, i.e. fatherless children would still have me at their disposal. I. nevertheless, would have been still left unfulfilled.

Glad to make you think.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Yes, I did have a chihuahua. If I missed out on the "mothering" gene, I certainly do have the dog lover gene.

I do miss the little guy. Like children, they are a lot of work and worry. And, in the end, he broke my heart.

No children and no more adopting dogs. Unless a dog adopts me.

karol

 

[Viola]

The only childless woman I can think of at the moment in my extended family was not childless by choice, it was her husbands' choice. (and done in a way I thought was sad) She was a very nuturing, kind woman, and many people in the family felt bad for her. I remember her fondly, and I also felt bad for her. Not BECAUSE she was childless, though, but rather just because it didn't seem natural to her. I would think a woman forced to have children she didn't want was sad too.

The childless men in my family were a more mixed bunch but a number of them were... odd. Not in being childless, but mental health diagnoses were not, in the Golden Era, what they are today. Several spent decades homeless or in WWII veterans' hospitals. I say homeless but the family did not cut contact; in one case he came happily home once every few months... in exactly the unchanged outfit he'd left in... and got scrubbed down and a change of clothes in the garage before his brother let him in the house. He'd stay a little while and leave again and no one knew where he went.

 

[MisterCairo]

Yes, I did have a chihuahua. If I missed out on the "mothering" gene, I certainly do have the dog lover gene.

I do miss the little guy. Like children, they are a lot of work and worry. And, in the end, he broke my heart.

No children and no more adopting dogs. Unless a dog adopts me.

karol

Both my mum and mother in law say the same thing, they'll never have another dog as they can't "replace" Monty or Willie respectively.

What a shame! If you love dogs, do one and yourself a favour and adopt from the pound! (Unless of course your circumstances won't allow a pet) It won't be a replacement for beloved Spot, or what have you, but a new friend!

 

[K.D. Lightner]

MisterCairo -- That's my feeling, too, get a dog from the pound. It saves a life and mutts are usually healthier than pure breds. I cannot get one right now -- I am care taking my 90-year old mother, who does not want a dog in the house and cannot care for it when I am away.

Just like young kids, having a pet means you have to be concerned as to who is going to take care of it if anything happens to you.

At some point, the kiddies grow up and, largely, are able to be on their own, and lead their owns lives (although I know of a number of situations where that is not so). But with an animal, you need to know who will take it once you are incapacitated or gone. That could happen to anyone, but we who are older have to really think hard about it.

karol

 

[Carlisle Blues]

MisterCairo -- That's my feeling, too, get a dog from the pound. It saves a life and mutts are usually healthier than pure breds. I cannot get one right now -- I am care taking my 90-year old mother, who does not want a dog in the house and cannot care for it when I am away.

Just like young kids, having a pet means you have to be concerned as to who is going to take care of it if anything happens to you.

At some point, the kiddies grow up and, largely, are able to be on their own, and lead their owns lives (although I know of a number of situations where that is not so). But with an animal, you need to know who will take it once you are incapacitated or gone. That could happen to anyone, but we who are older have to really think hard about it.

karol

I get mine from the rescue people...have two chihuahua now and looking for a greyhound rescue....Lot of work more than my 3 year old at least he is toilet trained. I wish I could say the same for myself.

 

[Lady Day]

So, for those of us who don't care who said what to whom, probably quite a few female performers were childless (I think Ella Fitzgerald and Greta Garbo were among them).

And yes, KD Lightner, I like coming home to a peaceful house.

Ella did have a son, (adopted) and she admits she never expected it.

Yeah, lets get this back on topic with my original post. No more planning for your life talk.

LD

 

[K.D. Lightner]

One thing I definitely recall as a young girl and woman during the late 50's and early 60's, and my mother remembers from the 30's and 40's, was this:

In the golden era, a woman who was childless was looked upon as a bit of a freak. The mildest comments would be that the poor thing was an "unfulfilled woman" regardless of whether she said she wanted children or not. It was generally thought that, someday, she would regret it and look with envy on those who had produced and were raising offspring.

That never happened to me.

A nastier comment was being called an "un-natural woman." That moniker was thrown at me by some of my own relatives.

However, if you did have children, you better have a wedding ring. Bearing chidren out of wedlock was a big no-no -- you were a social pariah. Women hid in shame when they were pregnant, bearing the child and giving it away for adoption.

I had a friend who was unable to get a driver's license in Iowa because she couldn't get car insurance. Why? She was an unwed mother. Now, of course, the father of the child was running around insured to the teeth, but my friend was considered a poor risk because of her social status. This was in 1971!

I was almost tempted to move back to Iowa, deliberately have a baby out-of- wedlock and apply for car insurance. Then, when turned down, I would have taken that puppy all the way to the supreme court!

karol