Changes in Attitude in Marriage & Divorce from the Golden Era to Now.

[Foofoogal]

I wish we had a poll here to those who have thought the grass was greener and jumped and now regret it.

I don't think that people would be so inclined to ask more subtle questions about their spouses' suitability to themselves if not for the surplus resources that are present to be used now.

this is exactly it.

 

[Paisley]

There's a kind of relationship where you're free to pursue other people, you have no responsibilities, your own happiness is supreme and you can leave anytime you want. It's called "friends with benefits."

 

[John in Covina]

In general there has been a shift of the concepts of personal responsibility as to others. Not that everyone has taken the those changes to heart, but the popular culture embraces a selfcenter follow your heart approach with out understanding that your darkest deepest desires are in your heart also.

With that for many we have now a sense of starter husband or starter wife, and the vows are "Until inconvenience do us part."

 

[jamespowers]

In general there has been a shift of the concepts of personal responsibility as to others. Not that everyone has taken the ose change to heart, but the popular culture embracess a selfcenter follow your heart approach with out understanding that your darkest deepest desires are in your heart also.

With that for many we have now a sense of starter husband or starter wife, and the vows are "Until inconvenience do us part."

Man, that is really a good point. My grandparents on both sides were married for over fifty years each. 65 on one side. The relationships were both different but they definitely had their ups and downs. It wasn't about them personally in the realtionship. It was a lot about the other person and what made them happy. My grandmother would do things my grandfather liked even though she didn't like them and vice versa. Making the other person happy made them happy. It wasn't all "what about me?" Of course, they were from a generation even before the WWII generation. My mother's parents were born in 1894 and 1902. My father's parents were born in 1903 and 1912. This is probably a generation older than most have experienced as grandparents.
My mother was involved in my father's hobbies not because she was interested but to help him with his interest. In fact, it grew larger than she imagined with her encouragement. Sometimes you have to close your eyes to certain aspects that you clearly knew you were getting into when you got married. That was my grandmother's advice. Other times you set things right so you don't end up making it a festering sore throughout the marriage. Drugs, infidelity and abuse are all dealbreakers.
I've got a song for this one too, John:

Memories are Made of This

Sweet, sweet memories you gave-a me
you can't beat the memeories you gave-a me

Take one fresh and tender kiss
Add one stolen night of bliss
One girl, one boy
Some grief, some joy
Memories are made of this

Don't forget a small moonbeam
Fold in lightly with a dream
Your lips and mine
Two sips of wine
Memories are made of this

Then add the wedding bells
One house where lovers dwell
Three little kids for flavor
Stir carefully through the days
See how the flavor stays
These are the dreams you will savor

With His blessings from above
Serve it generously with love
One man, one wife
One love through life
Memories are made of this
Memories are made of this

My grandmother liked this song by this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MWN_duZfIs

 

[John in Covina]

Mutual support and living so that it is for the other and for both before living for me is as they would say old school.

 

[jamespowers]

Mutual support and living so that it is for the other and for both before living for me is as they would say old school.

Exactly. It has worked for me for a little while so far as well. (12 years)
Reminds me of stories my grandmother used to tell about having to be careful what she said around my grandfather. If she complained in passing about something not working right around the house, he would disappear for a while and a new one would be on the table or in its place before long.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In general there has been a shift of the concepts of personal responsibility as to others. Not that everyone has taken the those changes to heart, but the popular culture embraces a selfcenter follow your heart approach with out understanding that your darkest deepest desires are in your heart also.

I think this goes along with another important point -- pre-'60s generations tended, on the whole, to be a lot less introspective than current generations. If you read through the popular press of the day you'll see far less emphasis on the sort of navel-gazing that's so common now among the boomers and their progeny. Again, it was deeply ingrained in the culture that there was something not right about too much self-examination, too much dwelling on one's own issues, so for the most part it just wasn't done. One might be unhappy, but it wasn't acceptable to admit it: in the greater scheme of things, it was considered petty and selfish to focus on one's own problems when there was a Depression on or a war to be won. It's no coincidence that the first great wave of self-examination by the middle class came along with postwar prosperity.

You could argue that this is unhealthy, and in certain ways it was. But you could also argue that too *much* focus on one's own issues is equally so.

 

[Paisley]

My brother-in-law stayed with my sister through her illness, physical and mental, even though they were divorced. The rest of us couldn't handle her--she might have ended up destitute without Bob. After my sister died, I had a plaque made for Bob with the lyrics to the song "I'm glad there is you":

In this world of overrated pleasures
Of underrated treasures
Im glad there is you

In this world where many, many play at love
And hardly any stay in love
Im glad there is you

Bob will always have my gratitude, respect and admiration.

Foofoogal, you can add my sister to your list of people who threw away happiness with both hands to look for a greener pasture.

 

[Foofoogal]

If she complained in passing about something not working right around the house, he would disappear for a while and a new one would be on the table or in its place before long.

It is true. By adding to this conversation it is no skin off of my nose but it makes me sad. I see people going for the supposed gold only to find fools gold. If it glitters it is not always gold. I had a very beautiful friend who was a kept woman for lack of better words and it was disastrous.
I am not meaning we should expect very little but this navel gazing as Lizzie put it is why it is now such a mess.
I know myself since I can no longer work at the local food pantry which I did for 4 years I am getting sick of my own self introspection.
This is I have found personally what brings me the most satisfaction. Serving, serving my honey and serving my children and now grandchildren. The 4 years were exceedingly content for me when I did work the food pantry.
Jamespowers described my marriage exactly.
He fixes everything and lives to meet my needs and make life as comfortable as we can and I do the same.
Married in 1975 and this year with our move and other issues have made us cling to each other even more.
It is a beautiful thing to have someone to be your confidant and friend for so many years that you trust.
I so feel for those who do not have this and/or who has lost this.
This generation by not having these vintage ways have been greatly stolen from. Pure and simple. Not sure if it will reverse or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36bGhLkNFHM

Don't think he doesn't have his ways and me mine and I have had to beat them off with a stick a few times and cut them off at the pass but I believe in fighting to keep what you have. Don't take it for granted is so necessary. Treasure it.

 

[Joie DeVive]

I would say that there are a myriad of societal and economic reasons for the change in the attitudes about divorce you see today. Some of the reasons are more influential than others.

If I had to pick two of the heavy hitters, I'd say Foofoogal has named one already. Marriages change over time, and marriage isn't that "happily ever after". So much of our culture tells young people that marriage is the achievement. I personally think the outlandish wedding industry fuels this particular fire, but that's me. I've described it to other young brides saying that the wedding isn't analogous to graduation. It's analogous to passing the entrance exams, and the marriage is graduate level studies.
I think it's a shock to a lot of people when they realize that marriage isn't always easy. It takes work and a lot of it. It requires patience and selflessness and it isn't always fun.

This leads into my second reason, which I would say is that today's culture is teaching that if it isn't fun, it's bad. It seems that instant gratification has led to the idea of constant gratification. The current culture seems to be carrying the belief that a person should be happy all the time and if that person isn't, there's a problem. Happiness and joy are seen not as parts of the colorful tapestry that is life, but as what life should always be. I see it as a shift from the right to pursue happiness to the right to expect happiness. Fun is a key part of life. We should seek out joy and revel in it. However, life will not always be fun. Life can be hard and ugly and it can just plain hurt. That isn't bad. It just is.

That's not to say that people in the past didn't bail when things got rough. My own Great-grandfather was evidence of that but I think that people in generations past were more likely to see rough patches in life as just a part of life and tolerate them.

 

[jamespowers]

My brother-in-law stayed with my sister through her illness, physical and mental, even though they were divorced. The rest of us couldn't handle her--she might have ended up destitute without Bob. After my sister died, I had a plaque made for Bob with the lyrics to the song "I'm glad there is you":

In this world of overrated pleasures
Of underrated treasures
Im glad there is you

In this world where many, many play at love
And hardly any stay in love
Im glad there is you

Bob will always have my gratitude, respect and admiration.

Foofoogal, you can add my sister to your list of people who threw away happiness with both hands to look for a greener pasture.

That was very nice of you and I commend you for it. Sometimes good deeds go unrewarded and that is a shame but I am sure he did it because of love not acclaim or reward and that is something unto itself. :eusa_clap

 

[Flivver]

Why is staying in a bad marriage the best path?

If the marriage is truly bad, it's not the best path.

But, I've seen too many cases where people rush into marriage without sufficient time spent getting to know one another because marriage today is so easy to undo if it doesn't work out. And, it's so socially acceptable to do so.

Even sadder, is the situation where divorce occurrs when a bit more patience, maturity and less self-centeredness might have solved the issue better than divorce...especially when children are involved.

 

[jamespowers]

It is true. By adding to this conversation it is no skin off of my nose but it makes me sad. I see people going for the supposed gold only to find fools gold. If it glitters it is not always gold. I had a very beautiful friend who was a kept woman for lack of better words and it was disastrous.
I am not meaning we should expect very little but this navel gazing as Lizzie put it is why it is now such a mess.
I know myself since I can no longer work at the local food pantry which I did for 4 years I am getting sick of my own self introspection.
This is I have found personally what brings me the most satisfaction. Serving, serving my honey and serving my children and now grandchildren. The 4 years were exceedingly content for me when I did work the food pantry.
Jamespowers described my marriage exactly.
He fixes everything and lives to meet my needs and make life as comfortable as we can and I do the same.
Married in 1975 and this year with our move and other issues have made us cling to each other even more.
It is a beautiful thing to have someone to be your confidant and friend for so many years that you trust.
I so feel for those who do not have this and/or who has lost this.
This generation by not having these vintage ways have been greatly stolen from. Pure and simple. Not sure if it will reverse or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36bGhLkNFHM

Don't think he doesn't have his ways and me mine and I have had to beat them off with a stick a few times and cut them off at the pass but I believe in fighting to keep what you have. Don't take it for granted is so necessary. Treasure it.

I think it is not so much navel gazzing but as you kind of hinted on--too much timeon their hands. They have the time to think about things too much and not spend enough time just being thankful for what they have. When its gone then they can navel gaze further and think about what they lost. :eusa_doh:
I learned from my parents and grandparents that each partner has a sphere of influence that they are responsible for. For them it was fairly traditional and I have sort of followed in that way. All the fixing and upkeep are my "jobs." The yard is also my job. My son usually is with me when I do these things. He even helps as much as a 2 1/2 year old can. My wife generally cares for the house inside and does the cleaning. However I get to do the "summer house" as it is my "lair." I find that if you know your sphere of influence, you can stay out of each other's way and not duplicate effort or even cause arguments over it. Like my father used to say: How you start is how you end so start off doing what you are comfortable doing for the rest of your days.
That reminds me of how I got that phrase related to the spheres of influence. When my mother had to travel to Southern California for a week or so every month to take care of my great aunt's business, my father stepped in and did all the work around the house for that week. Realistically, he was far better at the laundry and a few other things than my mother was but it was not what he did normally. I told my mother that he did laundry better. My father was quick on that one. He pulled me aside and told me to cut it out because he didn't want to end up doing it and she was doing it just fine. I ended up doing my own clothes. :eusa_doh:
Back on track, marriage is a two way street. Sometimes we get exactly what we give so giving more works to your advantage in the long run.

P.S. Pretty soon we are going to need another new thread for songs about relationships.

 

[jamespowers]

If the marriage is truly bad, it's not the best path.

But, I've seen too many cases where people rush into marriage without sufficient time spent getting to know one another because marriage today is so easy to undo if it doesn't work out. And, it's so socially acceptable to do so.

Even sadder, is the situation where divorce occurrs when a bit more patience, maturity and less self-centeredness might have solved the issue better than divorce...especially when children are involved.

I've seen the same problems. Some people think that the romance will run out unless you get married tomorrow. :eusa_doh: Later they find out that they should have cooled their jets a bit and thought with their mind and not with their heart first. [huh]
I have seen many cases where time would have made the two people a bit more accustomed to each other and they regret divorcing in the first place. [huh]

 

[Foofoogal]

P.S. Pretty soon we are going to need another new thread for songs about relationships.
__________________

lol Ok. just one more. Since we had George only fitting. Been my theme song a few times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpA5Wut74MI

 

[jamespowers]

lol Ok. just one more. Since we had George only fitting. Been my theme song a few times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpA5Wut74MI

That was one written from experience. Her husband was a real infidelity expert. :eusa_doh:

 

[jamespowers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew
The quintesential one. I love the line "after all he's just a man." :eusa_doh:
She never took anything in her married life like in that song though.

 

[kyda]

to divorce or not to divorce????

As a child of a bitter divorce I have to say how much it sucks. I learnt at a very early age how to play my parents so that I could get what I wanted.
My father was very good of saying things that were not true about my mum and my step-father, and was also very good at empty promises for my brother and myself, and was very good at fighting the increase in child support as we got older. My parents divorced when I was 4, up till I was 16/17 they were still fighting and my dad was still very bitter and still can't let it go.

I promised that I would never do that to my children, that I would talk to my husband and try and work our problems out.
Divorce now is soo easy and the stigma has been lifted, and that in one way a pity but in another it is good because if either person is abusive and there are children involved it is better to get out and look after them and not stay together for the children and lead completely seperate lives

 

[Charlz]

...But it was the kind of relationship that demands a sort of -- ripening -- that so many modern disposable marriages are never allowed to attain. And for what it's worth, I think that's very sad. Especially since I'm someone who got walked out on for just such modern reasons.

Good Lord, if someone walked out on you then he must have surely been insane. Certainly his loss indeed.

My wife and I have been married 26 years. We were immature together, learned about life together, suffered together, enjoyed together, and now we are mature together. We are not as giddy romantic as we were but now we are more mellow and understanding of each other. Very old school I suppose. The quest for survival can cultivate an unusually strong bond.

 

[Foofoogal]

The quest for survival can cultivate an unusually strong bond.

lol lol lol :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
the best sentence ever on FL. lol
married in 1975 and so understand this. I am so amazed the stuff we have been thru and are still alive. lol Scares even me when I think about it. The Grace of God IMHO.