Changes in Attitude in Marriage & Divorce from the Golden Era to Now.

[59Lark]

I am not very good at this computer , hit the wrong button several times, reading the post up several up, hit home , I feel like I am the mother and the adult, in fact my girls tell me I act more like the mother, that comes from being raised by women after my dad died, and my dads death made me stick with a one sided marriage for so long, in fact I am not the one who started the break as I could not do that. no cheating involved but actually after a lot of cold years I amlooking at other women,

 

[Paisley]

It wasn't a partnership and it wasn't as Paisley said above, "Two people supposed to be helping each other." It was one-sided. I was the adult in the marriage.

I think helping each other is the first principle of all relationships, whether it's marriage, work, family, friendship or anything else. Without that, most people have little incentive to form relationships, although they might stay in them because of hope, fear, inertia, or peer pressure. Ideally, a marriage should be for mutual help, meeting certain needs, and have a long-term horizon suitable for pooling resources, raising children, retiring, and other lifelong goals. To my mind, you don't have to do all those things, but the mutual help, long-term thinking and meeting of certain needs have to be there.

 

[59Lark]

Marriage, I thought that I knew what it was, and in 28 yrs I thought I had seen most of it, mental illness, fear , cancer and spinal injury and the responsibility of having to care for partner , I took in sickness and health seriously but now I have seen its been one sided a long time and I have been wearing rose coloured glasses and caring for a mental ill parter that wants out, the plus points are my kids are 100% behind me and I know that I had done the best that anyone could do and I deserve a happier life than I have been living and I should go out and start living again 59 LARK.

 

[tonyb]

Among those of my acquaintance, the louder the defenders of "traditional" marriage the likelier they are to have been divorced themselves, serially, in some cases; the likelier they are to cheat on their spouses, and to lie about important matters (family finances, for instance).

 

[3fingers]

Tony your post reminds me of this from Emerson "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons."

 

[tonyb]

Tony your post reminds me of this from Emerson "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons."

That's a succinct way of putting it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'll find opportunity to cite it myself, I'm sure.

 

[Inkstainedwretch]

Divorce was less common in the Era, but divorce is a legal proceeding. Often incompatible spouses simply split up without divorce proceedings and might or might not find other partners. I think divorce was done mainly by people who had substantial property to divide. My maternal grandfather deserted my grandmother and their twin daughters and later he remarried. As far as I know there was no divorce. My grandmother never remarried and had no wish to.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Desertion was *extremely* common in the Era, and sometimes both parents in a family did it. A family lived across the street from my grandparents who had several children, and first the father ran off, and then the mother did too. One day the kids woke up and they were alone. The oldest daughter, who was about fifteen, quit school, got a job, and raised the rest of the family from then on. And grew into a very very bitter woman.

 

[3fingers]

My maternal great grandparents did not live together. He lived on his farm and she lived in town and operated their general store. I suppose it would have been unthinkable to them to divorce and they had some assets of value at the time. It must have been an amicable arrangement since I believe the last 2 children were born during this time. The children were well supported by their parents and wanted for nothing.

 

[GHT]

Thinking about this again, I'd be more amenable than I used to be to ending an unhappy marriage, knowing how sensitive I am about not getting along with someone. I don't have any children, and I'm too old to start a family. I've dumped some negative-nancy friends, moved away from family, and left a job working with a couple of nasty old broads, and I'm happier for all of it; that's likely colored my thinking.

That said, it seems reasonable that marriage should be more about stability than fun or fulfillment. You can get fun and fulfillment from dating. But marriage is more of an arrangement where two people are supposed to help each other.

We are childless too, but it's not something that we give a second thought too. Our fifty year marriage has been one of fun and laughter, although I admit it's not been without it's low points, but those storms, we have weathered together. My father-in-law gave me a useful piece of advice when he told me to avoid the three "A's." Abuse, addiction and adultery. Fifty years on that advice has put us in very good stead indeed. Marriage can be fun when you love one another.

 

[AmateisGal]

We are childless too, but it's not something that we give a second thought too. Our fifty year marriage has been one of fun and laughter, although I admit it's not been without it's low points, but those storms, we have weathered together. My father-in-law gave me a useful piece of advice when he told me to avoid the three "A's." Abuse, addiction and adultery. Fifty years on that advice has put us in very good stead indeed. Marriage can be fun when you love one another.

I like that advice to avoid the three A's! Unfortunately, my marriage had all three of them. Glad to be out of it.

Honestly, I don't know if I'll get married again. I sure am enjoying living by myself and doing my own thing. Yes, I miss the companionship sometimes, but I don't have to be married to have that. I'm not ruling anything out at this stage, I guess.

 

[GHT]

I like that advice to avoid the three A's! Unfortunately, my marriage had all three of them. Glad to be out of it.

Honestly, I don't know if I'll get married again. I sure am enjoying living by myself and doing my own thing. Yes, I miss the companionship sometimes, but I don't have to be married to have that. I'm not ruling anything out at this stage, I guess.

A lot of pressure to be married can be self imposed, all my friends are married so I had better be too. When you have had the sort of relationship that you have described it's little wonder that you are sceptical about marriage. We had similar pressure early on about being childless, we just ignored it, people quickly tire of asking. I wouldn't mind betting that most of us have had that sort of pressure questioning, like: You don't vote left wing/right wing, how could you? Or, you can't leave your baby without a sibling, or, how can you want another baby, you've got three already. Whatever you do, whatever you are, you can never please some, so don't try. I remember my wife's ambulance colleagues being quite spiteful because we have a desirable property, what business is it of their's?

 

[AmateisGal]

A lot of pressure to be married can be self imposed, all my friends are married so I had better be too. When you have had the sort of relationship that you have described it's little wonder that you are sceptical about marriage. We had similar pressure early on about being childless, we just ignored it, people quickly tire of asking. I wouldn't mind betting that most of us have had that sort of pressure questioning, like: You don't vote left wing/right wing, how could you? Or, you can't leave your baby without a sibling, or, how can you want another baby, you've got three already. Whatever you do, whatever you are, you can never please some, so don't try. I remember my wife's ambulance colleagues being quite spiteful because we have a desirable property, what business is it of their's?

Most everyone in my support network have been pretty understanding about my reticence toward getting married again. But it's very early days yet. Hasn't even been six months since my divorce was final. I'm in no rush!

 

[scotrace]

My wife and I separated in January 2009 (on my birthday). The divorce dragged out until February 2011. I just finished paying all the support stuff in Aril of 2017. Technically, it was just a few months shy of 20 years.

My own experience is that for awhile, several years in my case, people came into and out of my life after the divorce, and however lovely they may be, it takes awhile to be ready to really get close to someone again. I regret the hurt I've caused along the way, but it's hard to imagine things playing out otherwise, in hindsight. It just takes time to recover, sort your head out, heal, regain your footing, feel safe, and regain a sense of self trust. Without those things in place, you really can't be much of a mate to someone else. It took me several years, but I went from pacing the floor with anxiety every dreaded night to being able to sit quietly with myself and count my many life gifts. I'm finally happy, and I have someone I treasure in my life, after decades of difficulty.

The residual trauma: fear of the mail. I still dread it every damn day. For so long, the mail brought nothing but legal papers and bad news. It takes a lot of courage summoning just to open the mailbox door, every day.

 

[tonyb]

My maternal great grandparents did not live together. He lived on his farm and she lived in town and operated their general store. I suppose it would have been unthinkable to them to divorce and they had some assets of value at the time. It must have been an amicable arrangement since I believe the last 2 children were born during this time. The children were well supported by their parents and wanted for nothing.

I'm acquainted with a fellow whose parents remain married but haven't resided in the same country, let alone under the same roof, for something like 40 years.

They get along better that way. I'm left with the impression that their religion is a factor in their remaining married.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Having now been divorced as long as I was married, I find myself wondering what could possibly have motivated me ever to get married in the first place. I think for some people, "Live Alone and Like It" isn't just a book title.

 

[Harp]

A lot of pressure to be married can be self imposed, all my friends are married so I had better be too.

Earlier in life, a lovely woman proposed to me but a war intervened and subsequent peacetime adulthood has been happily single.
Professional acquaintance and personal friends have attempted the occasional match, and I have found that mature women are not reluctant
to initiate matters, but then inquire as to why I never married. The last time this happened the lady and I were in a restaurant and she was
rather cross with a "may I ask why?" I felt under cross examination in court with the judge having allowed questioning of a hostile witness.
I remembered a line from a 007 film where Bond is asked a similar query and he responded that he preferred a bachelor's freedom-a great tag-
but I suspected a plate would be thrown at me. The lady and I parted after dinner; never to meet again.
I finally stopped in at the restaurant scene of the break-fast; ordered the salmon, and laid that dinner memory to rest.

 

[tonyb]

Having now been divorced as long as I was married, I find myself wondering what could possibly have motivated me ever to get married in the first place. I think for some people, "Live Alone and Like It" isn't just a book title.

I married at age 44 to a woman I met four years earlier. I might have gotten married prior to that, was even "engaged" (after a fashion) at one point, but with that exception the women I might have married wouldn't marry me, and vice versa. I'd pretty well made my peace with it. A single fellow in his 30s needn't want for an active, um, social life. It was a mostly good existence, me and my cat in our humble home. And bopping down to Chinatown at midnight, if I wished.

 

[Fading Fast]

...

...The residual trauma: fear of the mail. I still dread it every damn day. For so long, the mail brought nothing but legal papers and bad news. It takes a lot of courage summoning just to open the mailbox door, every day.

I feel the way about my relationship with...all my healthcare providers as I had a ER visit last year and a mid-summer event just shy of that this year (two years in a row, thankfully, until then, I'd gone decades without any health issues of significance).

Just when last summer's event was winding down, this summer's ramped it all up and the mail tsunami is blowing hard again: all but unintelligible "statement of benefits" from the insurance company (which really is just a premium collection company as that is all it actually does), bills or reports from doctors, hospitals, labs and special test center - it's an ugly blizzard of misery.

I truly cringe when I get the mail and cringe again when I see anything from any of the above. It's a daily stress test.

 

[Fading Fast]

Having now been divorced as long as I was married, I find myself wondering what could possibly have motivated me ever to get married in the first place. I think for some people, "Live Alone and Like It" isn't just a book title.

I lived alone form 16 - 33 (with the exception of one year where I lived with my girlfriend at the time when I was 27) and I loved it. Part of that is I love living alone and just quietly going about my life and part of it was relief from getting out of the house I grew up in.

Then I met my present girlfriend, we moved in together when I was 33 and we are still together twenty years later. It's been great to be in a fun, healthy and supportive relationship.

For me, either single or in a good relationship seems to work - but what I couldn't and can't do is be in a stressful relationship - never could, never will. Life is too hard to not like your home life (I know that from the first 16 years of my life).

So many people preach one or the other (and want to convert you to their status - married friends always wanted to marry me off and, now, single friends preach the wonders of living alone) - but for me, either state works: single is great or together with the right person is great.