Can you help me date this item??

[hotrod_elf]

I dont know. I haven't made up my mind as to what we are going to do. I mainly bought it for a wedding in April.

 

[Lauren]

There are NO lables other than the tag that says LOt and size.

I know exactly the tag you're talking about. Those were primarily from the 50's and early 60's, I believe. Glad to help out!

 

[Amelie]

that said, I am glad I was wrong lol

 

[hotrod_elf]

Thank you Ladies. I'm really happy I did not just buy a dress from the 80's. I will so pictures of me in it with hair done and everything.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

Can Anyone Put A Date To This Dress?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/Amy_Van_doren/oldschoolamy/L1000002.jpg
Here's another photo -- much larger and clearer so you can see the detail better.

I bought this in a thrift store in 2002 and was married in it in 2005 (above.) I've always assumed it was late 30s/early 40s because of the cut and the deco/moderne designs around the collar and pockets.

But I'm absolutely uncertain. Could it be as late as the 50s? There is a vintage tag inside that reads "Top Frocks All Cotton Made In The USA" along with the size "16" (which I know for certain is what I wear in 1950s dresses!)

Does anyone know what the size scale was in the 1930s? Was it the same as the 50s? I know that a 1950s size 16 is a modern size 10. If the sizes changed from the 30s to the 50s, when did they change? This is stuff I've never really thought about, but now I'm curious to know. Perhaps it could narrow down a time bracket for my wedding dress!

Thanks.

 

[ohairas]

I'm still trying to learn to date these dresses better as well. I'm anxious to see what others say.
I'm going to say 50's because of the collar. Well.. late 40's or early 50's,lol!
Great dress, you look adorable!

Nikki

 

[Lauren]

My guess is early 50's for the same reasons as ohairas. The sleeves are also a bit different in cut than most late 30's dresses like that. It's adorable!

 

[Viviene]

Is there either a union label or a label with an RN number in the dress? That can also help date a dress.

 

[Helen Troy]

It`s got that Peter Pan-collar that was so popular in the 50s, but something about the shoulder details, with the pockets, make me want to say 40s. So I agree with the other girls, late 40s or 50s.

Great dress!

 

[ShooShooBaby]

i'm thinking early fifties as well. i have nothing to back this up though

we should keep this thread around awhile... i know i have things to post in it!

 

[Lauren]

Oh, and to answer the question about sizing, the sizes changed in the mid 1950's, but clothing and sewing patterns sizing were about the same until then. In the mid 50's the waist to bust and hips ratio was greater. There is a vintage sizing stickey at the top of the Powder Room forum with more size information.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

Is there either a union label or a label with an RN number in the dress? That can also help date a dress.

I had another look and there is an RN number on the tag. It's RN14148. There's also another number by itself: 2510.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

Oh, and to answer the question about sizing, the sizes changed in the mid 1950's, but clothing and sewing patterns sizing were about the same until then. In the mid 50's the waist to bust and hips ratio was greater. There is a vintage sizing stickey at the top of the Powder Room forum with more size information.

Thanks! For some reason I never noticed it!!

 

[jitterbugdoll]

I would say late 1940s-early 1950s as well; along with some of the other details, those rhinestone buttons were quite popular on 50s frocks. It's a darling dress!

 

[Viviene]

I checked out the RN# you gave me and nothing is coming up.

This is the formula that is available on the Ebay Vintage clothing and accessory board. What it does is tell you when the company that made your dress first received their RN#. You can't strictly use it to date your dress but to get an idea of when they first registered their RN#. The formula is:

The August 1998 is the default date when the info was added to the database. All existing RN#s got that date. (I feel like a parrot here.)

You can find the date this # was issued by using the formula given at the end of the RN thread in the Resource threads. That doesn't say when the dress was made, it says when the company got the #.

Formula, courtesy of nouveauarts:

First RN# in second series, issued in 1959: 13670

112208 is the last RN number registered.

This is the formula:

112208 (last RN# issued) - 13670 (first RN# issued= 98538

RN#s were issued for 45 years.

98538 divided by 45= 2189.7777

Average is 2189 #s issued per year.

Your RN# is 14148 so 14148-13670= 478

So your RN# was issued in 1959. So you are looking at roughly 1959 for the date of your dress. Remember that this is a guide and not absolute. Many companies kept their same RN#s for years.

Union labels are also a help in figuring out how old an item is as well. And I remember those rhinestone buttons on my grandmother's house dresses from the 1960s (I was born in 1959). I'm sure they were around a long time.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

WOW!!
I'll admit I have no idea what the purpose of an RN# was. This is a whole new area for me. What do they mean? What was the 45 year span that they were used?

And if my dress is from 1959, I was waaaaay off! But in the later 50s, the skirts started to get not-as-full so I can see now how this dress could be from then. I was going by the deco-style lines that are stitched near the collar and pockets when I dated it myself as late 30s/early 40s.

Thanks, this is interesting!

 

[Tourbillion]

That dress is probably late 50's to the very early 60's. It looks a bit like my red plaid dress from that era.

As for RN #'s, my old work, founded in the 40's has an rn # of 16716, still in use I think, but maybe they didn't get a number until later.

 

[NicolettaRose]

I'd have to go with the late 1940's, early 1950's.

 

[Viviene]

When companies registered they were assigned an RN#. They were free to use those numbers as long as they wanted to and there are companies to this day that still use their RN#'s.

Your RN# just happens to be one of the first 2189 which is why I dated it to 1959.

Here is the complete information on RN#'s and WPL#'s which are the precursor to RN#'s.

The RN & WPL Encyclopedia is a comprehensive listing of all RN & WPL
numbers issued under the Wool Products Labeling Act, the Fur Products Labeling Act and the Wool Act,Fur Act and the Textile Fiber Produacts Identification Act. The administration of these acts is performed by the Federal Trade Commission, which is the source of all numbers in this publication. WPL numbers were issued from 1941 through 1959 under the Wool Products Labeling Act. WPL numbers begin at 00101 and end at 13669. All numbers issued subsequently are RN numbers.

RN numbers were issued under the Fur Products Labeling Act from 1952
through 1959. These numbers start at 00101 and continue to 04086. Beginning in 1959, all numbers issued are RN under the combined act and commence with 13670. The final number contained in this edition is 112208. Complete rules and regulations under the Wool Act,Fur Act, and the Textile Fiber Products Identification Act can be obtained by writing to Textile Section, Division of Enforcement, Federal Trade Commission, 600
Pennsylvania Avenue. NW,Washington, D.C. 20580."

Again, remember that the WPL#s and RN#s are a guide to when the company registered. They don't dictate specifically when a dress was manufactured. The RN# is like a clue just like the label of the manufacturer is a clue. A union label is also a clue because different labels were used during different years. All this information is available on the Ebay Vintage clothing and accessory board and is pinned to the top under Vintage resources.

 

[Helen Troy]

It is difficult, but fun to try to date clothing. Reading this thread, it dawned upon me that we always think of what's "typical" for a period, but in real life not all clothing is! Not everything is modern and bears the characteristics of the period. I mean, some brands today still make clothes that is stuck in the 80s!