Buzz Aldrin Strikes Back!

[kiwilrdg]

The last time I was attacked the fellow who I arrested ended up with such a small sentence that it cost me more money to go to court than it cost him from the work he missed while in jail. It amazes me how hard it is to keep the really bad guys from causing more trouble.

Even if violence is justified doesn't mean it should be celebrated. Violence is always (at best) a necessary evil.

I agree. There was a great deal of restraint before Aldrin reached the breaking point and that is more commendable.

 

[LizzieMaine]

All the time people say to pop-offs "You keep talking to people like that, someday somebody's gonna knock your teeth in." And here's evidence of it.

I've never been a fan of the way Aldrin merchandises himself with all the cutesy show-biz stuff, much preferring the dignified, private Armstrong way. But that guy needed to be put in his place, and I'm glad Aldrin did it.

 

[ButteMT61]

All the time people say to pop-offs "You keep talking to people like that, someday somebody's gonna knock your teeth in." And here's evidence of it. I've never been a fan of the way Aldrin merchandises himself with all the cutesy show-biz stuff, much preferring the dignified, private Armstrong way. But that guy needed to be put in his place, and I'm glad Aldrin did it.

I have to say, Buzz is less "restrained' than some of his counterparts like Armstrong, Glenn, etc. But I honestly don't know how those other guys are so humble. Look at what they did, and how they did it. They are the definition of "stud". Tom Cruise in Top Gun may have been mockable, but I know a lot of pilots, and they're cocky. I can't imagine the likes of these guys not being cocky, but most appear to be not. Good on them. I'd like to think I would be if in their shoes, but I somehow doubt it lol

 

[Aerojoe]

Aldrin accommodated and made this jerk famous.

Don't miss the extended version :eeek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBesDx1WQc

I think Aldrin was way too patient. The bully is following him and harassing him from one building to another and across the street. I think Buzz finally did what he had to do [huh]

Even if violence is justified doesn't mean it should be celebrated. Violence is always (at best) a necessary evil.

I agree. There is no place here for applauses. This situation was totally regrettable. An old man being bullied across the street, people watching without doing anything, cameras recording, and he finally has to defense himself.

aerojoe: My old man can indeed take care of himself. He began life in a pretty harsh mining community in Montana. Then, on to the USAF. He's smaller than me, but tough as nails. But again, some punk does this to Pop - I'm the one that's gonna do the dirty work. My philosophy is to never start a fight, but I'll finish one if need be. Or go down trying...

As I said; He'll only leave the remains for you

 

[DesertDan]

If people had to be concerned about being punched in the mouth for being uncivil, there would be less incivility.

 

[BigFitz]

Since he's lived his entire life on the "taxpayer's dime" he's not allowed to defend himself against an idiot who's only out to leach off some conspiracy theory? Watch the long version of Aldrin being menaced for a couple of minutes by this moron. This jerk Sibrel was out to make a name for himself by spouting some lunacy(sorry, couldn't help myself). I'm glad some judges have enough sense to make the right call. Maybe some think it's ok for someone to get in your face and stay there incessantly and not leaving you alone when you've asked them repeatedly to knock it off. That's unacceptable behavior and the judge thought so as well.

 

[ButteMT61]

The statement that Buzz lived on the "taxpayer's dime" and was otherwise some hack is laughable, and speaks volumes about the guy posting it. Sibrel's brother maybe? Gotta wonder...some sort of ulterior motive there. Sibrel was like the guy that harassed the drive-in worker (female) at Chick-Fil-A. No pun intended, but the same ilk of chicken-**** "man" that I despise.

 

[kiwilrdg]

he's not allowed to defend himself against an idiot who's only out to leach off some conspiracy theory?

Since Sibrel was a taxicab driver when he was arrested in 2009 over an incident stemming from a parking dispute, he doesn't seem to do a very good job at leaching off his theory.

 

[Undertow]

..what in the heck is the point of denying the lunar landings to begin with?...

Let me step in as Devil's advocate here.

When you're growing up, your teachers tell you that our buddy Chris Columbus came through, discovered a godless piece of rock we call America, straightened out a bunch of simpering savages, and was a hero to us all. We don't learn about murder, slavery, disease, and a more or less complete disregard for the lives of an indigenous people who were doing quite well by themselves, etc. Historians, intellectuals and scholars can spend years going round and round as to what we should teach our children, but the fact remains that history belongs to the conquerors.

Now consider that as the years have progressed, and these "lunatics*" are doggedly researching various topics, they claim to have found information that changes history as we know it. It's all conspiracy theory, of course, because the modern mass media find very little incentive in investigating these things.

For instance, through the Wikileaks scandal, we found out that the US had good reason to believe there were WMDs in Iraq - we sold them to Saddam. We had the receipts. We knew exactly what chemicals he had. Boy, that doesn't look too good on our behalf does it?

Or we find out through the investigation of projects like MK Ultra, etc, that leaders of the Black Panther movement were assassinated in their homes by men either employed by, or dressed as police officers. Yikes, what happened to life and liberty there?

Or it's revealed during trial that the city of Memphis was most likely complicit in the murder of MLK, and that there were all sorts of questionable circumstances (sniper teams, government agents, etc) present. So we ask...

Why should we believe the official story? Thus, some people question.

I'm not claiming to believe the "conspiracy theories", but I certainly support people doing their own investigation, holding their own "crackpot" beliefs, speaking freely, and such. History, especially American history, is very complicated. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but you have to know that history deserves investigating. [huh]

*(sorry, couldn't help a moon pun)

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

All the time people say to pop-offs "You keep talking to people like that, someday somebody's gonna knock your teeth in." And here's evidence of it.

I've never been a fan of the way Aldrin merchandises himself with all the cutesy show-biz stuff, much preferring the dignified, private Armstrong way. But that guy needed to be put in his place, and I'm glad Aldrin did it.

Here's Buzz Aldrin being interviewed by Ali G (aka Borat, aka Sasha Baron Cohen)

[video=youtube;BheL-a5Aeis]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BheL-a5Aeis[/video]

And this Buzz Aldrin action figure came out several years ago.

 

[ButteMT61]

@ Undertow: I have no issue with anyone questioning anything - especially where the gov't is involved. It's how you go about it. I love watching shows or reading about all of the big "conspiracies". I've even changed my mind on some of them. I listen to Coast to Coast every night. it's fun, and occasionally, enlightening. Just don't do it like that chump. It doesn't add any credibility to one's cause

 

[Aerojoe]

Why should we believe the official story? Thus, some people question.

Apollo 11 mission left a laser mirror on the moon that has been in use for ages. I think the project is terminated now but the mirror can be used yet. I think it could be easily tracked when this mirror was first tested.

When you're growing up, your teachers tell you that our buddy Chris Columbus came through, discovered a godless piece of rock we call America, straightened out a bunch of simpering savages, and was a hero to us all. We don't learn about murder, slavery, disease, and a more or less complete disregard for the lives of an indigenous people who were doing quite well by themselves, etc.

History is always going to be biased depending on who's telling it. Following your example, there is only 3 decades of margin to relate Columbus with slavery, since slavery was abolished in Spain in early 16th century. So, biased too [huh]

 

[ButteMT61]

@Aerojoe: yes, they've used the mirror with lasers to show this often. I'm glad they did too. It's real science, not a trick.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There are also photographs taken recently by orbital probes of all the Apollo landing sites, with abandoned equipment and footprint and rover trails still clearly visible. No sign of Shepard's golf ball though, probably landed in the rough.

 

[Undertow]

@ Undertow: I have no issue with anyone questioning anything - especially where the gov't is involved. It's how you go about it. I love watching shows or reading about all of the big "conspiracies". I've even changed my mind on some of them. I listen to Coast to Coast every night. it's fun, and occasionally, enlightening. Just don't do it like that chump. It doesn't add any credibility to one's cause

I agree Butte. It's one thing to hold these beliefs and an entirely different thing to start attacking someone over them. Sure, if we were talking about someone's livelihood, or a cover up for thousands of deaths, or something of that kind of weight, getting in someone's face would make sense. But this guy is off his rocker.

 

[Undertow]

Apollo 11 mission left a laser mirror on the moon that has been in use for ages. I think the project is terminated now but the mirror can be used yet. I think it could be easily tracked when this mirror was first tested...History is always going to be biased depending on who's telling it. Following your example, there is only 3 decades of margin to relate Columbus with slavery, since slavery was abolished in Spain in early 16th century. So, biased too [huh]

Right, exactly. Even when there are easily defined, easily researched and corresponding facts, history is still fickle. If history were simple, murder mysteries wouldn't exist. And then where would that leave Sherlock Holmes? Playing violin and beating everyone at Cribbage, I guess.

I didn't know about that mirror. That's pretty slick!

 

[Aerojoe]

There are also photographs taken recently by orbital probes of all the Apollo landing sites, with abandoned equipment and footprint and rover trails still clearly visible.

Yeah, these pictures are great because for conspiracionists there are only two possible options. One, pictures are faked by the orbital probes. Two, somebody went to the moon and left false evidence to prove that somebody was actually on the moon during Apollo 11 Conspiracionism is like this [huh]

 

[BigFitz]

Since Sibrel was a taxicab driver when he was arrested in 2009 over an incident stemming from a parking dispute, he doesn't seem to do a very good job at leaching off his theory.

That's a good thing.

 

[Edward]

The question was asked above somewhere as to why the US would even bother faking the moon landings. It's abundantly obvious what is at stake. The height of the Cold War, Soviet Russia is the bogeyman, and a US keen to prove itself to be the world's dominant superpower, having already seen the Soviets catch up in terms of nuclear capacity, and then taken a bloody nose as the Soviets make it into space with a manned flight first*. In that context it has always seemed entirely plausible to me that the motivation for faking a moon-landing could exist. Of course it's bobbins, but it's a cracking yarn anyhow. I'm as fascinated, if not moreso, by the folks who take enormous offence at the idea as I am by those who so clearly believe it.


*Another fascinating conspiracy theory, supposedly backed up by 'top secret' Soviet era documents that somebody or other has seen, is that the Soviets made it into space much earlier than Gargarin. Supposedly, or so the story goes, he was about the twelfth man they got into orbit, but only the first they managed to bring back alive.

Well, I'm going to say it - If this was anyone other that a federal bureaucrat like 'Buzz' Aldrin, he would have been arrested immediately, prosecuted and sentenced for assault - just as you or I would have. For a judge to throw this out is, in actuality, a miscarriage of justice. The rule of law applies to each of us equally, as does the right of free speech. I'm rather ashamed at the applause and the approval for this kind of behavior from someone who has lived his entire life on the taxpayer's dime. His federal associations do not make him immune to justice. He's rich enough to hire a lawyer and pursue a defamation case or a restraining order if necessary, but to resort to assault just because of one's federal "celebrity" is unconscionable and I've felt that way since the incident ten years ago. If this wasn't a federally celebrated astronaut, I know most of you would agree with me 100%. -dixon cannon

Agreed entirely, though I can understand anyone snapping if someone has been in their face like that all day.

While I do think this is a little more extreme than my view, I do think that it is inappropriate if the same judge would have not dismissed the case if he wasn't a celebrity. Unfortunately the only way to know this is to see the judge's other rulings, which I don't think we know.

I'm surprised it even went that far. I should have thought that over here it would never have gotten beyond both parties getting a ticking off from the police and that be the end of it. If even that. [huh]

The jerk was asking to be punched- to land himself on the news- and Aldrin accommodated and made this jerk famous. We are certainly all still talking about the jerk, and I am sure that makes him really happy. I don't blame Aldrin for punching him (when you get cornered, things get out of control) and he was being bullied.

Plausible.

Even if violence is justified doesn't mean it should be celebrated. Violence is always (at best) a necessary evil.

Undeniable.

And this Buzz Aldrin action figure came out several years ago.

Ooooh! I've never seen that before. It is kinda cool. My mother would have loved that for me when we were kids - she always used to despair of how all of our toys (as the vast majority of all toys marketed for boys in the Eighties were) revolved around warfare, death and destruction.

 

[Noirblack]

There is a question here of whether Buzz's not being punished for punching this man was a miscarriage of justice. The most important information we have here is that the moon landing denier's case was thrown out in civil court:

"The news anchor said that the guy sued Aldrin but the judge threw it out"

Was this ever even addressed in a criminal context? What I mean is were the police called? Was there an arrest? Were charges laid? Unless all that happened it is inaccurate to call the law suit being thrown out a miscarriage of justice. Even if the police had been called in, it was just one punch to a guy who was being aggressive. I figure any cop would know that unless the denier had sustained some physical injury nobody would prosecute the case. This would be true for someone like Buzz Aldrin but also for an unknown person. if person A punches person B, an B isn't physically harmed why would the police lay charges? Wouldn't they just separate them and make sure the hostilities were over? Of course, I will admit that it all depends on the officer who responds to the call.

Furthermore, the denier had his day in court and the judge threw his lawsuit out. I'm sure the judge had a better understanding of the evidence than any of us, so if a judge familiar with the case decides it isn't worthy of hearing, isn't this part of the justice system? The guy had his day in court and lost very quickly. How is that a miscarriage of justice? You can's say that just because the denier lost on that day he didn't get justice. Just because you bring a law suit forward doesn't mean you should automatically win it and justice fails you if you don't win it.