Buying hat blocks--what does one need to know?

[belfastboy]

This is incredibly helpful. Thanks so much. That’s kind of what I expected, but I had a feeling these hat block numbers were used at some point as a kind of catalogue number for a large reference system. I’ve read about the 51 and 52 blocks, which made me think a hat block manufacturer created each number as a quick reference to a specific form and that blocks 1 - 50 must also exist. Anyway, thanks for the link to the PDF. I’ll definitely read this.

Where might be the best place to buy a kind of starting kit? I’d like to find a 51 block with flange strand and the basic tools. And is there a go to flange that is considered a favourite like the 51 and 52 blocks?

Thanks for the reply!

Have you determined if you are a long oval or regular oval? I think price wise Randal at RA on Etsy has the best prices although they have jumped up recently. There are many block makers that charge about the same price as RA but they are in wood whereas RA is plastics. But they are also located in the UK and Europe so shipping is the killer. I chose to buy out of Poland as I could wait and I really wanted the wood blocks...aesthetics trumped price. I think RA offers free shipping in the US. It is a good idea to buy the block and flange to match. I ordered a set of blocks from Poland to match a set of vintage flanges. It was doable but required me tracing the ID of each flange and sending to the block maker. I am trusting it will work but won't know until I receive the blocks in a few weeks. Our Humanshoes makes a kit with Tollicker, puller and pusher downer. He also makes the most affordable rounding jack I have come across. I would suggest you check out his offering....he makes great tools.

 

[Adam L]

I can't speak to all manufactured hat blocks on the numbers. The blocks that I have use 3 sets of numbers and they refer to the crown height, the block style, and size. So my block that says 5 3/4, 52, 7 1/8 means that it is a style 52 with a 5 3/4 inch open crown height, for a 7 1/8 hat size. Please note, that I wouldn't full trust the hat size. I measured all my hat block circumferences and then know to account for a sweatband that I want 1/4 inch larger than the persons head.

Ok, good to know. Thanks so much for the reply. This actually brings up one more question. Is there a similar convention for flange sizes? Does a 7 3/8 flange pair with a 7 3/8 block? Or do you have to size up because of the thickness of the felt?

 

[belfastboy]

Ok, good to know. Thanks so much for the reply. This actually brings up one more question. Is there a similar convention for flange sizes? Does a 7 3/8 flange pair with a 7 3/8 block? Or do you have to size up because of the thickness of the felt?

The ones I have seen on Ebay are matched...a 7 3/8" block with a 7 3/8 flange . The blocks and flanges are also each marked as long oval, etc. As the shape matters you need to match the LO block with a LO flange. I have a 7 3/8" regular oval block but it will not fit into a long oval 7 3/8 flange as the shape is different enough to not allow it to fit.

 

[Adam L]

Have you determined if you are a long oval or regular oval? I think price wise Randal at RA on Etsy has the best prices although they have jumped up recently. There are many block makers that charge about the same price as RA but they are in wood whereas RA is plastics. But they are also located in the UK and Europe so shipping is the killer. I chose to buy out of Poland as I could wait and I really wanted the wood blocks...aesthetics trumped price. I think RA offers free shipping in the US. It is a good idea to buy the block and flange to match. I ordered a set of blocks from Poland to match a set of vintage flanges. It was doable but required me tracing the ID of each flange and sending to the block maker. I am trusting it will work but won't know until I receive the blocks in a few weeks. Our Humanshoes makes a kit with Tollicker, puller and pusher downer. He also makes the most affordable rounding jack I have come across. I would suggest you check out his offering....he makes great tools.

Thanks for the reply. I saw the RA blocks—they look very neat, but I was a little worried about the plastic and how it’ll stand up to heat. I’ll check out the Humanshoes kit you’re suggesting here, as well. It’d be nice to find something that includes a 51 or 52 block, a pusher and puller downer, flange and stand, and rounding jack—just a whole bundle—but I guess that kind of takes some of the magic away from the search, as well.
Anyone know if there are any threads on fur felt suppliers that are worth looking at? That’ll be my next stop here. Thanks for all the input!

 

[Adam L]

The ones I have seen on Ebay are matched...a 7 3/8" block with a 7 3/8 flange . The blocks and flanges are also each marked as long oval, etc. As the shape matters you need to match the LO block with a LO flange. I have a 7 3/8" regular oval block but it will not fit into a long oval 7 3/8 flange as the shape is different enough to not allow it to fit.

I have not determined if I’m long or regular oval. I was going to bet on the regular oval just because it seems to be the standard. I have a Stetson Open Road that fits quite nicely. I imagine it’s a regular oval shape, but I guess I’m not confident there either. Is there a simple process for determining whether your long oval or regular oval?

 

[Adam L]

The #51 or #52 is a style number. The #52 is a classic straight sided tall crowned hat. Go to "Leon Drexler.com "and peruse his site. I can't remember but one of his drop down menu items shows a profile of the 4 main styles of block he uses. You also need to know your head shape. Are you a regular oval, a long oval or an extreme long oval? I use pipe cleaners joined together then wrap them around your head at the point the hat would sit. Join the ends together and twist tight (ish) Gently slip it off your head and voila you have an outline of your head shape. Post the inner dimensions front to back and side to side. Then I can tell you if you are a reg oval or long or???. Secondly Google YouTube Art Fawcett for a fantastic 30 minutes video that condenses Art's 8 hour process of making a hat. I have more to say but my wife is waiting for me. If others' don't answer your questions I will fill in some blanks later....along with suggestions where to buy your block.

Oh man, I missed this post. Thanks so much. I’ve been piecing my hat making knowledge together from different clips, but I haven’t found anything that goes into the complete details. Your replies have been so helpful. Thanks. Now, I’ll go see if I can find some pipe cleaners. Thanks again!

 

[jlee562]

I have not determined if I’m long or regular oval. I was going to bet on the regular oval just because it seems to be the standard. I have a Stetson Open Road that fits quite nicely. I imagine it’s a regular oval shape, but I guess I’m not confident there either. Is there a simple process for determining whether your long oval or regular oval?

This a modern Stetson we're talking about? It's regular oval by default.

 

[belfastboy]

Oh man, I missed this post. Thanks so much. I’ve been piecing my hat making knowledge together from different clips, but I haven’t found anything that goes into the complete details. Your replies have been so helpful. Thanks. Now, I’ll go see if I can find some pipe cleaners. Thanks again!

Dollar Store!

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks for the reply. I saw the RA blocks—they look very neat, but I was a little worried about the plastic and how it’ll stand up to heat. I’ll check out the Humanshoes kit you’re suggesting here, as well. It’d be nice to find something that includes a 51 or 52 block, a pusher and puller downer, flange and stand, and rounding jack—just a whole bundle—but I guess that kind of takes some of the magic away from the search, as well.
Anyone know if there are any threads on fur felt suppliers that are worth looking at? That’ll be my next stop here. Thanks for all the input!

I don't know of any comprehensive threads on felt suppliers. I will send you a PM tomorrow as I have just gone through the process.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

Thanks for the reply. I saw the RA blocks—they look very neat, but I was a little worried about the plastic and how it’ll stand up to heat. I’ll check out the Humanshoes kit you’re suggesting here, as well. It’d be nice to find something that includes a 51 or 52 block, a pusher and puller downer, flange and stand, and rounding jack—just a whole bundle—but I guess that kind of takes some of the magic away from the search, as well.
Anyone know if there are any threads on fur felt suppliers that are worth looking at? That’ll be my next stop here. Thanks for all the input!

@Adam L I suggest you look at the thread on sourcing hat blocks, I just updated the thread. Here is a link to that post that has a list of sources https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/sourcing-hat-blocks.86228/page-4#post-2677450 It includes The Kacprzak Family Studio Hat Blocks that @belfastboy purchased from.

I can personally recommend Hatters Supply House in Colorado, previously owned by Mark Havens who outsourced the work to a local woodworker (Kip) who has now taken over the business. I have purchased 16 flanges and 1 hat block to date and can attest to the work. I just put on order today 1 more hat block and 2 more flanges. Leads times are currently 2 months out. Blocks are CNC routed to shape and hand finished. Pricing is about $175 and if you want it sealed and finished then add $15.

I have two rounding jacks, my personal favorite was made by @humanshoes, which like @belfastboy I can recommend.

As you start buying hat blocks, I suggest you pay attention to the hole pattern on the underside of the blocks. Initially you will probably pounce them by hand but you may want to build yourself a hat spinner and in that case the pattern on the bottom for hole placement will matter, not all blocks can be put on a hat spinner and some cannot be put on a vintage crown iron because they weren't milled for that use. Most of my hat blocks were from JW of JWHats and have a specific pattern and I built my hat spinner to match, now when I purchase new blocks from Hatters Supply House, Kip is kind enough to keep my hole pattern profile saved so it can be reproduced and that is an important consideration. Having said that, you can definitely "mod" your blocks after the fact to support a hat spinner. Somewhere on this forum @humanshoes posted a spinner that he made and I posted a spinner that I made.

Welcome to hat making and enjoy the process.

 

[T Jones]

Thanks for the reply. I saw the RA blocks—they look very neat, but I was a little worried about the plastic and how it’ll stand up to heat. I’ll check out the Humanshoes kit you’re suggesting here, as well. It’d be nice to find something that includes a 51 or 52 block, a pusher and puller downer, flange and stand, and rounding jack—just a whole bundle—but I guess that kind of takes some of the magic away from the search, as well.
Anyone know if there are any threads on fur felt suppliers that are worth looking at? That’ll be my next stop here. Thanks for all the input!

I do tons of hat conversions and refurbs. I have vintage wooden blocks, a few plastic hat shapers, one custom wood block from Hatters Supply House of Colorado that wasn't even close to what I wanted, and a beautiful block from one of our own members, Rockwater, that is so nicely done and looks like a work of art that I just can't bring myself to using it, and my most recent block is the plastic RA, which has become my favorite block shape. I sent Randall pictures and measurements of what I wanted and he nailed the profile perfectly. I've done about 4 or 5 hat conversions on it so far and I haven't had a bit of trouble with heat or anything else. It still looks like it did when I first got it. I used the plastic hat shapers for years because I preferred the straight sided dome shape over the profiles of my vintage wooden blocks. I had no issues at all with heat on the plastic hat shapers and if the plastic hat shapers can hold up under years of applying heat to them, the RA certainly will. Another thing I like with the RA is that Randall uses a 3D imaging process that perfectly captures the profile you want, especially if there's a particular custom shape you're looking for. For hand tools, Rick Walker @humanshoes is the go to guy for me. I bought a Rounding Jack from him and I love it! It's one of my favorite tools. Another of my favorite tools is a band block that Rockwater made for me. I almost hate using that one too because it's so nicely made. The tools I use most are my custom RA block, a vintage #810 brim flange, (I also have several flanges from Hatters Supply House of Colorado but my vintage #810 is my favorite), my Rockwater band block, and my rounding jack by Rick Walker, also my flange stand from Hatters Supply House, so that's five favorite tools, actually, that I use most. Those are my favorites. As far as heat being applied to the RA block, I don't see where there'll be any problems. It's all solid and seems durable.

 

[Adam L]

I’m almost sold on the Randal Alan hat block—it’s in my cart waiting for me to checkout. But I’m just wondering: have any of you guys purchased blocks from hat blocks Australia? They make this beginners kit with flange stand, flange, 152 hat block (which I’m assuming is a No. 52 form), as well as spinner, rounding jack, puller and pusher downer and foot tollicker. It’s around the same price if I price each of these out separately. So, I guess it comes down to wood or plastic. This group has been so helpful, I thought I’d see if anyone has any thoughts? Is there a preference for either of these materials?

Here’s the link to the kit:

https://www.hatblocksaustralia.com.au/flange-brims

 

[belfastboy]

I’m almost sold on the Randal Alan hat block—it’s in my cart waiting for me to checkout. But I’m just wondering: have any of you guys purchased blocks from hat blocks Australia? They make this beginners kit with flange stand, flange, 152 hat block (which I’m assuming is a No. 52 form), as well as spinner, rounding jack, puller and pusher downer and foot tollicker. It’s around the same price if I price each of these out separately. So, I guess it comes down to wood or plastic. This group has been so helpful, I thought I’d see if anyone has any thoughts? Is there a preference for either of these materials?

Here’s the link to the kit:

https://www.hatblocksaustralia.com.au/flange-brims

On individual items I found them expensive and being cheap and a constrained budget I preferred to shop around. I made my own spinner, flange stand, & tollicker. Bought blocks from Poland, other tools from Humanshoes, and flanges on Ebay. I bought wood as it worked out about the same price as the plastic from RA RA wanted a lot of money to ship to Canada where as you will get free shipping being in the US. I think wood is just nicer on the aesthetics front over the plastic. TJones loves his blocks from RA so if you take the aesthetics out of the equation it is probably a push.

 

[Adam L]

Thanks for the thoughts. Maybe I’ll give it one more week and see what I can find on eBay. I’m actually in Ontario, so I can see the shipping is going to hurt.

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks for the thoughts. Maybe I’ll give it one more week and see what I can find on eBay. I’m actually in Ontario, so I can see the shipping is going to hurt.

What size hat do you wear?

 

[Adam L]

I wear a 7 3/8.

 

[belfastboy]

7 1/2 blocks and flanges don't come up very often on Ebay and even less often as a set. There is (was) a 7 3/8 set but the flange was for a narrow brim. The upside to buying the RA is you get a block/flange that match as a set. There is a block maker out of the UK that charges 55 lb Sterling for a wooden block. I will see if I can dig up his contact info.

 

[belfastboy]

The ebay seller is lovenudger out of the UK but I checked his pricing...55 lb sterling but he wants another 40 lb for shipping so no real saving there.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I found this new addition at Hatter’s Supply House of Colorado interesting:

 

[T Jones]

Speaking of hat blocks, I'm working on another '50s era 3X Stetson Western conversion, (on the right). I still need to flange the brim and sew on the matching 3/8 thin ribbon and bow work. I originally converted it on a different block and wasn't happy with the block shape and low 5 1/4 open crown. I reblocked it on my Randall Alan and raised the open crown height to 5 5/8 inches. I'll have more on this hat when it's finished.

The sides and front and back are totally vertical with no taper. The top is rounded.