Best MA-1 repro?

[Big J]

Ok, so there's a few threads about this or that MA-1, but who makes the best repro?

I'm guessing you're all going to say Buzz Ricksons, but is that really it for high spec reproductions?

 

[Justhandguns]

I would say Real Mccoys, at least in terms of prices. I would think Buzz is 2nd.

 

[Doctor Damage]

https://www.realmccoys.co.jp/catalog/products/detail.php?product_id=3297&pg=3

only USD$695

my brain would be asking how many genuine vintage jackets could you get for that price, but I guess the sort of people who want a serious repro are thinking differently!

 

[Edward]

There are several factors at work here, I'd speculate. One is that you're dealing primarily with Japanese labels, where a high price just seems to be the order of the day (of course the quality is also great - probably, in most cases, better than the run of the mill produced in a rush to government contract standards?). Then the fact that you don't have the range of choice with these nylons. You want an A2, you can find a reasonable stab at accuracte looks from the WPG up to the perfect recreations by Goodwear, and all price points in between. Once you get to the later, nylon era jackets.... not so much. I guess they've just never appeared in the "right" cool films - or, more likely, they just don't pertain to a period of military equipment that has been culturally fetishised in the way WW2 has for decades now. It's a bugger, cause I know I'd love a half-decent repro of the very first c1957 issue of the MA1, but can't justify the cost of the Japanese jackets. I might well compromise with an 80s era ground crew jacket at some point - close enough in look and absent the orange lining (which I've always found somewhat obnoxious). For us bigger guys that need the XL size, alas it seems that very few affordable originals come along that don't have badly damaged knits / significant UV damage / cigarette burns in the nylon / all of the above, hence the desire for a repro.

 

[Big J]

Thanks for your comments guys.
I hadn't thought of McCoys- they do indeed make a nice repro MA-1!
However, just like Rickson's, for me it's a sizing problem.
The price is also a problem (for that money, I'd rather buy leather).
I would buy an original jacket if it wasn't for the fact that I never see anything in my size, and that original jackets seem to be a little fragile due to age.
The Japanese repros are great, but why do they insist with the name tags with such silly made-up names?
I guess I'll just have to buy an Alpha to do my Maj. T. J. Kong thing.

 

[Justhandguns]

Thanks for your comments guys.
I hadn't thought of McCoys- they do indeed make a nice repro MA-1!
However, just like Rickson's, for me it's a sizing problem.
The price is also a problem (for that money, I'd rather buy leather).
I would buy an original jacket if it wasn't for the fact that I never see anything in my size, and that original jackets seem to be a little fragile due to age.
The Japanese repros are great, but why do they insist with the name tags with such silly made-up names?
I guess I'll just have to buy an Alpha to do my Maj. T. J. Kong thing.

Absolutely agree, I struggle to convince myself buying the McCoy's L-2B, with the same amount of money, I got myself a nice A-2 repro n HH at that time. I have to say it is still very tempting, especially the NOS zippers that Buzz or McCoy's use on their nylon jacket.

But, if you are residing in Japan, you probably have to options to go for used jackets, most of the Japanese owners take extremely good care of their jackets and they usually look like new.

 

[Edward]

I can see Buzz money easier in a b15 or such... in any of the L2s... basically nylon windbreakers... it just feels they're taking the proverbial (even though, logically, there's about the same labour and skill involved as in an A2).

 

[zhz]

The problem, unlike leather jacket, people always think the nylon/cotton jacket does not worth that much money. £400-500 for a leather jacket sounds reasonable, but for a repro MA-1/B-15 is sounds a bit crazy.

 

[Justhandguns]

The problem, unlike leather jacket, people always think the nylon/cotton jacket does not worth that much money. £400-500 for a leather jacket sounds reasonable, but for a repro MA-1/B-15 is sounds a bit crazy.

Well, the point is, I can wear my A-2 at a rather formal occasion but not the MA-1 or B-15. The vintage age is also another factor as good conditioned nylons from the 60s'-70s' are relative easy to find. At the moment as we post here, minty real deals are probably still selling cheaper than a repro Buzz.

 

[Edward]

Probably true still for the later jackets, yeah.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think I'd pay more for a reproduction flight jacket than the cost of a good original, be that jacket leather or nylon. Granted, original, size XL MA-1s and L-2bs aren't as plentiful as they were a decade ago, but they're still out there. And original knits are also frequently available on eBay. Further, the later (mid-seventies) nylon jackets are just as good in terms of quality as the first edition originals. A 1972 Alpha MA-1 is made just as well, using equally good materials, as a 1953 Lion Uniform. In fact, my personal favorite MA-1 in terms of looks, fit and quality, is the 1967 Satellite.

There may come a day when a person wanting a good, wearable, military nylon flight jacket will have to look a reproduction. I think that day may be here with respect to the A-2. But, in my estimation, it’s still a long way off for the MA-1 or the L-2B.

AF

 

[Doctor Damage]

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think I'd pay more for a reproduction flight jacket than the cost of a good original, be that jacket leather or nylon. Granted, original, size XL MA-1s and L-2bs aren't as plentiful as they were a decade ago, but they're still out there. And original knits are also frequently available on eBay. Further, the later (mid-seventies) nylon jackets are just as good in terms of quality as the first edition originals. A 1972 Alpha MA-1 is made just as well, using equally good materials, as a 1953 Lion Uniform. In fact, my personal favorite MA-1 in terms of looks, fit and quality, is the 1967 Satellite.

There may come a day when a person wanting a good, wearable, military nylon flight jacket will have to look a reproduction. I think that day may be here with respect to the A-2. But, in my estimation, it’s still a long way off for the MA-1 or the L-2B.

Based on the vintage jackets available from these guys (below), who seem to be pricing them from $150 to $325, and some decent condition jackets on e-Bay that are priced in the $200 to $300 range, I think you're right.

http://www.bellsaviation.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BA&Category_Code=clothjackets

 

[Big J]

Just been looking at Ricksons on History Preservation and ELC linked site. MASSIVE price differences between the US site and the UK site.

 

[Justhandguns]

Just been looking at Ricksons on History Preservation and ELC linked site. MASSIVE price differences between the US site and the UK site.

Well, that means either Eastman (Buzz's dealer in the UK & probably Europe) or HMRC are making a lot more £ than our allies.

 

[Edward]

Just my 2 cents, but I don't think I'd pay more for a reproduction flight jacket than the cost of a good original, be that jacket leather or nylon. Granted, original, size XL MA-1s and L-2bs aren't as plentiful as they were a decade ago, but they're still out there. And original knits are also frequently available on eBay. Further, the later (mid-seventies) nylon jackets are just as good in terms of quality as the first edition originals. A 1972 Alpha MA-1 is made just as well, using equally good materials, as a 1953 Lion Uniform. In fact, my personal favorite MA-1 in terms of looks, fit and quality, is the 1967 Satellite.

That's good to know re the later jackets.... I'm not so hot on the orange liner in the MA1, which is what turned me on to the repro market (broadly speaking, my interest in flying jackets ends in 1959 or just before it), but I've been looking at late issue N2Bs (as well as keeping my eye out for the right N2A), and they certainly are available, unissued, in the later ones. How's the faux wolf trim on those? Can't see any difference visually, if it does the job as well....

There may come a day when a person wanting a good, wearable, military nylon flight jacket will have to look a reproduction. I think that day may be here with respect to the A-2. But, in my estimation, it’s still a long way off for the MA-1 or the L-2B.

That's the impression I get from eBay, yes - providing you're happy with a later, orange-liner MA1. It'll be interesting to see how it goes over time. At the minute, I think a lot of it has to do with them simply being from a different era, one absent a conflict that has become as fetishised in pop culture as WW2, but all it might take will be another slew of big budget Hollywood runs at Vietnamand who knows? Or maybe evne the passage of time, and earlier jackets becoming unbuyable for the average mortal. I know at one time there were those who sneered at CBS's 70s Fenders, then suddenly nobody could afford even a post-CBS buyout Sixties model, and the market looked again at the 70s guitars.... half of which were already in the hands of forward thinking collectors in Japan...

Just been looking at Ricksons on History Preservation and ELC linked site. MASSIVE price differences between the US site and the UK site.

Which way round? I assume it's a case of good, old-fashioned Rip-Off Britain yet again? Could well be HMRC causing the difference... a long time ago I compared the cost of importing a Buzz B15 from HP to buying through ELC... by the time I accounted for import tax and shipping, there wa no price difference (started off with around a GBP100 difference). Factor in the ease of return within the UK if there was any problem, and it wasn't worth it... Unless, of course, you wanted a model that ELC don't import, or were out of stock on. As I understand it, ELC only take one big delivery a year, and that's it for twelve months (sure I read that on here somewhere). The other factor is that ELC are the main European importer for Buzz, but I get the impression they don't carry models that they reproduce themselves (understandable, really), which is why you don't tend to see Buzz B10s and pre-nylon B15 available in the UK.

 

[Doctor Damage]

That's the impression I get from eBay, yes - providing you're happy with a later, orange-liner MA1. It'll be interesting to see how it goes over time. At the minute, I think a lot of it has to do with them simply being from a different era, one absent a conflict that has become as fetishised in pop culture as WW2, but all it might take will be another slew of big budget Hollywood runs at Vietnamand who knows? Or maybe evne the passage of time, and earlier jackets becoming unbuyable for the average mortal. I know at one time there were those who sneered at CBS's 70s Fenders, then suddenly nobody could afford even a post-CBS buyout Sixties model, and the market looked again at the 70s guitars.... half of which were already in the hands of forward thinking collectors in Japan...

As far as I know, every feature film made about the Viet Nam war has focused on ground pounders, not pilots or airmen, and always in the steaming jungles never in the cooler uplands. Therefore no L2Bs or even MA-1s have ever been seen on the big screen in recent, widely circulated films. As Atticus and others will point out there were a few older films from the 50s which show them, but those films are not recent and it's probably safe to say are forgotten. The only relatively recent movie which shows an MA-1 in a flattering light is McQueen's The Hunter and finding a copy of that requires some work, plus it's been panned as his worst film (it's not). As for the Korean War, it didn't really exist did it? Certainly no one remembers it other than vets. I don't think we'll be seeing any major feature films about Korea. But you never know.

 

[Edward]

As far as I know, every feature film made about the Viet Nam war has focused on ground pounders, not pilots or airmen, and always in the steaming jungles never in the cooler uplands. Therefore no L2Bs or even MA-1s have ever been seen on the big screen in recent, widely circulated films. As Atticus and others will point out there were a few older films from the 50s which show them, but those films are not recent and it's probably safe to say are forgotten. The only relatively recent movie which shows an MA-1 in a flattering light is McQueen's The Hunter and finding a copy of that requires some work, plus it's been panned as his worst film (it's not). As for the Korean War, it didn't really exist did it? Certainly no one remembers it other than vets. I don't think we'll be seeing any major feature films about Korea. But you never know.

I'd agree - certainly matches my memory of all the Eighties Nam flicks I've seen. Korea.... the only thing I can recall having seen that was set there is Mash (though it, too, was really about Vietnam). This probably won't change, at least for mainstream cinema, these later conflicts lacking the easy goodguy / badguy categorisation of WW2.

 

[Atticus Finch]

The MA-1 was America's third longest running military flight jacket, and it may have been America's most popular military flight jacket...but it never really had a war to call its own. Even though the B-15 is symbolic of the Korean War, it didn’t become the MA-1 until after hostilities there had ended…and it was gone by the next cool weather war, Gulf I.

Vietnam? Yes, perhaps technically. Air Force and Army aircrew were certainly issued MA-1s during that era, but nobody actually wore them in Vietnam…at least not enough for the jacket to become an icon of that air war. While the L-2b was popular among jet crew, the MA-1 was just too heavy to be worn in Vietnam's warm climate. And, besides, high altitude aircraft all had heaters by then.

AF

 

[Seb Lucas]

The only relatively recent movie which shows an MA-1 in a flattering light is McQueen's The Hunter and finding a copy of that requires some work, plus it's been panned as his worst film (it's not)

A more recent movie would be Bull Durham. Is it a repo? That's how I found out about these jackets in Australia. Pre-internet.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Is it a repo? View attachment 14316

I think its an early eighties, issued Alpha.

BTW, I used to hang out at that ball park in my days between undergrad and law school. That was pre-movie. So few people would attend the week night games, we could stretch out on the bleachers like they were living room couches. Then the movie was released and the place became a crowded zoo.

I will say this about the movie, though. It really captured the atmosphere of the Durham Athletic Park and the real Durham Bulls games back in the mid-eighties. It was a great place to spend a summer evening.

AF