Best MA-1 repro?

[Smithy]

As for the Korean War, it didn't really exist did it? Certainly no one remembers it other than vets. I don't think we'll be seeing any major feature films about Korea. But you never know.

There were a few in the 50s but as a conflict it has been largely (and I would say criminally) overlooked film-wise. Obviously it's overshadowed by WWII and Vietnam but it was also a very "nasty" war that really ended in stalemate. I've seen a few accounts by WWII veterans saying that they thought the fighting in Korea was nastier and far more savage.

One film I would love to see remade is "The Hunters". It's based (and let's just say "loosely" would be an understatement) on Salter's novel of the same name. It's worth seeing the original, not for the storyline but for the F-86 footage and it is 50s nylon flight jacket porn. But I want to see it remade faithfully to the novel as Salter's book is IMHO one of the best post-war American novels. Salter also knew what he was talking about - he was a F-86 combat pilot during the Korean War. Magnificent book, if anyone here hasn't read it, I'd urge them to grab a copy.

 

[Big J]

IIRC, L2B was about 200 GBP more expensive from the UK site than the US site.
The Hunters was an excellent film for it's era, but will likely never be remade.

HOWEVER!
I must protest this notion that the MA-1 'missed it's war'.
It's 'war' was the cold war. B-52's and failsafe points, and all that.

 

[Edward]

IIRC, L2B was about 200 GBP more expensive from the UK site than the US site.

Ouch. At £200 it'd be a stretch, but I think I could talk myself into it....

 

[Atticus Finch]

IIRC, L2B was about 200 GBP more expensive from the UK site than the US site.
The Hunters was an excellent film for it's era, but will likely never be remade.

HOWEVER!
I must protest this notion that the MA-1 'missed it's war'.
It's 'war' was the cold war. B-52's and failsafe points, and all that.

I think you are absolutely right! I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. The MA-1's war was much larger and longer than just Vietnam...

AF

 

[Big J]

I think you are absolutely right! I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. The MA-1's war was much larger and longer than just Vietnam...

AF

Glad you agree with me!

 

[Big J]

Thanks for the link Doc!
Bells has loads of interesting things!

Now, if one of you learned gentlemen could tell me what a size 48 equates to in issue MA-1 jackets sized as S/M/L, or XL? I'm guessing XL, or would that only be up to around a size 46?

 

[mihai]

Thanks for the link Doc!
Bells has loads of interesting things!

Now, if one of you learned gentlemen could tell me what a size 48 equates to in issue MA-1 jackets sized as S/M/L, or XL? I'm guessing XL, or would that only be up to around a size 46?

I am a size 42 in mil G1 jackets (chest 21.5 - 22 inches) - fit snug in the chest with just a t-shirt
Here are some measurements:
- 1969 Alpha MA-1 marked as M measuring 24-24.8 inches at chest - this fits just fine with little space for some light sweater
- 60s MA-1 marked as L measuring 25-25.5 inches
- from eBay listings, a mil spec XL is about 26 inches

I guess that size L would do as fitted 48, but only with a slim waist. Otherwise for a more massive build, an XL would be better. Keep in mind also that the jacket is quite short. I am 6'2" and is a bit on the extreme, I need to wear high waist pants.

I also have 3 vintage military N3-B jackets (60s N-2B size L, 70s N-2B size M, 80s N-2B size M) and I think the fit / measurements are consistent with MA-1 ones described above.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Thanks for the link Doc!
Bells has loads of interesting things!

Now, if one of you learned gentlemen could tell me what a size 48 equates to in issue MA-1 jackets sized as S/M/L, or XL? I'm guessing XL, or would that only be up to around a size 46?

There is some variation in sizing among the various makers. And, generally speaking, the early 'seventies jackets are a tad larger than those made in the 'fifties and 'sixties. But, yes. I wear a size 48R suit and I need size XL in vintage MA-1s. I would say a size large MA-1 would translate to about a size 44 civilian suit.

AF

 

[mihai]

There is some variation in sizing among the various makers. And, generally speaking, the early 'seventies jackets are a tad larger than those made in the 'fifties and 'sixties. But, yes. I wear a size 48R suit and I need size XL in vintage MA-1s. I would say a size large MA-1 would translate to about a size 44 civilian suit.

AF

I wear a 42 civilian suit and size M in vintage military MA-1

 

[mihai]

Currently I do not own a MA-1, N-2B reproduction but only vintage military ones. Seeing few people wearing some commercial Alpha MA-1 repros, pictures with them (MA-1, N-2b) I have the impression that their cut differs from the vintage military ones. I think most notable difference is that the commercial ones look longer in the body(body is way shorter than sleeves in vintage mil ones). Can anyone confirm if it's the case or not?

 

[mihai]

That's good to know re the later jackets.... I'm not so hot on the orange liner in the MA1, which is what turned me on to the repro market (broadly speaking, my interest in flying jackets ends in 1959 or just before it), but I've been looking at late issue N2Bs (as well as keeping my eye out for the right N2A), and they certainly are available, unissued, in the later ones. How's the faux wolf trim on those? Can't see any difference visually, if it does the job as well....

I own 3 vintage mil N2Bs:
- 60s sz L 100% wool interlining, hood lining 100% wool, real coyote fur trim hood - feels heavy, consistent, sturdy, nicely filled throughout, smells interesting
- '74 sz M 60% wool, 40% cotton interlining, white synthetic fur trim hood - feels heavy, consistent but this aged synthetic fur trim smells strange, has rough texture and piles giving a cheap overall look. I'm considering a replacement of it.
- early 80s size M, 100% polyester, hood lining white synthetic which is higher quality than '74 one has finer fibers (closer to natural fur). However the jacket is very lightweight compared to earlier ones, outer shell is thinner and more shiny. The jacket has a deflated look, it's not as solid, lacks that consistent look of earlier ones. Current N-2B mainstream replicas (Alpha, Spiewalk...) seem closer to this later model I guess after seeing pictures with them.

 

[Edward]

Yes, outside of the Japanese repros, they do all seem to go for the full poly. Shame - I definitely prefer the earlier spec. When did the poly fill come in? I've looked at later N2Bs as they look remarkably cheaper than earlier ones (snd are available in my size), but I'd much rather have at least the wool /cotton interfacing.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Yes, outside of the Japanese repros, they do all seem to go for the full poly. Shame - I definitely prefer the earlier spec. When did the poly fill come in? I've looked at later N2Bs as they look remarkably cheaper than earlier ones (snd are available in my size), but I'd much rather have at least the wool /cotton interfacing.

I've never seen an E-series MA-1 with poly insulation. I've never seen an F-series MA-1 without it. This is but a guess based on personal observations, but I think poly insulation began with the F-series jackets in the early '80s.

AF

 

[Doctor Damage]

There is some variation in sizing among the various makers. And, generally speaking, the early 'seventies jackets are a tad larger than those made in the 'fifties and 'sixties. But, yes. I wear a size 48R suit and I need size XL in vintage MA-1s. I would say a size large MA-1 would translate to about a size 44 civilian suit.

And to add to that, as Atticus has noted in other threads the vintage jackets are all equivalent to "regular" length, or even "short" in some cases. If you typically need "long" length clothing then you might have trouble getting a vintage jacket to fit, or even the Japanese repros which are so authentic that they are short too (at least judging by the measurements I've seen). So the later 100% synthetic semi-civilian jackets might not be as desirable, but they are a bit more generous and the poly insulation doesn't shrink (although I'm sure there's a dry cleaner out there that's so incompetant that they could shrink it).

 

[Edward]

I've never seen an E-series MA-1 with poly insulation. I've never seen an F-series MA-1 without it. This is but a guess based on personal observations, but I think poly insulation began with the F-series jackets in the early '80s.
AF

Certainly seems plausible that c1980 would be a point when they'd be introducing new stuff - based on post-Vietnam analysis of existing kit, plus a period of testing prior to general issue being rolled out...

And to add to that, as Atticus has noted in other threads the vintage jackets are all equivalent to "regular" length, or even "short" in some cases. If you typically need "long" length clothing then you might have trouble getting a vintage jacket to fit, or even the Japanese repros which are so authentic that they are short too (at least judging by the measurements I've seen). So the later 100% synthetic semi-civilian jackets might not be as desirable, but they are a bit more generous and the poly insulation doesn't shrink (although I'm sure there's a dry cleaner out there that's so incompetant that they could shrink it).

I've yet to have either of my nylons cleaned.... I think I'll give the cleaners a miss, from what I hear! How did the military do it back in the day? I'm assuming they weren't allowed to go around looking like a bunch of dirty scruffs, nor was there the budget to replace a jacket every time it got dirty!!

 

[Atticus Finch]

Certainly seems plausible that c1980 would be a point when they'd be introducing new stuff - based on post-Vietnam analysis of existing kit, plus a period of testing prior to general issue being rolled out...

Also, the F-series MA-1 was the "ground crew" jacket. So, evidently, poly insulated MA-1s were never designed or intended to be used in fight conditions.

AF

 

[Big J]

Nylon shell with nylon liner around JP4 fumes seems like a static electricity accident waiting to happen, but what do I know.

 

[Big J]

And to add to that, as Atticus has noted in other threads the vintage jackets are all equivalent to "regular" length, or even "short" in some cases. If you typically need "long" length clothing then you might have trouble getting a vintage jacket to fit, or even the Japanese repros which are so authentic that they are short too (at least judging by the measurements I've seen). So the later 100% synthetic semi-civilian jackets might not be as desirable, but they are a bit more generous and the poly insulation doesn't shrink (although I'm sure there's a dry cleaner out there that's so incompetant that they could shrink it).

I'm guessing that the shorter length of issue jackets was in order to prevent interference with the G-suit inflating around the lower body?
I'll get my hands on an issue MA-1, post some pics of me wearing it, then we can all have a good laugh about how short the jacket is/how high my pants are!

 

[Big J]

There is some variation in sizing among the various makers. And, generally speaking, the early 'seventies jackets are a tad larger than those made in the 'fifties and 'sixties. But, yes. I wear a size 48R suit and I need size XL in vintage MA-1s. I would say a size large MA-1 would translate to about a size 44 civilian suit.

AF[/QUOTE

Mr. Finch, I wonder if you'd be so kind as to post a photo of you wearing an issue size XL MA-1 so as to show me the fit? I'd be very grateful.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Mr. Finch, I wonder if you'd be so kind as to post a photo of you wearing an issue size XL MA-1 so as to show me the fit? I'd be very grateful.

I never miss a chance to post a photo of me wearing an old flight jacket! This is a 1961 Skyline, size XL.

AF