Bespoke Simmons Bilt

[ton312]

It might be impossible, given the history, but what if an actual comparison of these jackets, based on the quantifiable measures by which we all judge these jackets, were to occur? That way people could take in all the facts and factors that may sway their choice and make a decision accordingly. I think it's unfair to assume everybody knows the ugly history that ties these two companies together and presenting real information on all of the aspects that goes into deciding who to patronize would be more beneficial.
I'm not saying omit the past but how about a true side by side comparison based on the merit of the final product, build quality, price point, wait time etc...surely there has to be some value in that. People can ultimately decide based on what gives them the best feeling. I'm not new here and I'm not new to collecting leather jackets. I'm sure we all remember my bootrigand thread. I learned quite a bit then. I think rather than pouncing on those who patronize SB for moral reasons, this cause might be better served by demonstrating the differences between the two companies and what makes one more appealing (or not) than the other.
I'm sure many members here have owned from both makers. I know I have. I'd be very happy to share my impressions. I've always been happy with both. I could point to areas of strength and weakness in both as well. Just a thought for those who care.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

It still amazes me how some completely miss the point. Then there are those who do so perhaps accidentally on purpose.

 

[jacketjunkie]

It is a bit tiresome to see every SB thread derail in the same manner, especially because it's the same people exchanging the same arguments over and over again. You would think, by now, both sides should have realized they cannot convince their opposite and just do what they think is right, rather than trying to impose their thinking onto others. I, for one, would not dare to lecture any TFL member on where they have to buy nor on any other moral conduct. It's neither very Christian nor very well-mannered to do so, bluntly speaking.

 

[ton312]

It still amazes me how some completely miss the point. Then there are those who do so perhaps accidentally on purpose.

Your point is a moral/ethical one no? My point is based on a tangible object not an ethereal point of view.

 

[Big J]

Yeah, sure.
Let's put aside their unethical and criminal practices against customers and rivals, and the fact that they threw their manager under the bus when it all came to light, and just, y'know, really just FOCUS on how well they copy those patterns they stole from Aero.
Yeah, sure, that sounds good. LOLZ!

 

[ton312]

Yeah, sure.
Let's put aside their unethical and criminal practices against customers and rivals, and the fact that they threw their manager under the bus when it all came to light, and just, y'know, really just FOCUS on how well they copy those patterns they stole from Aero.
Yeah, sure, that sounds good. LOLZ!

You're right. This is better.

 

[Big J]

Sure!
Let's ignore any part of reality that we don't like, so that we can live in a happy make believe world! What could go wrong? (Don't tell me, I don't want to hear it!).

Hey, AL/SB brought all this on themselves- no one made them do it, they chose to do it. It's their baggage.
People shouldn't slam anyone for remembering.

 

[AllanP]

I've been on other hobby forums where this exact situation happens, a vendor with good products and a very shady and unethical past. Pretty much every time they are brought up, it because a back and forth popcorn fest of the same discussion.

I think in the end I realized that people have different sets of standards of who they want to buy their products from, the information is out there. There's very little use in convincing them to change their moral and ethical stance.

Same goes for a lot of things in life right.

 

[ton312]

Sure!
Let's ignore any part of reality that we don't like, so that we can live in a happy make believe world! What could go wrong? (Don't tell me, I don't want to hear it!).

Hey, AL/SB brought all this on themselves- no one made them do it, they chose to do it. It's their baggage.
People shouldn't slam anyone for remembering.

I agree. Present all the facts. As I said I've owned both makers. A Detroit and a bootlegger. I like them both! The Aero has a shitty main zipper that failed in a year. The SB had a thin spot that should've been found in QC check. I don't think the ethics arguement is enough. (Bartender edit: Please remember that TFL does not permit discussion of contemporary politics! As you were.) Let's put forth something that people will pay attention to and let them be the judge. Quality counts. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[ButteMT61]

So if you cats were ripped off by a member here on TFL who sold you a jacket and did you wrong, you wouldn't post that in their subsequent for sale threads to alert others?
Just curious how far this amnesia would travel if it were personal?

 

[K-Pants]

Let's see if there is a different option: is there a company on planet earth that makes products like Aero and SB and has a competitive price point?

I get the impression from reading FL posts that Aero is really the only option, aside from the occasional mention of Kelso and one or two other high priced options.

Would love a straightforward answer (that does not include some sort of patronizing element to it, thanks).

 

[tropicalbob]

Your point is a moral/ethical one no? My point is based on a tangible object not an ethereal point of view.

Speaking of tangible objects, check out the new Moonshiner design on the Aero site, and then add on to that all of the designs they've come out with in the last few years. If you then look at the SB designs (the ones not stolen from the Calders), the results are laughable. In this little corner of the commercial world we've seen a case in which a team of unethical mediocrities led by a criminal ingrate came very near to destroying the hard work of a talented, dedicated artisan. Happens all the time, I know, but I'd have a problem "looking the other way" just for a discounted jacket, never mind the knowledge that I was wearing something second-rate. I know you feel the same, but some of the newer members probably don't see what all the fuss is about.

 

[ton312]

I've said in another thread I'd never sell or buy anything here or anywhere without the protection of PayPal via an invoice that provides buyer and seller protection. That way if I sell you a box of rabbit fur instead of the leather jacket you bought you are protected and can recoop your purchase. And Hell yeah I'd bitch here. And members burned by SB can as well. I'm not disputing that, tho I do think it's been done to death. At the end of the day I'd like to see this stale discussion somehow take a turn that points to something other than an emotional/ moral/ ethical pissing contest/ high ground preaching post.
PS- Wihout the expert examination I'm pretty sure I unknowingly bought a storse j-106.

 

[tropicalbob]

Let's see if there is a different option: is there a company on planet earth that makes products like Aero and SB and has a competitive price point?

I get the impression from reading FL posts that Aero is really the only option, aside from the occasional mention of Kelso and one or two other high priced options.

Would love a straightforward answer (that does not include some sort of patronizing element to it, thanks).

I'm a bit lost as to your meaning of "patronizing," but Johnson Leathers in San Francisco makes a nice jacket at a very competitive price point.

 

[ton312]

Speaking of tangible objects, check out the new Moonshiner design on the Aero site, and then add on to that all of the designs they've come out with in the last few years. If you then look at the SB designs (the ones not stolen from the Calders), the results are laughable. In this little corner of the commercial world we've seen a case in which a team of unethical mediocrities led by a criminal ingrate came very near to destroying the hard work of a talented, dedicated artisan. Happens all the time, I know, but I'd have a problem "looking the other way" just for a discounted jacket, never mind the knowledge that I was wearing something second-rate. I know you feel the same, but some of the newer members probably don't see what all the fuss is about.

Ok but I've genuinely liked my SB jackets. I understand the past. I don't think either company is going away and I do believe they both make great stuff. I don't think anyone here can say I'm not a fan of Aero. They've made some of the best jackets I've ever owned. So has Vanson, Johnson Leathers, Lost Worlds and SB. Gah. I'm not trying to fight. I've got my FB account for that. I'd just like to see a bit of objectivity. I guess some/most don't believe that is deserved. So that's that.

 

[ton312]

I'm a bit lost as to your meaning of "patronizing," but Johnson Leathers in San Francisco makes a nice jacket at a very competitive price point.

They do. But the price point as of my jacket is right at Aero to be fair.

 

[K-Pants]

I'm a bit lost as to your meaning of "patronizing," but Johnson Leathers in San Francisco makes a nice jacket at a very competitive price point.

Thanks Tropical, for the info.
I was just receiving some patronizing and petty responses earlier from some members and wanted to avoid any further time-waste. Thanks for getting to the point with some solid answers.

 

[ton312]

Thanks Tropical, for the info.
I was just receiving some patronizing and petty responses earlier from some members and wanted to avoid any further time-waste. Thanks for getting to the point with some solid answers.

Here's a Johnson leathers I took delivery of in November. They are incredible and a pleasure to work with. CXL 4oz overdye.

 

[K-Pants]

W

Here's a Johnson leathers I took delivery of in November. They are incredible and a pleasure to work with. CXL 4oz overdye.
View attachment 66241

Wow, that's interesting. Price point on par with Aero's, did you say? Looks like they stole the bootlegger design. More thieves!
But I cannot find that model on their site and it seems most of their products are under Aero's price point.

 

[ton312]

W

Wow, that's interesting. Price point on par with Aero's, did you say? Looks like they stole the bootlegger design. More thieves!

Yeah I'm sure there are many here that think that way. It's based on their flagship m/c jacket, the m-500. The key difference being the button cuffs, half belt and banded waist. Conversely here's my Aero With similar design elements:

Both are very nice jackets with similarities and differences. You won't find most of JL's better work on their site. They will make anything you want off pics or ideas and you are responsible for its success or failure in some regards. They let you drive so it's best you know what you're after.