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[dkstott]

Ben has taken over running Delmonico Hatter since his Dad passed several years ago. Ben's a nice guy and may have gotten the information from his Dad. No telling if any of it ever came from Stetson or a rep.

It was definitely interesting to hear a detailed description of the differences.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Delmonico Hatter in New Haven is having a 15% off sale on everything until the end of July.. Since they're within 30 minutes of me, I like to stop in and see what's going on & see what's also on deep discount sales for walk in only.

I was checking out some hats and asked about the difference between modern Stetson Royal quality and Royal Deluxe.
Ben the current owner told me that standard Royal Quality is strictly Domestic Hare whereas Royal Deluxe is a combination of Domestic & European Hare and "about" 10% Beaver.

Wondering if he's in the know or just spouting off the cuff knowledge.

Ask him for the recipe for Coca-Cola next time he’s there.
For all I know he could be right. I know that the modern Royal quality felt is pretty nasty stuff.

 

[jlee562]

Delmonico Hatter in New Haven is having a 15% off sale on everything until the end of July.. Since they're within 30 minutes of me, I like to stop in and see what's going on & see what's also on deep discount sales for walk in only.

I was checking out some hats and asked about the difference between modern Stetson Royal quality and Royal Deluxe.
Ben the current owner told me that standard Royal Quality is strictly Domestic Hare whereas Royal Deluxe is a combination of Domestic & European Hare and "about" 10% Beaver.

Wondering if he's in the know or just spouting off the cuff knowledge.

The 10% beaver jives with what the Stetson Japan Instagram once posted about the Royal Deluxe Premier Stratoliners.

 

[belfastboy]

Either an educated guess or he was privy to something a contact told him. Stetson doesn't normally divulge their fur content "recipes."

One of my custom hatters replied to me when I asked him the content break down of the beaver/mink blend. He replied ..."they don't divulge it and my cynic's mind thinks that maybe a mink walked across the shop floor the day they felted and that may be the 'mink' content in the blend!"

 

[dkstott]

Perhaps there's a hint of truth in what I was told this morning.

The 10% beaver jives with what the Stetson Japan Instagram once posted about the Royal Deluxe Premier Stratoliners.

 

[Frunobulax]

Perhaps there's a hint of truth in what I was told this morning.

I have a feeling, given Del Monico's history, Ben likely got the "unofficial" skinny from somebody at Stetson. Don't forget that one of their guys jumped to Stetson sales a few years ago.

 

[M Hatman]

Ask him for the recipe for Coca-Cola next time he’s there.
For all I know he could be right. I know that the modern Royal quality felt is pretty nasty stuff.

Somebody on here once said the "Royal" was Dryer Lint.........I thought that, with the addition a few mouse/rat hair shavings thrown in for the "domestic" part.......

I do know by 1971 when Stetson was sold and for a few years after, it and the Royal Deluxe is pretty crappy stuff for some little while from the examples of both I have dared touch through the years.....I think that they BOTH were floor sweepings from the Philadelphia plant when they moved operations to St Louis and needed to keep production going!!!

Only they KEPT the mouse ones......

 

[The Shoe]

I was looking at the inside of my new-to-me vintage Akubra. I noticed a powdery white patch and thought it may be mould or mildew. When I pulled back the sweatband, I discovered it was an 8. Can anyone tell me what the 8 means?

 

[dkstott]

and the ever present Fedora Lounge drumbeat continues; "Unless it's custom, modern hats suck OR go vintage or go home"

My modern Steston and Akubra hats suit me just fine for wearing everyday.

Somebody on here once said the "Royal" was Dryer Lint.........I thought that, with the addition a few mouse/rat hair shavings thrown in for the "domestic" part.......

I do know by 1971 when Stetson was sold and for a few years after, it and the Royal Deluxe is pretty crappy stuff for some little while from the examples of both I have dared touch through the years.....I think that they BOTH were floor sweepings from the Philadelphia plant when they moved operations to St Louis and needed to keep production going!!!

Only they KEPT the mouse ones......

 

[Frunobulax]

and the ever present Fedora Lounge drumbeat continues; "Unless it's custom, modern hats suck OR go vintage or go home"

My modern Steston and Akubra hats suit me just fine for wearing everyday.

Well, it has the virtue of being true. Akubra hats are great, and the best value for the buck bar none, but nobody is going to mistake them for a custom made from better stock and likely better construction. And, like it or not, vintage felt and the manufacturing quality of vintage hats generally surpasses even the best customs available today.

Stetson makes a nice hat, however not for the asking price. I own several Stetsons manufactured over the past few years, and I like them very much. But even the Excellent Quality Stetson I own doesn't meet the level of high quality detail I've seen from customs. You won't find your ribbon tacked on with fishing line, for one thing. Even some hatters have complained that, with Stetson, you have to go through every box when you get a shipment to perform a QC check, and there can be as much as a 50% return rate - and this is before the customer ever sees it. Gus Miller at Batsakes in Cincinnati told them to keep their product to themselves several years ago; you can only get some of the Milans from him, he doesn't carry felt.

Even Borsalino, seemingly the last bastion of quality hat manufacturing, has fallen by the wayside, as documented by @Daniele Tanto over the past several years. The company has been mismanaged, faced bankruptcy, and dealt with other situations that has hurt their bottom line. A commensurate decline in quality has occurred as a result. The hats Borsalino produces now do not compare favorably to even 1970s production hats, not to mention pre-1960 versions.

Yes, we have our biases, but we also believe they are well-founded. If I'm going to put $300+ into a hat, I'm going to put my money where I get the best product, and that's a custom. And since high quality vintages can be had for less than half that...

 

[M Hatman]

View attachment 249362 I was looking at the inside of my new-to-me vintage Akubra. I noticed a powdery white patch and thought it may be mould or mildew. When I pulled back the sweatband, I discovered it was an 8. Can anyone tell me what the 8 means?

I IS chalk......Those are production control and/or lot numbers for the felt/hat body. The secret is not for us but known just to the manufacturer......They would tell us but.........well..... you know the rest!!!!!!

 

[M Hatman]

and the ever present Fedora Lounge drumbeat continues; "Unless it's custom, modern hats suck OR go vintage or go home"
My modern Steston and Akubra hats suit me just fine for wearing everyday.

I too have many modern Stetsons that I like a lot, and especially for everyday wear, and as you say, they also "suit me just fine for wearing everyday." AND if you were to see and feel some of those Stetson hats from the early 70's just after the sellout that I was referring to.....you would have to agree they are cardboard crap.......

BUT, for the balance of my answer, I refer you to what Fruno said quite well above.
Ditto for me.....though I will say...in my size anyway...the High Quality Vintage Hats are NOT less than half the price (not even close).... If only they were........

 

[The Shoe]

and the ever present Fedora Lounge drumbeat continues; "Unless it's custom, modern hats suck OR go vintage or go home"

My modern Steston and Akubra hats suit me just fine for wearing everyday.

Sure, but do you own either custom or vintage? I just got my second vintage and I can tell you that the felt quality leaves my modern Christys’, Habig and Bailey (all of which I like) fur felts for dead. I won’t buy a Stetson, because here in Japan, you can add $100 at least on to the price just for the name.
I also got my first custom (Hornskov) recently - wool because it was cheaper and I was nervous about size ordering online. I was very impressed and plan to buy beaver in the future,
The other thing I would say is that no matter the quality of the hat I post, I have only ever received positive comments from the lounge members. I find they adhere to the old “say something nice or don’t say anything at all”.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

and the ever present Fedora Lounge drumbeat continues; "Unless it's custom, modern hats suck OR go vintage or go home"

My modern Steston and Akubra hats suit me just fine for wearing everyday.

If the FL ever had a mission statement it was something along the lines of the documentation, preservation & restoration of fine vintage hats from a bygone era, & the custom cloning of such fine hats that no longer survive. In large part to the WHAYWT thread & the daily fashion show it has turned into "run what you brung". Newbies often claim they have lurked the FL for yrs before joining, yet some don't seem to know what it's about.

 

[Frunobulax]

If the FL ever had a mission statement it was something along the lines of the documentation, preservation & restoration of fine vintage hats from a bygone era, & the custom cloning of such fine hats that no longer survive. In large part to the WHAYWT thread & the daily fashion show it has turned into "run what you brung". Newbies often claim they have lurked the FL for yrs before joining, yet some don't seem to know what it's about.

Specifically the Golden Era, which in my mind petered out in the early 60s at the latest. Certainly we're interested in how hats have evolved over time, but most of us tend to gravitate towards the styles of that era.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

and the ever present Fedora Lounge drumbeat continues; "Unless it's custom, modern hats suck OR go vintage or go home"

My modern Steston and Akubra hats suit me just fine for wearing everyday.

Not at all. The modern/current Royal De Luxe felt is quite nice even if it’s pretty heavy. It makes for a wonderful winter-weight hat. The modern Stetson Excellent Quality felt is wonderful; equal to or better than many of the vintage felts, and nicer than any of my custom hats made using Winchester’s 100% beaver fur felt (Stetson’s build quality is lousy across the board, but they are still capable of making nice felt). However, in comparison the current Royal felt is harsh, rough, and, well, pretty nasty. It’s not snobbery, it’s quantifiable fact. It’s far worse than either of the felt grades Akubra is currently making. This isn’t to say that you can’t enjoy a hat made from Royal quality felt, but it doesn’t have the qualities most of us look for in felt. Akubra’s felt is a bargain and the hats are decently constructed, but one touch tells you that it’s not in the same league as nice vintage felt.

Some of my favorite hats are made of lower quality felt.

 

[Bamaboots]

Well, it has the virtue of being true. Akubra hats are great, and the best value for the buck bar none, but nobody is going to mistake them for a custom made from better stock and likely better construction. And, like it or not, vintage felt and the manufacturing quality of vintage hats generally surpasses even the best customs available today.

Stetson makes a nice hat, however not for the asking price. I own several Stetsons manufactured over the past few years, and I like them very much. But even the Excellent Quality Stetson I own doesn't meet the level of high quality detail I've seen from customs. You won't find your ribbon tacked on with fishing line, for one thing. Even some hatters have complained that, with Stetson, you have to go through every box when you get a shipment to perform a QC check, and there can be as much as a 50% return rate - and this is before the customer ever sees it. Gus Miller at Batsakes in Cincinnati told them to keep their product to themselves several years ago; you can only get some of the Milans from him, he doesn't carry felt.

Even Borsalino, seemingly the last bastion of quality hat manufacturing, has fallen by the wayside, as documented by @Daniele Tanto over the past several years. The company has been mismanaged, faced bankruptcy, and dealt with other situations that has hurt their bottom line. A commensurate decline in quality has occurred as a result. The hats Borsalino produces now do not compare favorably to even 1970s production hats, not to mention pre-1960 versions.

Yes, we have our biases, but we also believe they are well-founded. If I'm going to put $300+ into a hat, I'm going to put my money where I get the best product, and that's a custom. And since high quality vintages can be had for less than half that...

If the FL ever had a mission statement it was something along the lines of the documentation, preservation & restoration of fine vintage hats from a bygone era, & the custom cloning of such fine hats that no longer survive. In large part to the WHAYWT thread & the daily fashion show it has turned into "run what you brung". Newbies often claim they have lurked the FL for yrs before joining, yet some don't seem to know what it's about.

Two fine posts.

 

[belfastboy]

Not at all. The modern/current Royal De Luxe felt is quite nice even if it’s pretty heavy. It makes for a wonderful winter-weight hat. The modern Stetson Excellent Quality felt is wonderful; equal to or better than many of the vintage felts, and nicer than any of my custom hats made using Winchester’s 100% beaver fur felt (Stetson’s build quality is lousy across the board, but they are still capable of making nice felt). However, in comparison the current Royal felt is harsh, rough, and, well, pretty nasty. It’s not snobbery, it’s quantifiable fact. It’s far worse than either of the felt grades Akubra is currently making. This isn’t to say that you can’t enjoy a hat made from Royal quality felt, but it doesn’t have the qualities most of us look for in felt. Akubra’s felt is a bargain and the hats are decently constructed, but one touch tells you that it’s not in the same league as nice vintage felt.

Some of my favorite hats are made of lower quality felt.

Yep, it is the axiom...."horses for courses". In my collection I own multiple Akubras, a few contemporary Stetsons, some vintage and a ton of customs. They all have a place in my stable of headware (hell I even own baseball caps but don't tell anyone!) My comments towards modern hats (Stetson in particular) is based on the price point as custom hats offer much better value over modern Stetson, Borsalino. For only a few dollars more you get something hand made, better constructed and decent felt quality. Akubra remains the exception as it represents IMHO the best value in a hat.....and there is a solid space for it in the hat marketplace.

 

[Louis Mountbatten]

Sadly, in hats, quality was ALWAYS on the downturn! Once hatmaking in factories really started taking hold of the market, it was always a downward trend as costs rose (but hat prices tried to stay level), wars came and went, and hat wearing declined. Stetson factory hats between 1880 and 1930 are very fine. Wonderful attention to detail, great felt, wonderful sweatbands, sharp and notable liners, but from there it unraveled. The felt gradually got less refined, the sweatbands got cheaper and more boring, and the hand work increasingly shoddy. Stetson was the same as all the other hatmakers, too. They all did it until they closed their doors. The 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s.... it was all a steady march towards the lowest quality.

It really is just the way life happened. So, to act as if realizing this truth is somehow elitist or gauche is hard for me to understand. I mean, facts are facts.

And still, I want more people to buy today's factory felt hats. I'd love to see the industry grow instead of contract. I also think that, even as the quality is at its lowest, factory hats are still serviceable. I've bought them. I use them. And I'll probably buy more. So, I don't "look down" on anyone who buys a contemporary factory hat. So, why would someone who buys a factory hat look down on someone who only buys custom or vintage? We all have our favorites and should not be attacked for that.

Now... about those stupid baseball caps.... (ha, ha, just joking)

 

[Frunobulax]

Sadly, in hats, quality was ALWAYS on the downturn! Once hatmaking in factories really started taking hold of the market, it was always a downward trend as costs rose (but hat prices tried to stay level), wars came and went, and hat wearing declined. Stetson factory hats between 1880 and 1930 are very fine. Wonderful attention to detail, great felt, wonderful sweatbands, sharp and notable liners, but from there it unraveled. The felt gradually got less refined, the sweatbands got cheaper and more boring, and the hand work increasingly shoddy. Stetson was the same as all the other hatmakers, too. They all did it until they closed their doors. The 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s.... it was all a steady march towards the lowest quality.

It really is just the way life happened. So, to act as if realizing this truth is somehow elitist or gauche is hard for me to understand. I mean, facts are facts.

And still, I want more people to buy today's factory felt hats. I'd love to see the industry grow instead of contract. I also think that, even as the quality is at its lowest, factory hats are still serviceable. I've bought them. I use them. And I'll probably buy more. So, I don't "look down" on anyone who buys a contemporary factory hat. So, why would someone who buys a factory hat look down on someone who only buys custom or vintage? We all have our favorites and should not be attacked for that.

Now... about those stupid baseball caps.... (ha, ha, just joking)

The only exception I would take is correlating mass production with lower quality. I'm channeling @mayserwegener here, but there was a time when the factories (particularly European) offered very high quality because they had vast resources and superior expertise. Some of the elite finishes, such as velour, etc, were best done by the larger factories.

And felt quality suffered some after Mercury was banned from use in the 30s.